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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 23255 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2023, 01:53:40 PM »
Quote from: Jaynek on July 15, 2023, 01:24:14 PM
The video claimed that they were giving clear proof that medieval thinkers believed in flat earth. I am not willing to watch it again to quote the exact words.

Video never claimed that St. Thomas believed in a Flat Earth, nor did he say that all Medieval thinkers believed in a Flat Earth.  I don't think you were paying close enough attention to the actual words he was using.  His main thesis was to dispel the notion that no one since about 500 BC believed that the earth was flat.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2023, 01:57:51 PM »
Quote from: Tradman on July 15, 2023, 01:36:34 PM

Yea, Thomas isn't entirely forthcoming about his final decision, although he does appear to support the Fathers who did not think earth was a globe because of his appreciation for the firmament. As I remember, in his big digression about Aristotle's opinion, Thomas seems to come to the conclusion that if the earth is moving, it's probably a globe, but that if it's stationary, it has to be flat.  In fact, there is a traditional flat earth priest I know who says that, in his personal opinion, that's the proof Thomas didn't believe earth is a globe. 

That is one tricky aspect of this, that St. Thomas is merely commenting upon Aristotle.  While it may be reasonably inferred that he agrees with Aristotle, it's not 100%, and typically such commentaries would be done earlier in one's career as a Philosopher/Theologian.  Due to an attitude of humility, it would have been considered great hubris for someone to write his own works without first having widely read what others have to say on the matter.  So you started by reading and commenting on what others had written.  It may even have been considered arrogant to disagree with their conclusions at that time.  If you were teaching Aristotle, it would be like explaining what Aristotle was saying rather than writing your own textbook and refuting Aristotle.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2023, 02:00:45 PM »
One thing I found interesting in a quote from one of the Church Fathers cited by Dr. Sungenis was where the Father in question said that there were many theories about the shape of the earth and that just as soon as one became widely accepted, a new one would pop up, and the old one would be discredited.  He was using that to illustrate the unreliability of scientists in general.  Outside the question of FE proper, this also dispels the notion that the "entire world" believed in NASA's ball-floating-through-space earth model since 500 B.C.
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Offline Jaynek

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2023, 02:02:12 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 15, 2023, 01:53:40 PM
Video never claimed that St. Thomas believed in a Flat Earth, nor did he say that all Medieval thinkers believed in a Flat Earth.  I don't think you were paying close enough attention to the actual words he was using.  His main thesis was to dispel the notion that no one since about 500 BC believed that the earth was flat.

By talking about St. Thomas they were giving the impression that he was one of these alleged Medieval thinkers who believed the earth was flat, even if they did not explicitly say it.  They were being dishonest, whatever the actual words were. There was no good reason to mention him at all, since he clearly believed the earth is a sphere and mentioned it multiple places throughout his work.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2023, 02:03:28 PM »
Quote from: Jaynek on July 15, 2023, 02:02:12 PM
By talking about St. Thomas they were giving the impression that he was one of these alleged Medieval thinkers who believed the earth was flat, even if they did not explicitly say it.  They were being dishonest, whatever the actual words were. There was no good reason to mention him at all, since he clearly believed the earth is a sphere and mentioned it multiple places throughout his work.

You read that into it.  I did not.  He even explicitly stated at one point that he didn't agree with everything St. Thomas said about the shape of the earth.
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