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Author Topic: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?  (Read 11454 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 12:56:15 PM »
Ladislaus, where is the Church with four marks?  

Certainly not in the Conciliar Church, which clearly lacks the marks.

To paraphrase +Tissier, the Catholic Church remains among those baptized Catholics who still profess the true faith.  Due to the fact that it's temporarily headless, like in any sedevacante period, it remains in eclipse (as per Our Lady of La Salette).  It's hidden behind this false Church that has emerged.  "The Church will be in eclipse.  Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist."

Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 01:04:24 PM »

 Fr Wathen was very clear that he was against sedevacantism, 1) because none us has authority to decide, 2) it's a distraction from our daily duties to God.  I don't know if Fr was ever confronted with the term 'sedeprivationism'; I would think he would agree with it (as he obviously believed its details).  But he always seemed more concentrated on dealing with the Great Conspiracy, which affects ALL aspects of society (the Church, politics, society, the economy etc), much more than just the papal question.
1) No serious Catholic who holds the sedevacantist position, that I know of, ever claimed to have any authority to decide, with authority, the papal question. We merely are taking Catholic principles from the vast majority of authorities (popes, theologians, Doctors of the Church) and applying them to the crisis we find ourselves in today.

2) It is not a distraction since it is the absolute duty of every Catholic to submit ourselves and to be subject to the reigning pontiff.

Actually he had it backwards, the ”Conspiracy” pales in importance when comparing it to the crisis in the Church and also to the papal question. Thankfully, it was the ”Conspiracy” that God used, in part, to bring me to tradition. After that, I paid less attention to political affairs and much more to religious ones.

Just because Father Wathen was a good and honorable priest that didn’t go along with the changes in the Church, it doesn’t mean that he was an infallible guide and that his opinion was perfect.


Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 01:08:42 PM »
Certainly not in the Conciliar Church, which clearly lacks the marks.
Absolutely, the NO church is not where one would find the four marks.

Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 01:19:24 PM »
Certainly not in the Conciliar Church, which clearly lacks the marks.

That's not an answer, but it's what I expected you to say.

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To paraphrase +Tissier, the Catholic Church remains among those baptized Catholics who still profess the true faith.

Very bad/heretical answer.  The baptized who profess the faith are only the material cause.  The material cause is only one of the marks (catholicity).  


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Due to the fact that it's temporarily headless, like in any sedevacante period, it remains in eclipse (as per Our Lady of La Salette).


It's not headless, and when it is (during an interregnum), the Church is not eclipsed.  It is still visible and it continues to possess the marks.



Quote
It's hidden behind this false Church that has emerged.  "The Church will be in eclipse.  Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist."

The Sun of the Church's brilliance is hidden behind the moon of corrupt men, who have temporarily blocked its light from shining.  During an eclipse the location of the Sun doesn't change.  It remains where it was before the light was blocked, and it gradually reappears in the same location as the obstacle is passes by.  So too, the Church remains where it was before the crisis broke out, and its light will again shine forth - and indeed is already beginning to shine forth, in spite of the last gasp and final efforts of its enemies.    


Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 01:21:54 PM »
Absolutely, the NO church is not where one would find the four marks.

Then what Church possesses them?  The "NO Church" is the only candidate.