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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 23235 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2023, 05:30:03 AM »
Quote from: cassini on July 17, 2023, 05:01:23 AM
For me, geocentrism has been revealed by God and the Church, so in that case I can confirm G is correct. The shape of the Earth has not been confirmed by God or the Church so that is left up to one's own choice.

Agreed.  I do nevertheless hold that the existence of a firmament and H2O waters above the firmament is also such a teaching of God and the Church, unanimously understood to be literal by the Church Fathers.  I have yet to see an adequate explanation for the firmament from a geocentrist, having seen Dr. Sungenis on tape saying that "the firmament is space".
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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2023, 08:27:14 AM »
Quote from: cassini on July 17, 2023, 05:01:23 AM
First of all Marulus I posted this website as part of this debate. I made no comment, merely wrote down the question. Interestingly, once again the response begins with a personal insult inferring ignorance of some sort on the person who even asked the question. There is no other debate on CIF conducted in such a way that needs to insult the poster before answering the question or not.

Ladislaus answered if the sun was nearer and smaller then it would have the same effect. His illustration is excellent, but it confirms for me that relativity exists in both the FEvGE as well as GvH. In more words, it depends on the word IF which is no confirmation at all. Unless one can get out there far enough in space to confirm these things, it remains a kind of draw at the relativity level.

For me, geocentrism has been revealed by God and the Church, so in that case I can confirm G is correct. The shape of the Earth has not been confirmed by God or the Church so that is left up to one's own choice. Mine is a globe because every other sun, moon and planet is created as a globe. Eclipses are more simply explained by a global Earth. The science of geodesy, used throughout the world to measure the level of the land to prevent flooding etc, confirms the shape of the Earth is a globe. There is not a single argument against a global Earth other than it would be more 'miraculous' if it were flat. Unlike geocentrism however there is no scientific evidence pointing to a flat Earth rather than a globe.

FEs on CIF I see prefer a flat-earth because it definitely would confirm the Earth is special, and like geocentrism would further confirm the existence of God as Creator and man as His special creation. St Augustine however, warned against using proposals about the creation that tends to undermine the faith. Go ask the population of the world what shape the Earth is? I have no doubt 99% will say a globe. Associate belief in a flat Earth with the Catholic faith will do the faith no good.

So Marulus, by all means argue your belief in a flat Earth but stop trying to convince others of it by way of insulting those who prefer the more reasonable global Earth. Stop trying to convince others it is more Catholic to believe in a flat Earth than a global Earth. Go ask 100 Catholics what the Child of Prague is holding and 99% of them will probably say the Earth rather than the universe. The Earth is God's footstool, not the universe, so it is the special one.

Here is proof that stars are not globes.  I've taken videos like this and shared them, so I know this is exactly what you see when you observe the stars up close with a capable zoom lens. 

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Offline St Giles

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2023, 09:03:06 AM »
Quote from: Tradman on July 17, 2023, 08:27:14 AM
Here is proof that stars are not globes.  I've taken videos like this and shared them, so I know this is exactly what you see when you observe the stars up close with a capable zoom lens. 


And I have already refuted that. Most importantly it would take like 10,000x zoom, if I remember correctly, to maybe see the orb of some of the closest stars as a tiny speck. They are that far away. Also, atmospheric distortion would make it impossible to clearly see a star as small as they are due to distance, and the p900 has relatively poor quality optics. You'd need an array of extremely precise telescopes to have a chance at getting a clear image of a star from the ground, as far as I know.
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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2023, 09:34:37 AM »
Quote from: St Giles on July 17, 2023, 09:03:06 AM
And I have already refuted that. Most importantly it would take like 10,000x zoom, if I remember correctly, to maybe see the orb of some of the closest stars as a tiny speck. They are that far away. Also, atmospheric distortion would make it impossible to clearly see a star as small as they are due to distance, and the p900 has relatively poor quality optics. You'd need an array of extremely precise telescopes to have a chance at getting a clear image of a star from the ground, as far as I know.

Have you done this experiment? You assume stars are millions of miles away because NASA tells you that.  Not only is their massive lie proven wrong by videos like this, many other people have discovered the same thing and shared it everywhere. I've seen many of these by various individuals before they were taken down by Youtube and other gatekeepers. Stars are not worlds, they are lights. And they are not too far away to video. Stars are relatively small lights just above us in the firmament. I've personally taken videos like this with my P900 and posted them.  Ignoring or denying the results of honest experiments to see if NASA is telling the truth and even that prove NASA is lying, isn't going to help anyone.   
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Offline cassini

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2023, 12:05:01 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 17, 2023, 05:30:03 AM
Agreed.  I do nevertheless hold that the existence of a firmament and H2O waters above the firmament is also such a teaching of God and the Church, unanimously understood to be literal by the Church Fathers.  I have yet to see an adequate explanation for the firmament from a geocentrist, having seen Dr. Sungenis on tape saying that "the firmament is space".

6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.  7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.  8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

The Douay Rheims bible then adds:

[6] "A firmament": By this name is here understood the whole space between the earth, and the highest stars. The lower part of which divideth the waters that are upon the earth, from those that are above in the clouds.

I disagree. It makes more sense to me to consider the firmament is the created oxygen filled space surrounding the Earth. It lies between the waters of the oceans on Earth and the clouds (waters) over this special space that life depends on. Both these waters are visible to man. A water outside the highest stars serves no purpose, cannot be seen so is a meaningless addition to God's creation. The oxygen firmament also infers that no other moon or planet made viable to Earth by God has such a 'firmament,' that is, a special creation in itself. Outside my interpretation of firmament we know is different. It has no life sustaining oxygen which makes the Air filled firmament a special creation by God around the Earth, worthy of His isolating it in His Creation revelation. As for 'heaven,' well that is covered by any interpretation of the firmament, it remains up there in the sky no matter how far that is.

Anyway, both meanings are attributed to God's Creation unlike the atheist Dawkins.

‘Q: “Do you think science will ever discover evidence to substantiate Catholic dogma like transubstantiation or the Ascension?”
Richard Dawkins A: “No, of course not. Where would the body of Christ go if it ascended? No one believes that heaven is up there, so how could it ascend?”’ (R. Dawkins; quoted in Dan Burstein & Arne de Keijzer’s Secrets of Angels & Demons; p.192.)

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