Author Topic: Patent Falsehoods by happenby  (Read 1506 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Patent Falsehoods by happenby
« on: May 20, 2018, 02:37:20 AM »
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  • .
    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.
    FALSE STATEMENTS -- All by one member: happenby 
    [Followed by my comments, sometimes in brackets] 
    ______________________________________________________________________
    .
    The sun leaves plenty of evidence it moves over a flat earth when it leaves a trail of light on the ocean from the shore at sunset which is traceable back to the sun, something impossible if earth were a globe because light doesn't bend. *
    .
    In fact, the sun and moon faces are always facing toward earth.  We never see the backside of either. *
    .
    Gravity is a scam, unproven, unreasonable, untenable.  How can something draw all objects to itself and at the same time fail to do so all the time?  The idea of antipodes, people that walk upside down on one side of the earth as opposed to others is condemned by the Church.
    .
    The Church maintains the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth. Catholics should not summarily dismiss these things when their understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth do not add up for them.
    .
    Global geocentrism simply doesn't work.  Where is the firmament on this so-called globe? *
    .
    If the sun is indeed inside such a dome structure as scripture describes, then the dome is at least 100 million miles away in order to accommodate the distant sun?  Globe earth is a constant contradiction.
    .
    God's description of flat earth denies the globe and anyone familiar with scripture knows it.  The more people deny flat earth, the more they show their ignorance of scripture. *
    .
    No backside of the sun, bud.  Proven a myriad of times by many people.  I'd post a video, but ppl don't seem to view them.  Get yourself a Nikon P900 and sun lenses and view for yourself.  There are dots on the sun that rotate around like a wheel but never disappear.  The sun turns like a wheel with its face facing earth. *
    .
    So far, I've not seen one proof for round earth that holds up to scrutiny, yet they claim 50.  No empirical proof.  No verifiable experiments. No personal hands on...  Just lots of talk, parroting and videos supporting NASA, a freemasonic institution bent on destruction of the sciences.  The answer is obvious.  Earth is not a globe. *
    .
    Planets are not worlds, so they aren't globes.  The so-called planets, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, etc, are wandering STARS. *
    .
    Without evidence, something by way of science... or even empirical or personal proof, there is no case for globe earth... there isn't even one solid proof! *
    .
    Sailors always used geometry and plane sailing. By definition plane sailing is sailing on a course plotted without reference to the curvature of the earth. They never carried globes, but plotted on flat maps.
    .
    Tradition teaches there is a firmament. Solid dome, like a tent. Water is above the dome and below the dome. Earth below the dome. Sun/moon/stars inside the dome. *
    .
    Surface of water never curves, small drops excepted. Water must be contained and it's surface always settles flat. It is impossible for water to wrap around the outside of a ball. *
    .
    It remains that no curvature of the earth has ever been demonstrated. Further, things like lighthouses, gyros, sundials, bubble levels, compasses, astrolabes and sextants were developed by people with the horizontal plane in mind. For good reason. Earth is a plane. *
    .
    If you blow a dandelion seed out of your hands, a substance just barely heavier than the air, it will float away and slowly but eventually fall to the ground. And if you drop an anvil from your hands, something much heavier than the air, it will quickly and directly fall straight to the ground.

    Now, this has absolutely nothing to do with “gravity.” The fact that light things rise up and heavy things fall down is simply a natural property of weight. *
    .
    The mechanical ability of a sextant to view by line of site, with reflection of mirrors (another direct line of site) with angles provided by the tool for determining position actually makes no sense whatsoever if the earth were a globe.  All horizontal and vertical lines of site and direct reflections from mirrors would be in error when applied to a curved object.  
    .
    In fact, the arc [Naut.mi. = minute of arc at the equator] is a degree of a circle [actually not a degree but a minute of arc] used in relation to angles and lines to denote distance and has zero to do with a globe earth. *
    .
    Now that we have well established that a sextant is designed to work with parallel lines, reflecting mirrors, line of sight and degrees of an arc, (not the globe earth,) that they measure planes, and that the measurements are recorded on a grid map, I think its safe to say, along with gyros, astrolabes, compasses, bubble levels etc, the earth measured by such things is proven not a globe. 
    .
    Ok, do show, anything at all, that proves curve commensurate with a 24,000 mile ball.  Your own personal tests, someone else's tests, photos, whatever.  Please only untouched, non cgi, not photoshopped evidence.  But I'll take anything at all.   No one to date has produced this evidence and I've been doing flat earth for almost 10 years now. Why?  Because they know it doesn't exist. *
    .
    We know for certain that ships do not disappear over the curve.  We know for certain that the horizon rises to eye level no matter how high one goes, and that on a ball, the horizon would actually descend in order to be a ball... We know for certain that there is a hard dome above earth forming a tent like structure over the earth with water above the dome. *
    .
    The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth. 
    .
    Verifying measurements to the sun/moon can be done by anyone at all and most certainly do not add up to millions of miles for sun or hundreds of thousands of miles for the moon.  Scripture alone should suffice to prove sun and moon are in the firmament, relatively small and nearby. *
    .
    Geocentrism is flat earth.  There is no such thing as a globe hanging in space.  This fallacy came about when Catholics realized earth was not moving and assumed it was a globe.  The earth has a foundation.  The globe is not founded, but admittedly dangling. *
    .
    Modern Geocentrism, (MG) with its stationary globe hanging in space is a theory incompatible with scripture and historical Geocentric cosmology. *
    .
    So BUMPH, as tradition reveals, earth is flat.
    .
    The Church has spoken. Earth is flat and geocentric. *
    .
     Polaris can be seen, however, up to approximately 23.5 degrees South latitude. *
    .
    "It has often been urged that the earth must be a globe, because the stars in the southern ‘hemisphere’ move round a south polar star 
    [strawman]; in the same way that those of the north revolve round the northern pole star. This is another instance of the sacrifice of truth, and denial of the evidence of our senses for the purpose of supporting a theory which is in every sense false and unnatural." * 
    [A referenced quote, but false nonetheless]
    .
    The convergence of sun and earth is known as sunrise and sunset.  When the sun goes beyond these points, being too low to be resolved by the eye from that level, it thus disappears. *
    .
     I talk about flat earth where ever I go. Its been a long and difficult haul, but we need Catholics to rebuild what is necessarily Catholic! We need people to go through Church documents, read saints and unearth gold. And believe me, its out in them there hills!  We need researchers, youtubers, teachers, apologists, priests who can handle the heat, brave moms and dads! * 
    [Flat-earthism has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism.]
    .
    Nothing is true where the terrain is said to be a globe.  The horizon is not horizontal.  Level horizon is not level but curved. There is no up on a globe, only out.  No down, no positional east or west. *
    .
    Scripture has most certainly defined the shape of the earth... its references and descriptions of earth make round earth totally impossible. *
    .
    All the lines and polka dots in the world will never make earth a globe. *
    .
    If indeed there is a "south pole", how can that one point or pole be demonstrated with a compass?  The needle arrow points north only.  The the opposite side of the needle, when turning around the north, draws a circle in the outer regions showing there is only one pole--north.  The southern region is as scripture describes, "encompassed", as in a "circle" of land within the great deep.  The outer regions have not yet been fully circumnavigated, but the compass and scripture agree that earth is not a globe. *
    [All completely false -- The compass does point south with the opposite end of the same arrow that points north; There are two poles, north and south; Scripture has nothing to do with this discussion;  The entire earth has been circumnavigated every which way; The compass does not conflict with scripture but that's irrelevant.]
    .
    Actually, I agree with the fact that there is a directional south.  But the compass still does not work on a globe, and will only point to true south in very limited circumstances because the back end of a compass draws a circle as one goes around the north. This is simply a fact regarding the compass.  But none of this is inconsistent with a flat earth.  A compass, held flat at the equator can never point to the north pole on a globe because the needle will be perpendicular to north while one holds it standing on any side of the ball, proving that earth is not a globe. *
    [You were obviously never a girl scout because you have no idea how a compass is used or how it works.]
    .
    Please. A compass works within the magnetic fields of EARTH.  The north "pole" to be exact.  Necessarily, were anyone to locate the north pole with a compass, they would have to be on the same level as the north pole, or the compass wouldn't work, since the compass necessarily must be held level. Held level at the equator on a globe, a compass leaves a perpendicular line that points out in space, not to the pole. *
    [You really are clueless when it comes to compass use.]
    .
    No one is certain exactly what the flat earth map looks really looks like.
    [Correct.]  Nevertheless, there are so many proofs of flat earth.
    [Wrong.]  Scripture and the Church have been squarely in the flat earth camp since the beginning. *
    [Absolutely wrong.]
    .
    The fact Shaq showed back up to undo what he said is in itself laughable... Scripture is clear.  Earth is flat. *
    [False. Scripture has nothing to say about the earth being "flat" nor does Scripture have any relevance to the topic.]
    .
    St. Augustine, Severian, Bshp of Gabala, St. Jerome, Cosmas, Methodius, St. John Chrysostom and many others confirmed earth is flat and geocentric, a snow globe, as it were... Ball geocentrism, supported by Sungenis-esque pagan authorities is no proof of anything except flat earth. *
    .
    There is a lot to know about flat earth. *
    [How about this one:  Flat-earthers have no model therefore they have no theory. Period. What else needs to be known?]
    .
    It is impossible that Jerusalem is the center of the earth if earth is a ball. *
    .
    There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. *
    [False. The so-called Book of Enoch is apocryphal and could not have survived the Flood.]
    .
     Earth is not a globe. *
    [False. Earth is absolutely globe-like.]
    .
    Another ridiculous notion: God can do anything... so He does the ridiculous.  The extremes global earth defenders go to maintain the pagan theory of heliocentrism [strawman] is an embarrassment--to them.  Scripture, the saints and the Church, not to mention the reverse testimony of the pagans, teach that earth is not a globe. *
    [You said it: another ridiculous notion, that earth is not a globe. I guess you can be right sometimes!]    
    .
    Rainbows, northern lights and sundogs appear to reflect aspects of the dome as well. *
    [These have nothing to do with your fantasy solid material firmament which does not exist.]
    .
    Catholic perspective of flat earth from the ancients has been shared here and scientific proofs prove flat earth. 
    [Incorrect.] 
    Just picked up another traditional priest a couple days ago. FE is gaining ground in many traditional Catholic circles. Its only a matter of time... *
    [Flat-earthism has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Catholicism. End of story.]
    .
    There are scientific proofs for flat earth numbering in the hundreds.  
    [Incorrect. There are NONE.]
    Not to mention the teachings from scripture, popes, saints and the Church backing up the obvious geocentric nature of earth.  Scripture details clearly that there is a firmament dividing heaven and earth and that the lights in the firmament move over and across the face of the earth and therefore cannot possibly shine from hundreds of thousands of miles or millions of miles away.  Must be an awfully big dome to cover for that distant sun! Even if you reject truth for who knows what reason, you know scripture teaches about the firmament and the movement of the sun over the face of the earth.  
    [Wrong -- Scripture has exactly NOTHING to do with the question.]
    Conversely, there are no proofs for round earth, except lies from Freemasons and pagans throughout history. *
    [Wrong. Freemasons are irrelevant. Reality dictates itself. There are proofs everywhere we look, but we have to look.]
    .
    The body of Our Lady is material and It is in heaven.  Heaven is a place.  Material place. *
    [Incorrect. Heaven is a non-material reality where the saints there do not have their bodies -- YET. Our Lady is the exception.]
    .
    God is both spiritual AND material. Materially speaking, His name is Jesus. Mary is material. Heaven is a place that houses both persons, glorified material.  Heaven sits above the firmament as described by the saints and scripture and it is a material thing. *
    [Incorrect. God is spiritual. Read the Summa. Our Lord and Our Lady are both spiritual and material, but not material as we know it. Heaven is a spiritual place which will be REMADE after the Final Judgment and there will be a new earth the nature of which we cannot know now.]
    .
    [Perhaps this is the basis of your problem, happenby, you don't know anything about theology or eschatology.] 


    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 09:54:51 AM »
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  • Another globetard races over to start a flat earth thread. They just can't stay sway from the ghetto, they love it SO much.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 09:56:39 AM »
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  • .
    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.
    FALSE STATEMENTS -- All by one member: happenby
    [Followed by my comments, sometimes in brackets]
    ______________________________________________________________________
    .
    The sun leaves plenty of evidence it moves over a flat earth when it leaves a trail of light on the ocean from the shore at sunset which is traceable back to the sun, something impossible if earth were a globe because light doesn't bend. *
    .
    In fact, the sun and moon faces are always facing toward earth.  We never see the backside of either. *
    .
    Gravity is a scam, unproven, unreasonable, untenable.  How can something draw all objects to itself and at the same time fail to do so all the time?  The idea of antipodes, people that walk upside down on one side of the earth as opposed to others is condemned by the Church.
    .
    The Church maintains the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth. Catholics should not summarily dismiss these things when their understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth do not add up for them.
    .
    Global geocentrism simply doesn't work.  Where is the firmament on this so-called globe? *
    .
    If the sun is indeed inside such a dome structure as scripture describes, then the dome is at least 100 million miles away in order to accommodate the distant sun?  Globe earth is a constant contradiction.
    .
    God's description of flat earth denies the globe and anyone familiar with scripture knows it.  The more people deny flat earth, the more they show their ignorance of scripture. *
    .
    No backside of the sun, bud.  Proven a myriad of times by many people.  I'd post a video, but ppl don't seem to view them.  Get yourself a Nikon P900 and sun lenses and view for yourself.  There are dots on the sun that rotate around like a wheel but never disappear.  The sun turns like a wheel with its face facing earth. *
    .
    So far, I've not seen one proof for round earth that holds up to scrutiny, yet they claim 50.  No empirical proof.  No verifiable experiments. No personal hands on...  Just lots of talk, parroting and videos supporting NASA, a freemasonic institution bent on destruction of the sciences.  The answer is obvious.  Earth is not a globe. *
    .
    Planets are not worlds, so they aren't globes.  The so-called planets, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, etc, are wandering STARS. *
    .
    Without evidence, something by way of science... or even empirical or personal proof, there is no case for globe earth... there isn't even one solid proof! *
    .
    Sailors always used geometry and plane sailing. By definition plane sailing is sailing on a course plotted without reference to the curvature of the earth. They never carried globes, but plotted on flat maps.
    .
    Tradition teaches there is a firmament. Solid dome, like a tent. Water is above the dome and below the dome. Earth below the dome. Sun/moon/stars inside the dome. *
    .
    Surface of water never curves, small drops excepted. Water must be contained and it's surface always settles flat. It is impossible for water to wrap around the outside of a ball. *
    .
    It remains that no curvature of the earth has ever been demonstrated. Further, things like lighthouses, gyros, sundials, bubble levels, compasses, astrolabes and sextants were developed by people with the horizontal plane in mind. For good reason. Earth is a plane. *
    .
    If you blow a dandelion seed out of your hands, a substance just barely heavier than the air, it will float away and slowly but eventually fall to the ground. And if you drop an anvil from your hands, something much heavier than the air, it will quickly and directly fall straight to the ground.

    Now, this has absolutely nothing to do with “gravity.” The fact that light things rise up and heavy things fall down is simply a natural property of weight. *
    .
    The mechanical ability of a sextant to view by line of site, with reflection of mirrors (another direct line of site) with angles provided by the tool for determining position actually makes no sense whatsoever if the earth were a globe.  All horizontal and vertical lines of site and direct reflections from mirrors would be in error when applied to a curved object.  
    .
    In fact, the arc [Naut.mi. = minute of arc at the equator] is a degree of a circle [actually not a degree but a minute of arc] used in relation to angles and lines to denote distance and has zero to do with a globe earth. *
    .
    Now that we have well established that a sextant is designed to work with parallel lines, reflecting mirrors, line of sight and degrees of an arc, (not the globe earth,) that they measure planes, and that the measurements are recorded on a grid map, I think its safe to say, along with gyros, astrolabes, compasses, bubble levels etc, the earth measured by such things is proven not a globe.
    .
    Ok, do show, anything at all, that proves curve commensurate with a 24,000 mile ball.  Your own personal tests, someone else's tests, photos, whatever.  Please only untouched, non cgi, not photoshopped evidence.  But I'll take anything at all.   No one to date has produced this evidence and I've been doing flat earth for almost 10 years now. Why?  Because they know it doesn't exist. *
    .
    We know for certain that ships do not disappear over the curve.  We know for certain that the horizon rises to eye level no matter how high one goes, and that on a ball, the horizon would actually descend in order to be a ball... We know for certain that there is a hard dome above earth forming a tent like structure over the earth with water above the dome. *
    .
    The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.
    .
    Verifying measurements to the sun/moon can be done by anyone at all and most certainly do not add up to millions of miles for sun or hundreds of thousands of miles for the moon.  Scripture alone should suffice to prove sun and moon are in the firmament, relatively small and nearby. *
    .
    Geocentrism is flat earth.  There is no such thing as a globe hanging in space.  This fallacy came about when Catholics realized earth was not moving and assumed it was a globe.  The earth has a foundation.  The globe is not founded, but admittedly dangling. *
    .
    Modern Geocentrism, (MG) with its stationary globe hanging in space is a theory incompatible with scripture and historical Geocentric cosmology. *
    .
    So BUMPH, as tradition reveals, earth is flat.
    .
    The Church has spoken. Earth is flat and geocentric. *
    .
    Polaris can be seen, however, up to approximately 23.5 degrees South latitude. *
    .
    "It has often been urged that the earth must be a globe, because the stars in the southern ‘hemisphere’ move round a south polar star
    [strawman]; in the same way that those of the north revolve round the northern pole star. This is another instance of the sacrifice of truth, and denial of the evidence of our senses for the purpose of supporting a theory which is in every sense false and unnatural." *
    [A referenced quote, but false nonetheless]
    .
    The convergence of sun and earth is known as sunrise and sunset.  When the sun goes beyond these points, being too low to be resolved by the eye from that level, it thus disappears. *
    .
    I talk about flat earth where ever I go. Its been a long and difficult haul, but we need Catholics to rebuild what is necessarily Catholic! We need people to go through Church documents, read saints and unearth gold. And believe me, its out in them there hills!  We need researchers, youtubers, teachers, apologists, priests who can handle the heat, brave moms and dads! *
    [Flat-earthism has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism.]
    .
    Nothing is true where the terrain is said to be a globe.  The horizon is not horizontal.  Level horizon is not level but curved. There is no up on a globe, only out.  No down, no positional east or west. *
    .
    Scripture has most certainly defined the shape of the earth... its references and descriptions of earth make round earth totally impossible. *
    .
    All the lines and polka dots in the world will never make earth a globe. *
    .
    If indeed there is a "south pole", how can that one point or pole be demonstrated with a compass?  The needle arrow points north only.  The the opposite side of the needle, when turning around the north, draws a circle in the outer regions showing there is only one pole--north.  The southern region is as scripture describes, "encompassed", as in a "circle" of land within the great deep.  The outer regions have not yet been fully circumnavigated, but the compass and scripture agree that earth is not a globe. *
    [All completely false -- The compass does point south with the opposite end of the same arrow that points north; There are two poles, north and south; Scripture has nothing to do with this discussion;  The entire earth has been circumnavigated every which way; The compass does not conflict with scripture but that's irrelevant.]
    .
    Actually, I agree with the fact that there is a directional south.  But the compass still does not work on a globe, and will only point to true south in very limited circumstances because the back end of a compass draws a circle as one goes around the north. This is simply a fact regarding the compass.  But none of this is inconsistent with a flat earth.  A compass, held flat at the equator can never point to the north pole on a globe because the needle will be perpendicular to north while one holds it standing on any side of the ball, proving that earth is not a globe. *
    [You were obviously never a girl scout because you have no idea how a compass is used or how it works.]
    .
    Please. A compass works within the magnetic fields of EARTH.  The north "pole" to be exact.  Necessarily, were anyone to locate the north pole with a compass, they would have to be on the same level as the north pole, or the compass wouldn't work, since the compass necessarily must be held level. Held level at the equator on a globe, a compass leaves a perpendicular line that points out in space, not to the pole. *
    [You really are clueless when it comes to compass use.]
    .
    No one is certain exactly what the flat earth map looks really looks like.
    [Correct.]  Nevertheless, there are so many proofs of flat earth.
    [Wrong.]  Scripture and the Church have been squarely in the flat earth camp since the beginning. *
    [Absolutely wrong.]
    .
    The fact Shaq showed back up to undo what he said is in itself laughable... Scripture is clear.  Earth is flat. *
    [False. Scripture has nothing to say about the earth being "flat" nor does Scripture have any relevance to the topic.]
    .
    St. Augustine, Severian, Bshp of Gabala, St. Jerome, Cosmas, Methodius, St. John Chrysostom and many others confirmed earth is flat and geocentric, a snow globe, as it were... Ball geocentrism, supported by Sungenis-esque pagan authorities is no proof of anything except flat earth. *
    .
    There is a lot to know about flat earth. *
    [How about this one:  Flat-earthers have no model therefore they have no theory. Period. What else needs to be known?]
    .
    It is impossible that Jerusalem is the center of the earth if earth is a ball. *
    .
    There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. *
    [False. The so-called Book of Enoch is apocryphal and could not have survived the Flood.]
    .
    Earth is not a globe. *
    [False. Earth is absolutely globe-like.]
    .
    Another ridiculous notion: God can do anything... so He does the ridiculous.  The extremes global earth defenders go to maintain the pagan theory of heliocentrism [strawman] is an embarrassment--to them.  Scripture, the saints and the Church, not to mention the reverse testimony of the pagans, teach that earth is not a globe. *
    [You said it: another ridiculous notion, that earth is not a globe. I guess you can be right sometimes!]  
    .
    Rainbows, northern lights and sundogs appear to reflect aspects of the dome as well. *
    [These have nothing to do with your fantasy solid material firmament which does not exist.]
    .
    Catholic perspective of flat earth from the ancients has been shared here and scientific proofs prove flat earth.
    [Incorrect.]
    Just picked up another traditional priest a couple days ago. FE is gaining ground in many traditional Catholic circles. Its only a matter of time... *
    [Flat-earthism has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Catholicism. End of story.]
    .
    There are scientific proofs for flat earth numbering in the hundreds.  
    [Incorrect. There are NONE.]
    Not to mention the teachings from scripture, popes, saints and the Church backing up the obvious geocentric nature of earth.  Scripture details clearly that there is a firmament dividing heaven and earth and that the lights in the firmament move over and across the face of the earth and therefore cannot possibly shine from hundreds of thousands of miles or millions of miles away.  Must be an awfully big dome to cover for that distant sun! Even if you reject truth for who knows what reason, you know scripture teaches about the firmament and the movement of the sun over the face of the earth.  
    [Wrong -- Scripture has exactly NOTHING to do with the question.]
    Conversely, there are no proofs for round earth, except lies from Freemasons and pagans throughout history. *
    [Wrong. Freemasons are irrelevant. Reality dictates itself. There are proofs everywhere we look, but we have to look.]
    .
    The body of Our Lady is material and It is in heaven.  Heaven is a place.  Material place. *
    [Incorrect. Heaven is a non-material reality where the saints there do not have their bodies -- YET. Our Lady is the exception.]
    .
    God is both spiritual AND material. Materially speaking, His name is Jesus. Mary is material. Heaven is a place that houses both persons, glorified material.  Heaven sits above the firmament as described by the saints and scripture and it is a material thing. *
    [Incorrect. God is spiritual. Read the Summa. Our Lord and Our Lady are both spiritual and material, but not material as we know it. Heaven is a spiritual place which will be REMADE after the Final Judgment and there will be a new earth the nature of which we cannot know now.]
    .
    [Perhaps this is the basis of your problem, happenby, you don't know anything about theology or eschatology.]
    This post seems a little obsessive to me.

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 03:01:34 PM »
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  • You are picking on happenby because you can't stand up for yourself. The memes are destroying you.

    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 09:10:26 PM »
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  • .
    3 replies but zero substance: need I say more?
    .
    Flat-earthism is devoid of substance.
    .
    More patent falsehoods by happenby............
    .
    .
    Since it is impossible for Jerusalem to be in the center of the ball (in hell as it were) earth is not a globe.

    Just because someone has no answers to their twisted notions doesn't mean the answers aren't available, provable, logical and true.  Earth is not a globe.  Catholic teaching.  Scientific fact.  Obvious reality. *
    [Flat-earthers have no answers, but here is the claim their non-answers are "provable, logical and true" = NONSENSE. Earth is spheroid. Catholic teaching is not relevant for physical reality, the Church doesn't teach what can be measured without Church doctrine. Flat-earthism is not "scientific fact." Flat-earthism is not "obvious reality."]
    .
    In the thirteenth century an ecclesiastical writer much in vogue, the monk Caesarious of Heisterbach declared, "As the heart in the midst of the body, so is Jerusalem situated in the midst of our in habited earth,--so it was that Christ was crucified at the center of the earth." *
    [Before Columbus discovered America its existence was unknown, so too Australia's - and you're basing your "doctrine" on their ignorance! How ignorant of you!]
    .
    Scripture describes a flat earth CONSITENTLY.  Science supports a flat earth.  Reason and experience prove a flat earth.  There is nothing that even begins to demonstrate a ball earth.  Earth is flat.  *
    [False. Scripture has not one mention of "flat earth." Nothing in science supports "flat" earth. Reason and experience prove a spherical earth. Earth is not "flat."]
    .
    The science so-called you proclaim has been refuted.  Nothing even remotely Catholic comes from you. Since against the truth there is no argument, all creation speaks clearly, earth is not a globe. We can continue this for the benefit of readers, but really, you lost this argument the minute you decided to take it personal, swatting about with unrelated nonsense that adds up to negative black holes of conjecture in contention with truth. *
    [First you accuse me of deciding "to take it personal" (sic), then you proceed to take it personally yourself. Hypocrisy. All creation speaks clearly -- that earth is spherical, or globe-like.]
    .
    The shape of the earth is a spiritual matter because it was revealed to us in scripture. *
    [Incorrect. The shape of the earth is not a "spiritual matter" because spiritual truth cannot be contradicted by physical reality. The shape of the earth is not "revealed to us in Scripture." You're confusing the Bible with the Koran!]
    .
    Scripture is clear for those who read it, earth is flat.  The Church teaches it. Science confirms it. Only the ill-informed, blind or confirmed ɠƖobaƖıst/pagan denies it.  There is not one single teaching that the earth is a moving ball.  Nor that it is a hanging ball in mid-air. Scripture says the earth has a foundation.  A firm foundation.  Pillars.  Bounds. A firmament that divides the corporal on earth from the spiritual in heaven above, and also within that hardened dome, the sun, moon and stars move.  Scripture teaches that stars have fallen to earth and that stars will fall to earth, an absurd notion to those who believe stars are hundreds of times larger than earth and made of earthly elements like rock. The saints teach there is a center on earth, which is Jerusalem. They teach there are no people walking upside down relative to the rest.  These are Catholic teachings, and cannot be denied without demonstrating a loss of Faith in truth.  Those who persist in the fallacy of a ball earth are deniers of God and His Word. *
    [Shangri-La fantasy land! Scripture does not say "earth is flat." The Church does not teach that. Science does not confirm it but refutes it. "ɠƖobaƖıst" is irrelevant, even Matthew has said so. Space surrounding the earth is not "air" it's a vacuum. The firmament is the entire space to the nearest stars which contains our atmosphere, the air we breath and live in, where the rain comes from, the water held back by this firmament, according to Catholic Church commentary on Scripture. Stars falling to earth is either allegory for priests losing the Faith, or meteors which appear as stars thus the term "shooting stars" but they're tremendously smaller than actual stars even though they shine more brightly to us on earth. Catholic teaching cannot be in contradiction to physical observed reality. You make a mockery of the Faith!]
    .
    Ha ha, using this example, with the 93,000,000 miles distance to the heliocentric sun, the angles for said triangle (specifically the smallest angle near the sun, would not even produce a triangle, but a straight line, nearly parallel to the next side of the "triangle" for several million miles, if not the entire distances to earth. *
    [You don't even know what a triangle is! It's not a "straight line." Go back to school and take level 1 Geometry and learn something, IF you can pass the class. Probably FAIL.]
    .
    The only retardation here is the denial of flat earth seen by the senses, denial of Church teaching, denial of scripture, denial of Fathers and Saints.  Either these ɠƖobaƖısts cannot read, or retardation applies.  *
    [Manifest hypocrisy -- invective, insult, taking it personally. Your obstreperous nescience is palpable! There is no "flat" earth seen by the senses, unless you're talking about looking at your CGI fake pictures, like those of the silly model you say don't have.]
    .
    One wonders where these Baal earthers come up with this stuff.  What's funny is that they go to the ends of the internet to find something to show their understanding while they refuse to understand.  And refuse Church teaching. *
    [More phony hypocrisy. Invective, insult and falsehood. Your obstreperous nescience is palpable! At least you're consistent -- consistently wrong!]
    .
    Scripture expounds in many places all kinds of ways about the form of the earth, always incompatible with a ball.  Earth is described as a stamp under a seal, with pillars, having a foundation, a dome, with a face, breadth and width, four corners, celestials under the dome, hell below and Jerusalem in the middle...  And if that isn't enough, its crazy peculiar that people insist everyone is walking upside down in relation to each other and that water surface curves to conform to the outside of a ball... Then you say silly stuff like, "Every time the moon rises in the east, it shows us the earth is not flat" which doesn't prove earth is not flat, but that someone has not fully considered the the subject at all. *
    [Incorrect. Scripture has nothing definitive regarding the shape of the earth because it is speaking figuratively. Nobody goes to Scripture for facts regarding the material world that we can objectively observe definitively and conclusively first hand. "Up" and "down" are precise directions relevant for specific locations applied to a standard such as the geoid or a particular ellipsoid, and are not universal directions. When the moon rises in the east everyone who can see it on planet earth sees the same phase, every time, without fail, which disproves the "flat" earth fantasy, as a matter of fact.]
    .
    Eclipses are calculated in a way that doesn't even include the shape of the earth, but by calculating the patterns of sun and moon and stars in the sky. *
    [Absolutely, unequivocally FALSE. Eclipses cannot in any way whatsoever be predicted accurately without taking the shape of the earth into account. Flat-earthers have no ability to predict solar eclipses because their obstreperous nescience and willful blindness to the truth keeps them ignorant of the essential facts and relationships of the sun-moon-earth.]
    .
    The fact that Cosmas fought so vigilantly for flat earth using scripture, and that the pagans used their sorcery and demonic philosophies to prove round earth, one can easily come to the conclusion that it is absolutely necessary to believe a scripture's literal explanation of flat earth. *
    [You mean the Cosmas who was accused of heresy, that Cosmas, the vigilant heretic? You're basing your "absolutely necessary" flat-earthism on the work of an accused heretic? How many heretics are your mentors, anyway?]
    .
    Catholic teachings are incompatible with a globe.  The firmament is incompatible with a globe.  There is no such thing as space. Rockets never went outside the firmament.  How can oxygen starved engines operate in so-called space?  How does a vacuum exist without being contained?  *
    [Incorrect. Catholic teachings are 100% compatible with a globe-like earth. The firmament is 100% compatible too.  Space is real. Rockets go into space which is still part of the firmament. Rocket engines are not "oxygen starved" because if they need oxygen that is brought along with the rocket. A vacuum exists outside earth's atmosphere.]
    .
    Flat earthers are humble enough to know what they don't know... The facts proving earth is flat are self evident: There's no curve. Ever. Water doesn't conform to the outside of a sphere. Ships don't disappear behind a "curve". Travel instruments like astrolabes, compasses, light houses and gyroscopes do not work on a curved surface, but are entirely dependant (sic) upon level, perpendicular/horizontal or straight lines of sight.  The horizon is always horizontal to upright man and is therefore not an arc. The words sea LEVEL tell us a lot.  Elevation (based on the word level) is measured with instruments that work on a plane, not on a curve.  Sundials are quite flat so the shadow of the passing sun leaves a shadow that determines time of day and they don't work on a curved surface. *
    [False. Flat-earthers are anything but humble. They're ignorant, proud, pompous and indignant; obstreperously nescient, and proud of it. There are no "facts proving earth is flat." There is a curve on the surface of the earth. Always. Waters of the ocean all conform to the earth's curvature. Ships disappear behind this curvature. Instruments work just fine on a curved surface.  The horizon is horizontal but it is lower than the observer unless he is in a local depression or valley so that he has to look up higher to see the horizon above his level. Sea level is a localized term and only relevant for a short distance away from the measured place. Elevation is related to a standard, either the geoid or a particular ellipsoid. You would be unable to qualify for a job in meteorology. Sundials are flat because they are SMALL. They work just fine on a curved surface. You're simply wrong.]
    .
    [A very pertinent question by obscurus here which happenby rambles on replying to, concluding that outside flat-earthism there is no salvation! See for yourself!] *
    Quote from: obscurus on July 12, 2017, 02:12:45 PM
    Quote
    I could be wrong but I almost get the impression that Flat Earthers are in reality sophisticated trollers. If they are not then I must ask how does any of this relate to the Faith? Why are you so strident in your beliefs?
    The entire paganization of earth is utterly dependant [sic] on heliocentrism/spherical earth.  The big boys running this operation don't call themselves "ɠƖobaƖısts" for nothing. The sphere itself is the basis for relativity and consequently, for lies... Denying what God taught in scripture, what the Catholic Fathers taught, what the Church taught, then it becomes clear, this is a matter of faith, and therefore salvation. *
    [Flat-earthers have nothing to fear but the sphere itself.]
    .
    In 'outer space', stars are said to be enormous and Venus and Mars are said to be planets of terrain, things easily proven false with a simple camera. *
    [You need more than your camera. You have to know how to use it, too. Take a class in astronomy to find out what you've been doing wrong all this time. But keep in mind you'll have to learn the earth isn't "flat!"]
    .
    The geocentric system is necessarily a flat earth cosmology. *
    [Incorrect. The geocentric system is inherently a spheroid earth cosmology. Against a fact there is no argument.]
    .
    All scientific proof shows earth is flat and stationary and that the sun, moon and stars revolve around it under the firmament. The Church doesn't have to officially say "earth is flat" in order for Catholics to know its flat, with a dome, bound to the heavens like a block of stone, set on pillars, with four corners, at the bottom of the universe, like a footstool for God, with a face, never to be moved, as scripture describes.  Just like the people waited until the 19th century to hear the words officially from the Church that Mary was immaculately conceived, they will have to wait for the "official" statement that earth is flat. However, the proof is there for those who want to know. Further, because the damage from pagan cosmology promotes evolution, a Godless creation, false science, relativism, atheism, imprecision and lies, there is no reason to hold such a theory.  (ibid.)
    [Wrong. All scientific data (there is no such thing as "proof" in science as science is not about "proving" anything) shows earth to be spherical (its stationary quality has not been established due to our inability to ascertain absolute movement or lack of it). Catholics who pay attention know the earth is not "flat." There is nothing in Scripture or Tradition to define anything whatsoever about the physical reality of the universe, including the shape of the earth, and the Church will never make such a ridiculous definition because it's not the place of the Church to define material reality like that, which can be known by objective direct observation. The sphericity of the earth has nothing to do with the false theory of evolution.]
    .
    What isn't clear by Bede's statement is the fuller picture of how the Church Fathers and saints understood it.  That creation is indeed a sphere, with the firmament being the top of the sphere, flat earth where people live in the center, and the pit of hell at the bottom, together forming a globe.  Pictures of this are represented in many bibles, both ancient and new. *
    [Incorrect. The falsehood of this fatuous nonsense of yours is demonstrable very simply: If "creation is a sphere with the 'flat' earth where people live in the center," then half of the celestial sphere would be forever hidden below the earth, but we know there is no such direction hidden from our view, since we can see the stars revolving around Polaris as well as the stars revolving around the southern celestial pole (where there is no prominent star like the one near the north celestial pole). Therefore there is no hidden hemisphere in the skies. QED.]
    .
    Lucky for you, someone has recently been to the "edge" and has seen where the dome meets the earth.  Cosmas of Indiocopleustes and other explorers also explain exactly what it looks like which is identical to the Encyclopedia.  So, while I haven't been there, others have and described it for us. *
    [False. No one has been to your fantasy-land "edge" and no one can describe it because it does not exist. More flat-earth gibberish.]
    .
    There is that much proof that the Catholic Church teaches geocentric flat earth and condemns the pagan heliocentric globe.  And for those who have Faith, in the Church, in scripture, in truth, no additional proof is needed.  For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.  Take what you will. *
    [Balderdash!]
    .
    The dome would have to be at least 93,000,000 miles away in order to house the sun! *
    [False. This is a strawman argument, there is no such thing as "the dome."]
    .


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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 12:22:15 AM »
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  • [False. This is a strawman argument, there is no such thing as "the dome."]

    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 05:24:01 AM »
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  • .
    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.
    FALSE STATEMENTS -- All by one member: happenby 
    [Followed by my comments, sometimes in brackets] 
    ______________________________________________________________________

    I talk about flat earth where ever I go. Its been a long and difficult haul, but we need Catholics to rebuild what is necessarily Catholic! We need people to go through Church documents, read saints and unearth gold. And believe me, its out in them there hills!  We need researchers, youtubers, teachers, apologists, priests who can handle the heat, brave moms and dads! * 
    [Flat-earthism has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism.]
    As you say, it has nothing to do with Catholicism.  It takes an enormous ignorance of Catholic history to adopt her position.  The traditional Catholic view was spherical earth geocentrism.  The consensus on this lasted from the time of St. Bede (around 700) to the 1700s.  Before that some but not all Church Fathers believed in flat earth.  This is hardly sufficient basis for her to call her opinion "necessarily Catholic".  

    This is the falsehood I find most disturbing from the long list you compiled.  It is troubling to see the zeal which should be devoted to the Catholic faith perverted to the promotion of what is, at best, a non-issue. And at worse, it is something far more sinister.

    Offline Theosist

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 08:19:51 AM »
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  • There’s nothing more to be said.

    Such wilful ignorance, stupidity and hatred for the intellect as is displayed by clowns like heppenby, smedley and the rest in their “arguments” can only be diabolical.

    For someone who hasn’t gone past high school algebra to in all seriousness impugn the expertise of physicists in their own field - an expertise whose reality is borne witness to every day in all the quasi miraculous technologies we modern humans use - is an astounding manifestation of the sins of vanity and pride, and that of allegations of a world-wide cօռspιʀαcʏ involving at least hundreds of thousands of people to “cover up” the “flat Earth” from faked photos, faked video, faked satellites, faked rockets, faked probes, faked telescopes, faked data, faked textbooks, and every physicists and astronomer either in on it or so much more intellectually challenged than “flat Earthers” so as to be duped - heck, flatters even claim that the images of Jupiter and Saturn seems through telescopes are faked by the telescope manufacturers - now that is faithlessness and is verging on a kind of Gnosticism. (Reality is one big lie, and we, the Flat Earthers, possess the hidden knowledge of the truth that will set you free and save you - they literally believe this.)


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #8 on: May 21, 2018, 10:23:24 AM »
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  • As you say, it has nothing to do with Catholicism.  It takes an enormous ignorance of Catholic history to adopt her position.  The traditional Catholic view was spherical earth geocentrism.  The consensus on this lasted from the time of St. Bede (around 700) to the 1700s.  Before that some but not all Church Fathers believed in flat earth.  This is hardly sufficient basis for her to call her opinion "necessarily Catholic".  

    This is the falsehood I find most disturbing from the long list you compiled.  It is troubling to see the zeal which should be devoted to the Catholic faith perverted to the promotion of what is, at best, a non-issue. And at worse, it is something far more sinister.


    Flat earth is sinister? I don't think so. In what way has the belief in a flat earth affected humanity, society, or religion? There have been no negative social or political or religious effects that I know of.

    However, I must say that the belief in a spherical earth has had a sinister effect on society, humanity at large, and religion, IMO. Consider what Happenby stated on your thread recently:

    "The sphere is always found emanating from the dark corners of science where you find these types: Cabalists (Albert Pike), sorcerers (Johannes Kepler), diviners (N. Copernicus), atheists (Einstein), Freemasons (NASA), ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs (Newton), political mass murderers (Karl Marx).

    All of these men were sphere earth promoters in a big way. In fact, Karl Marx, an avid spherical earther, actually thanked Copernicus for giving him a scientific premise for ƈσmmυɳιsm/marxism."

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/st-augustine-believed-the-earth-is-a-sphere/

    I think it's important to understand what sort of people have promoted a sphere earth, and how it has effected humanity.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #9 on: May 21, 2018, 12:50:32 PM »
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  • Flat earth is sinister? I don't think so. In what way has the belief in a flat earth affected humanity, society, or religion? There have been no negative social or political or religious effects that I know of.

    However, I must say that the belief in a spherical earth has had a sinister effect on society, humanity at large, and religion, IMO. Consider what Happenby stated on your thread recently:

    "The sphere is always found emanating from the dark corners of science where you find these types: Cabalists (Albert Pike), sorcerers (Johannes Kepler), diviners (N. Copernicus), atheists (Einstein), Freemasons (NASA), ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs (Newton), political mass murderers (Karl Marx).

    All of these men were sphere earth promoters in a big way. In fact, Karl Marx, an avid spherical earther, actually thanked Copernicus for giving him a scientific premise for ƈσmmυɳιsm/marxism."

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/st-augustine-believed-the-earth-is-a-sphere/

    I think it's important to understand what sort of people have promoted a sphere earth, and how it has effected humanity.
    If I wanted to take the time, I could give  examples of creepy flat earthers.   Eric Dubay springs to mind. It is not, however, significant either way.

    As you have already been told, Copernicus did not introduce or promote the concept of spherical earth.  Catholics had already held a consensus that the earth is a sphere for hundreds of years before his time.  He introduced the idea of the earth orbiting a stationary sun.  You keep conflating these ideas because you know how weak your argument is.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 01:00:35 PM »
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  • If I wanted to take the time, I could give  examples of creepy flat earthers.   Eric Dubay springs to mind. It is not, however, significant either way.

    As you have already been told, Copernicus did not introduce or promote the concept of spherical earth.  Catholics had already held a consensus that the earth is a sphere for hundreds of years before his time.  He introduced the idea of the earth orbiting a stationary sun.  You keep conflating these ideas because you know how weak your argument is.

    As usual, you choose to ignore the main point of what I posted. It's not about who's creepy. It's about how society has been affected. Surely you saw that that's my main point.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)


    Offline Theosist

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 01:04:59 PM »
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  • You Flat Earthers are cowards. See, it’s easy for you to deny the expertise and question the science when doing so has no practical implications for your lives. But here you are using a computer - do you question the work of “ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ” Alan Turing? Do you question the theories of electronics that underlying it? Do you question Maxwell’s equations?  Do you doubt the views of the technician who comes in to repair it? Do you tell him he’s a representatives of scientism and a liar? Do you doubt the physics of thermodynamics when it comes to your car’s internal combustion engine? Do you claim that Newton’s gravitational theories are bunk when it yields the equations of motion that have been used by artillerists for centuries to accurately determine the paths of projectiles? Maybe all those cruise missiles fired at Syria were fake. Maybe planes are fake too - how could they be real when they are engineered according to the equations of Newtonian Mechanics? Please, don’t ever again drive over a modern bridge built on the principles of statics. And don’t turn on an appliance that is powered by electricity- and for goodness’ sake, especially not if that electricity is coming from nuclear power: that’s a fairy tale. Physicists are a bunch of morons! One should never listen to them! 

    What we understand is that all of you have no education in any mathematical science, a double-digit I.Q., and the diabolical vanity and pride of the wilfully ignorant idiot who rages against anything beyond the grasp of his puny intellect and hates anyone who doesn’t share his failings in this regard.


    Offline Theosist

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 01:17:49 PM »
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  • Flat earth is sinister? I don't think so. In what way has the belief in a flat earth affected humanity, society, or religion? There have been no negative social or political or religious effects that I know of.

    However, I must say that the belief in a spherical earth has had a sinister effect on society, humanity at large, and religion, IMO. Consider what Happenby stated on your thread recently:

    "The sphere is always found emanating from the dark corners of science where you find these types: Cabalists (Albert Pike), sorcerers (Johannes Kepler), diviners (N. Copernicus), atheists (Einstein), Freemasons (NASA), ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs (Newton), political mass murderers (Karl Marx).

    All of these men were sphere earth promoters in a big way. In fact, Karl Marx, an avid spherical earther, actually thanked Copernicus for giving him a scientific premise for ƈσmmυɳιsm/marxism."

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/st-augustine-believed-the-earth-is-a-sphere/

    I think it's important to understand what sort of people have promoted a sphere earth, and how it has effected humanity.
    The fact is that you are as much able to understand and analyse social phenomena and the supposed  “impact” of belief in a “spherical Earth” upon human societies as you are able to understand and analyse a classical mechanics textbook or a physical experiment, which is to say, NOT AT ALL.  You’re as inept at playing the sociologist or historian as you are at playing the physicist:
    Your “point” is nothing; you’ve said nothing, elaborated nothing, substantiated nothing, and argued for nothing. You’ve merely jotted down a few names and said something about some alleged and unexplained “effects” upon “society”. That’s not a point. It’s not even a claim. There’s nothing to respond to.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #13 on: May 21, 2018, 01:20:26 PM »
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  • As usual, you choose to ignore the main point of what I posted. It's not about who's creepy. It's about how society has been affected. Surely you saw that that's my main point.
    Most of things you think happened did not happen or, at least, not when you think they did.  But of the things that actually did happen, you have not shown a causal relationship to changes in society.

    For example, belief in spherical earth was widespread among the Catholics of the Middle Ages. Also, some bad things happened then, like the bubonic plague.  It does not necessarily follow that believing the earth is a sphere causes the plague.  Your ideas on "how society has been affected" are based on this sort of logical fallacy.  There is nothing to say other than to point out your inability to construct logical arguments.  Since that is obvious, I did not bother.  

    I can think of no affect on society due to spherical earth.  However, if there were one, it would have shown up in the middle ages.  You are not even considering the right time period.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 05:45:34 PM »
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  • Meg, please ignore Jaynek and her ba'alcrap.

    Don't feed the troll.


     

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