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Author Topic: From Holy Spirit to calling God You  (Read 10292 times)

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Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2019, 03:36:55 PM »
No because they only ever used "thou" and "thee", which were the informal variants of "you". Thanks for proving my point, I guess?
So we should talk to God informally, like we talk to nobodies? Do you agree with todays missals calling God you?


Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2019, 03:39:30 PM »
So we should talk to God informally, like we talk to nobodies? Do you agree with todays missals calling God you?
I'm just stating a matter of fact. "Thou" is not and was never the formal. It was always the informal/personal form. If you have a problem with God being referred to as "you"(which isn't even informal, it's both, e.g "Your Majesty" is not informal), then you should also have a problem with the 1855 Missal refering to Him as "thou". 


Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2019, 03:41:19 PM »
I'm just stating a matter of fact. "Thou" is not and was never the formal. It was always the informal/personal form.
I asked two questions which you did not answer. 

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2019, 03:47:35 PM »
I asked two questions which you did not answer.
Your questions are moronic because you're falsely calling "you" informal, and you're ignoring the fact that in the 1855 Missals you cited, "thou" was the informal form. I don't "agree" with the new Missal, but so far you've been completely unable to say why exactly it's an innovation or a problem. It's just using the generic(both formal and informal) 2nd person singular pronoun, just as Latin does. The Latin also uses the same word 2nd person singular pronoun for God as "nobodies". So in actual fact, using "you" is actually more formal and closer to the Latin than "thou" was when that 1855 Missal was new. 

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2019, 04:00:12 PM »
And yet, all the English Bible translations from back then used "thou" and "thee". Similarly the Germans always used "du" for God. In Latin, Hebrew, etc. there's no distinction between formal and informal versions of the 2nd person singular. Most languages with a distinction use the informal version. A notable exception is French, but there's plenty of usage of "tu" for God even in French dating back centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction
I'd also question the assumption that "thee" and "thou" are formal in modern English. They're just archaic. No one addresses a President or King or anyone as "thou"(it's Your Majesty, not Thy Majesty). People only do it with God because they're referencing old translations, which is perfectly fine of course, but to act as if saying the general "you"(which is used both formally and informally in modern English) is disrespectful when in fact "thou" and "thee" were brought in when they were informal, is just plain wrong.
I have in my hands a 1966 missal, I went to look up the opening of the mass, the beautiful Psalm 42 which converted me, and it is gone. Totally eliminated. So I'll go elsewhere to give examples of "you" and you tell me if a king was ever addressed as this?

O God, You give us life again
And Your people will rejoice in You
Show us Lord Your kindness
And grant us Your salvation
O Lord hear my prayer
And let my cry come to You

Take away from us our sins O Lord, we beseech You...

We beseech You, by the merits of your saints....