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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 12265 times)

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Offline hansel

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2023, 01:56:22 PM »
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  • Here is proof that stars are not globes.  I've taken videos like this and shared them, so I know this is exactly what you see when you observe the stars up close with a capable zoom lens. 



    Have you done this experiment? You assume stars are millions of miles away because NASA tells you that.  Not only is their massive lie proven wrong by videos like this, many other people have discovered the same thing and shared it everywhere. I've seen many of these by various individuals before they were taken down by Youtube and other gatekeepers. Stars are not worlds, they are lights. And they are not too far away to video. Stars are relatively small lights just above us in the firmament. I've personally taken videos like this with my P900 and posted them.  Ignoring or denying the results of honest experiments to see if NASA is telling the truth and even that prove NASA is lying, isn't going to help anyone. 


    Firstly, no scientist I am aware of (modern, NASA, or otherwise) has ever made the claim that they could actually visually "see" the "globe" or "disc" of a star with an optical instrument, even via long-exposure photography. Modern scientists DO think of the sun as a "star" (and since the sun has a globe/disc shape when viewed through a solar telescope, their  thought process is that other "stars" are similarly shaped). Obviously this is open to discussion. 

    However, in a good-sized telescope with excellent in-focus optics, the stars don't look anything like the amorphous "boiling" shapes captured in that video via the Nikon camera telephoto lens. In a high-quality telescope, the stars are said to look like clean and tight pinpoints of light, even when you push the magnification to its highest (and this is my personal experience as well). At a certain point, if you push the telescope's magnification beyond it's limit, you start to actually see more of the irregularities of the optics themselves than the actual object you are looking at. This can be proved by looking at the same star at the same time with different telescopes of known and varying optical quality. All practical experience with telescopes (and not just NASA or modern side of things) indicates that the actual surfaces and shapes of the stars cannot be seen by eye, regardless of magnification or the size of telescope. The standard explanation given is extreme distance. This is in contrast to the planets, all of which can be resolved into discs of varying sizes given an appropriate-sized telescope.

    The problem is that the camera/telephoto zoom lens is the wrong tool for the job if you want to try and resolve small objects in the night sky.  You don't just need magnification, but much larger aperture (larger diameter of the main lens), which actually is more directly related to resolution potential than magnification. The "boiling" irregular images in that video aren't really the surfaces of the stars at all, but basically de-focused blurs of the light coming from the stars. Those blurs just show how bad the quality of the camera lens is. At 1:15, for example, the triangle shape of Venus (and the other objects) is due to astigmatism somewhere in the optical train, which creates spiky or triangle-shaped images. I've observed Venus many times with a moderate-sized telescope, and it is always a sharp gibbous shape or crescent, never that mushy "boiling" triangle shape. The only way you can arrive at a similar image to the camera one in the video via a telescope, good or bad, is to throw the telescope out of focus. So overall as St. Giles indicated, that video proves nothing. One needs an astronomical telescope to accurately assess these objects, not a telephoto lens, and even then the stars will appear as pinpricks of light.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #61 on: July 17, 2023, 02:56:16 PM »
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  • That tells us a lot.
    Why are they so intent on censoring what most people have been carefully taught is a "crackpot" idea?

    It does say a lot. Censoring is a sure sign it's important for them to keep you from knowing.    


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #62 on: July 17, 2023, 03:13:15 PM »
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  • However, in a good-sized telescope with excellent in-focus optics, the stars don't look anything like the amorphous "boiling" shapes captured in that video via the Nikon camera telephoto lens. In a high-quality telescope, the stars are said to look like clean and tight pinpoints of light, even when you push the magnification to its highest (and this is my personal experience as well). 

    I did several experiments with a friend who had a powerful highly advanced 10" telescope and I had my P900.  His telescope saw a fraction of what my camera picked up and maybe that was the problem, but the fact that both of us got pictures and video is a testament to the fact the stars are not millions of miles away. Neither instrument can do that.  Unless you want to call me a liar, the stars look exactly like the "boiling" shapes captured in that video and every star is totally different from every other star. Until you've done this with a p900 yourself, or realize there are a myriad of videos with similar results, taken by hundreds (or even thousands) of people who don't even know each other, and who are only trying to understand what is going on, you wouldn't be so willing to make this false assumption.  

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #63 on: July 17, 2023, 05:00:12 PM »
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  • I did several experiments with a friend who had a powerful highly advanced 10" telescope and I had my P900.  His telescope saw a fraction of what my camera picked up and maybe that was the problem, but the fact that both of us got pictures and video is a testament to the fact the stars are not millions of miles away. Neither instrument can do that.  Unless you want to call me a liar, the stars look exactly like the "boiling" shapes captured in that video and every star is totally different from every other star. Until you've done this with a p900 yourself, or realize there are a myriad of videos with similar results, taken by hundreds (or even thousands) of people who don't even know each other, and who are only trying to understand what is going on, you wouldn't be so willing to make this false assumption. 

    If you went through the math and considered variables such as the size of stars, their claimed distance, atmospheric distortion, and the tolerances of telescopes and cameras, you will find both the explanation to what you see, and you will realise how extremely difficult it would be to get a clear image of a star from earth's surface.

    That camera and telescope are like little toys compared to what's needed. There's even problems with getting precise focus as changes in temperature change the size of the parts. Just try to look at a distant hill with a telescope, and you will see much distortion through all that air. Actually, poor quality images are often seen in daytime p900 videos at max zoom. Depending on how good your eyes are you can learn to pick up on small details until you clearly see how cameras like the p900 are far inferior in image quality compared to a pro grade camera. I used to think highly of a little camera of mine of the same quality as the p900, but without the high zoom, until I started using a Canon 6D.

    The main problem with image quality comes from pixel size on the sensor, and ISO sensitivity. What was the ISO number when you take videos  like that? If it says ISO AUTO you need to at least try to find what aperture number and shutter speed number were used, then manually set the ISO until the video looks the same. Then, tell me the ISO number. If it is any higher than 400 on that camera, the quality will be bad, and even 400 looks bad in general. 100 looks good, but is still a several times worse clarity than a Canon 6D at 100.


    Who are you to say what the limit is for how far light can travel? No offence, but you're almost acting like an atheist as in, the facts, math, and experiments exist to give you plenty of reason to believe stars are extremely far away and practically impossible to visually resolve from earth, but you don't want to believe like so many flat earthers. Like the Catholic faith has plenty going for it to be believed, but so many choose not to. I find it best to walk away and mull over things for a week as I can stubbornly be so attached to my reasoning that I can't see my error.

    I do understand some of you're concern, because I sometimes see a star that flashes different colors and hadn't found any good explanation at the time. I haven't looked into it since, but why that star? I could come up with some hypotheses.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
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    Offline hansel

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #64 on: July 17, 2023, 05:22:37 PM »
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  • I did several experiments with a friend who had a powerful highly advanced 10" telescope and I had my P900.  His telescope saw a fraction of what my camera picked up and maybe that was the problem, but the fact that both of us got pictures and video is a testament to the fact the stars are not millions of miles away. Neither instrument can do that. 

    If your meaning by the bolded text above is that you saw more detail in the Nikon P900 w/telephoto lens used alone than the 10" telescope used alone, than something is gravely wrong here with the acquisition or the interpretation of the images. The 10" telescope will always give more detail and brightness due to the larger aperture. If the telephoto lens + camera alone seemed to give a bigger image or more detail, what you are seeing in the camera is artificial and caused by the camera itself rather than a feature of the star or other object in question. It is most likely due to an inability of the telephoto lens (which is designed for land objects, not the sky) to focus on the star an resolve its light to a point. Or, poor optical quality of the camera is scattering the light and distorting it. If your friend's 10" telescope produced images exactly like the ones in the youtube video, it is out of focus and/or has some serious optical problems.

    Unless you want to call me a liar, the stars look exactly like the "boiling" shapes captured in that video and every star is totally different from every other star.

    To be clear I'm not calling you a liar here or in the previous post, but I do think you are unfortunately mis-using your equipment (or using the wrong equipment for the job) and are misinterpreting the results you are getting. De-focused stars will always look like those boiling shapes, and each defocused star may indeed look different from the other. The problem is, de-focused boiling star shapes don't tell you much about the object in question other than the quality of the optics you are using. It would be like defocusing a pair of binoculars looking at a cardinal bird until all you see is a red blob; it doesn't tell you much about the characteristics of the object, other than the fact it is red. Look up "star testing" of telescopes and the "airy disc".

    In-focus, when testing the optics, the star should look like a point. as you de-focus on either side, it will expand to a symmetrical disc with rings within it. Asymmetry or irregularity (as in the video) means problems with optical quality, or thermal/atmospheric disturbances 
    ( https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/how-to-star-test-a-telescope/ )

    Until you've done this with a p900 yourself, or realize there are a myriad of videos with similar results, taken by hundreds (or even thousands) of people who don't even know each other, and who are only trying to understand what is going on, you wouldn't be so willing to make this false assumption. 

    I've used quite a few digital cameras, binoculars, and telescopes over the years, and could easily replicate the boiling blobs you are seeing. The problem is that once again in order to replicate this, you need to de-focus the image, which defeats the whole purpose of looking at the object in the first place, unless you are testing optical quality.  Take a pair of binoculars, look at a star, focus it to a point, and then de-focus it a little and that will approximate the boiling blobs you are seeing in your camera or in that youtube video. And yes, a lot of folks out there sadly don't know how to use their equipment; they mean well, but are mistaken. There are also a lot of folks who do know how to use their equipment who report the stars as pinpoints. And these aren't NASA "elites", but folks who chat on public forums just like this one.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #65 on: July 17, 2023, 05:23:24 PM »
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  • Have you done this experiment? You assume stars are millions of miles away because NASA tells you that.  Not only is their massive lie proven wrong by videos like this, many other people have discovered the same thing and shared it everywhere. I've seen many of these by various individuals before they were taken down by Youtube and other gatekeepers. Stars are not worlds, they are lights. And they are not too far away to video. Stars are relatively small lights just above us in the firmament. I've personally taken videos like this with my P900 and posted them.  Ignoring or denying the results of honest experiments to see if NASA is telling the truth and even that prove NASA is lying, isn't going to help anyone. 

    Is it even possible that you just might not understand the results of your experiment? A good scientist who seeks the truth will try his experiment to prove that it means what he thinks it means. Ideally, you would try taking videos with different cameras with the same zoom capability. Also you would determine a way to check the accuracy of the focus of each camera, because they do often make mistakes, even big mistakes when it comes to focus. Also, you would rule out the causes of any similarities and differences in the way the star looks. Which lens has the dirt that causes certain phenomenon, or is it on the sensor? Is the image really what the camera sees, or is the sensor data processor causing significant alterations to make the best of poor quality optics and high ISO all while keeping the file size small?

    Also, I have had my YT account deleted by YT, and they have deleted several other's over the years for apparently no reason. It must have been some robot they used to clean and regulate the system, and it must have had false triggers for termination. My content was nothing bad, the same with many others, nothing controversial. Maybe it was because YT wanted ads on everyone's videos, but many people resisted.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #66 on: July 17, 2023, 05:29:31 PM »
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  • If you went through the math and considered variables such as the size of stars, their claimed distance, atmospheric distortion, and the tolerances of telescopes and cameras, you will find both the explanation to what you see, and you will realise how extremely difficult it would be to get a clear image of a star from earth's surface.

    That camera and telescope are like little toys compared to what's needed. There's even problems with getting precise focus as changes in temperature change the size of the parts. Just try to look at a distant hill with a telescope, and you will see much distortion through all that air. Actually, poor quality images are often seen in daytime p900 videos at max zoom. Depending on how good your eyes are you can learn to pick up on small details until you clearly see how cameras like the p900 are far inferior in image quality compared to a pro grade camera. I used to think highly of a little camera of mine of the same quality as the p900, but without the high zoom, until I started using a Canon 6D.

    The main problem with image quality comes from pixel size on the sensor, and ISO sensitivity. What was the ISO number when you take videos  like that? If it says ISO AUTO you need to at least try to find what aperture number and shutter speed number were used, then manually set the ISO until the video looks the same. Then, tell me the ISO number. If it is any higher than 400 on that camera, the quality will be bad, and even 400 looks bad in general. 100 looks good, but is still a several times worse clarity than a Canon 6D at 100.


    Who are you to say what the limit is for how far light can travel? No offence, but you're almost acting like an atheist as in, the facts, math, and experiments exist to give you plenty of reason to believe stars are extremely far away and practically impossible to visually resolve from earth, but you don't want to believe like so many flat earthers. Like the Catholic faith has plenty going for it to be believed, but so many choose not to. I find it best to walk away and mull over things for a week as I can stubbornly be so attached to my reasoning that I can't see my error.

    I do understand some of you're concern, because I sometimes see a star that flashes different colors and hadn't found any good explanation at the time. I haven't looked into it since, but why that star? I could come up with some hypotheses.

    I just don't have confidence in NASA's claims to the size of stars, nor their inaccurately pictured appearance as hard or gas bodies.  They appear electromagnetic in their behavior.  

    If the camera and telescope we used were little toys, if the stars were millions of miles away, how were we able to view the stars at all? I don't pretend my camera has capabilities it doesn't. Not even NASA can see things millions of miles away with their equipment, but then, that's our contention here. I don't trust NASA and find they lie a lot. From what I can tell, stars are probably less than 5000 miles away, since even that would be a stretch for my camera across a plane or body of water. I've seen the videos that claim our P900cameras are out of focus and how to set the ISO for a worse picture clarity.  No doubt the producers of those videos work for NASA.  

    While you're looking, take some time to search out and check other videos of other named stars and their variable shapes and colors.  Sirius is clearly the most colorful and eye-catching, but there are others.  What is most fascinating is that they are obviously not orbs or bodies, since we can see through different areas, even the center at times, but obviously lights of some sort.     

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #67 on: July 17, 2023, 05:55:55 PM »
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  • An interesting tangent: the size of lenses required to have the same zoom capability as the p900, but on large sensor cameras like the 6D https://pixelpluck.com/battle-of-biggest-zoom-lenses-ever/


    I'm not saying that NASA is right, but there is too much evidence in favor of the possibility that NASA is right, not their artistically enhanced images, but real observations that is easily backed by math that at least shows what they say is possible, if not certainly true.

    How small is light? If even 1 photon makes it to your camera all night long, that photon had to come from somewhere. How do you rule out it didn't come from a star (assuming we are trying to image stars at night)? Consider how big NASA says the sun is. If stars are that big, and considering how small photons are and how bright the sun is, that is an enormous number of photons released per millisecond of which we only need a grain of sand worth to see. it is very easy for those few rare photons that just happened to be aimed right at earth to reach us in enough quantity to see. It is also not hard to understand how very distant galaxies can be visible when a camera is left to collect light from them over several days at high sensitivity. with a billion stars the size of the sun or larger in one galaxy, as big and spread out as NASA says galaxies are, surely enough photons perfectly aimed at earth will accuмulate over several days to make the image of a faint little galaxy.

    Just don't rule it out. You don't have to trust NASA, but I don't see enough evidence to rule it out. If you poke a stick into water, it looks bent, so it is bent right? Wrong.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline alaric

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #68 on: July 17, 2023, 05:56:41 PM »
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  • :facepalm:  I would have taking this as an honest question ... until your last sentence.  This is really one of the simplest things to address.  Whether you're on a globe or on a flat circle, in both cases you're simply going in a circle when you go around the earth.  Do you imagine the FE model is the Mercator Projection where it just suddenly stops on either side.  Perhaps if you'd educate yourself a bit first you'd be in more of a position to summarily reject "this FE stuff".
    I'm not sure how else you would describe " flat Earth"?

    And what do you mean by " flat circle?

    Do you believe the world is round or not? You think it's a pancake or something?

    No need to get emotional. Just asked a question.

    and I don't have time to go through 5 pages of this insanity.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #69 on: July 17, 2023, 05:57:53 PM »
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  • NASA claims we can see a star that's 28 BILLION LIGHT YEARS away, and others that are millions of light years away.  That's just plain ridiculous.

    1) due to the inverse-square rule of light, the light couldn't even be visible this far away regardless of the optics we have

    2) due to the incredible distances involved, even the most massive object would have such low angular resolution as to no longer be visible

    3) there would be so many objects between us and these stars that certainly something would be between us and those starts and they would not have an unobstructed view for millions and even billions of light years

    4) Olbers' paradox indicates that if all these stars were visible for millions and billions of light years, our entire night sky would be lit up by them, as there would be no blackness there at all

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #71 on: July 17, 2023, 07:44:33 PM »
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  • If your meaning by the bolded text above is that you saw more detail in the Nikon P900 w/telephoto lens used alone than the 10" telescope used alone, than something is gravely wrong here with the acquisition or the interpretation of the images. The 10" telescope will always give more detail and brightness due to the larger aperture. If the telephoto lens + camera alone seemed to give a bigger image or more detail, what you are seeing in the camera is artificial and caused by the camera itself rather than a feature of the star or other object in question. It is most likely due to an inability of the telephoto lens (which is designed for land objects, not the sky) to focus on the star an resolve its light to a point. Or, poor optical quality of the camera is scattering the light and distorting it. If your friend's 10" telescope produced images exactly like the ones in the youtube video, it is out of focus and/or has some serious optical problems.

    To be clear I'm not calling you a liar here or in the previous post, but I do think you are unfortunately mis-using your equipment (or using the wrong equipment for the job) and are misinterpreting the results you are getting. De-focused stars will always look like those boiling shapes, and each defocused star may indeed look different from the other. The problem is, de-focused boiling star shapes don't tell you much about the object in question other than the quality of the optics you are using. It would be like defocusing a pair of binoculars looking at a cardinal bird until all you see is a red blob; it doesn't tell you much about the characteristics of the object, other than the fact it is red. Look up "star testing" of telescopes and the "airy disc".

    In-focus, when testing the optics, the star should look like a point. as you de-focus on either side, it will expand to a symmetrical disc with rings within it. Asymmetry or irregularity (as in the video) means problems with optical quality, or thermal/atmospheric disturbances 
    ( https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/how-to-star-test-a-telescope/ )

    I've used quite a few digital cameras, binoculars, and telescopes over the years, and could easily replicate the boiling blobs you are seeing. The problem is that once again in order to replicate this, you need to de-focus the image, which defeats the whole purpose of looking at the object in the first place, unless you are testing optical quality.  Take a pair of binoculars, look at a star, focus it to a point, and then de-focus it a little and that will approximate the boiling blobs you are seeing in your camera or in that youtube video. And yes, a lot of folks out there sadly don't know how to use their equipment; they mean well, but are mistaken. There are also a lot of folks who do know how to use their equipment who report the stars as pinpoints. And these aren't NASA "elites", but folks who chat on public forums just like this one.
    We can disagree about the use of equipment, but the fact that the stars are provably not as described by NASA, there is a lot more work to do to get to the bottom of what is going on above us.  I don't agree that the star should look like a point, unless I'm going by information provided by people I don't trust and ignoring what I found.  The fact that you can replicate the stars as I've seen is maybe a sign you should ditch the preconceived ideas and look at your results independently.  As far as the ordinary people, I've found they too can be influenced by NASA and come to conclusions that don't make sense.  

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #72 on: July 17, 2023, 07:46:09 PM »
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  • An interesting tangent: the size of lenses required to have the same zoom capability as the p900, but on large sensor cameras like the 6D https://pixelpluck.com/battle-of-biggest-zoom-lenses-ever/


    I'm not saying that NASA is right, but there is too much evidence in favor of the possibility that NASA is right, not their artistically enhanced images, but real observations that is easily backed by math that at least shows what they say is possible, if not certainly true.

    How small is light? If even 1 photon makes it to your camera all night long, that photon had to come from somewhere. How do you rule out it didn't come from a star (assuming we are trying to image stars at night)? Consider how big NASA says the sun is. If stars are that big, and considering how small photons are and how bright the sun is, that is an enormous number of photons released per millisecond of which we only need a grain of sand worth to see. it is very easy for those few rare photons that just happened to be aimed right at earth to reach us in enough quantity to see. It is also not hard to understand how very distant galaxies can be visible when a camera is left to collect light from them over several days at high sensitivity. with a billion stars the size of the sun or larger in one galaxy, as big and spread out as NASA says galaxies are, surely enough photons perfectly aimed at earth will accuмulate over several days to make the image of a faint little galaxy.

    Just don't rule it out. You don't have to trust NASA, but I don't see enough evidence to rule it out. If you poke a stick into water, it looks bent, so it is bent right? Wrong.
    Just wondering...do you think man went to the moon?

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #73 on: July 17, 2023, 07:48:34 PM »
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  • Is it even possible that you just might not understand the results of your experiment? A good scientist who seeks the truth will try his experiment to prove that it means what he thinks it means. Ideally, you would try taking videos with different cameras with the same zoom capability. Also you would determine a way to check the accuracy of the focus of each camera, because they do often make mistakes, even big mistakes when it comes to focus. Also, you would rule out the causes of any similarities and differences in the way the star looks. Which lens has the dirt that causes certain phenomenon, or is it on the sensor? Is the image really what the camera sees, or is the sensor data processor causing significant alterations to make the best of poor quality optics and high ISO all while keeping the file size small?

    Also, I have had my YT account deleted by YT, and they have deleted several other's over the years for apparently no reason. It must have been some robot they used to clean and regulate the system, and it must have had false triggers for termination. My content was nothing bad, the same with many others, nothing controversial. Maybe it was because YT wanted ads on everyone's videos, but many people resisted.
    It's always possible I don't understand the results, but with others who produce the same results, the onus is on NASA and they aren't ever going to fess up if they're lying.  Now what?  Pretend I didn't see what I've seen?  

    Offline hansel

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #74 on: July 17, 2023, 08:33:37 PM »
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  • We can disagree about the use of equipment, but the fact that the stars are provably not as described by NASA, there is a lot more work to do to get to the bottom of what is going on above us.  I don't agree that the star should look like a point, unless I'm going by information provided by people I don't trust and ignoring what I found. 

    I'd agree that there is a lot more work to do to understand what we see in the night sky. However, this tangent on equipment has nothing to do with people or opinions; it is a simple fact of optics that anyone can see given that they have access to a high-quality telescope that is used and maintained properly.

    The question of (1) whether stars are different from what NASA says they are and (2) whether they look like "points" (or have a symmetrical airy disc structure instead of the bloated irregular mass in that video: https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/how-to-star-test-a-telescope/) are in fact two different and independent questions. If the only person you can trust is yourself, as St. Giles said, then you need to get several telescopes, cameras, etc. to demonstrate on your own that those bloated "boiling" irregular masses aren't just due to equipment problems. You need to establish if the camera can really focus on stars, and if so where the exact focus point is. As St. Giles said, you need to demonstrate that those bloated shapes aren't due to other variables such as the camera sensor, ISO values, over-magnification etc. Once again, cameras are really not good by themselves to study the night sky; there's too much electronics and technology in general that affects the images and over-processes them. And the aperture is execrable compared to a telescope. Your best bet is to look at stars with a telescope or photograph stars through the telescope with the camera. If you have an amateur astronomy club near you, see if you can rent/borrow some of their telescopes or go to one of their meetings. Regardless of agreement or non-agreement with their specific cosmology beliefs, that will give you access to better equipment to use to explore this if you want.


    The fact that you can replicate the stars as I've seen is maybe a sign you should ditch the preconceived ideas and look at your results independently. 

    This has nothing to do with preconceived cosmology ideas on my end; I'm open to listening to various interpretations of what stars are, what they are made of, how big they are, how far away etc. However, independent of all of those bloated star videos (as well as mainstream scientists), I have myself seen stars resolve to points of light or organized airy discs in good telescopes. And that is pretty much what anyone else with experience involving telescopes, amateur or professional, will tell you. With regard to my replication of the bloated stars, re-read the text below from my previous post you are referencing:

    I've used quite a few digital cameras, binoculars, and telescopes over the years, and could easily replicate the boiling blobs you are seeing. The problem is that once again in order to replicate this, you need to de-focus the image, which defeats the whole purpose of looking at the object in the first place, unless you are testing optical quality. 

    The only way what you are seeing can be replicated is basically if the instrument is misused; i.e., it is purposely thrown out of focus or "de-focused". Would you call a family portrait picture that is grossly out of focus so everyone looks like blobs of color a good representation of the subject (or an instrument being used properly)? The fact that I can replicate your results by purposefully "misusing" an instrument actually is a warning that the bloated and boiling star images are NOT accurate representations of their true structure. You're basically just looking at the peculiarities of your own optics.

    At any rate, good luck with your experiments.