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Author Topic: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?  (Read 11461 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2020, 02:58:58 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on January 13, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
It's not headless, and when it is (during an interregnum), the Church is not eclipsed.  It is still visible and it continues to possess the marks.

In a normal sedevacante period, it is headless (well, except that Christ remains the Head of the Church during that time), but is not typically in eclipse.  In this crisis, however, the Catholic Church is indeed most certainly eclipsed in addition to being headless (as in a sede period).  Of course, the Church is visible by definition, but the true society that is the Catholic Church is hidden behind the imposter Conciliar Church.  Most people wrongly think that it is the Church.  Eclipse does not mean that the object is no longer intrinsically visible, just that it's hidden behind something else ... as far as most of the world is concerned.  Yes, the Catholic Church continues to possess the marks, but the Conciliar Church most certainly does not.
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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2020, 02:59:40 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on January 13, 2020, 02:27:06 PM
3) Conclusion: To be a true Catholic and to save you soul, you must be in union with the Pope and your local Novus Ordo bishop, you must retain the true doctrine, traditions and liturgy, and you must avoid the errors and novelties.
I’m curious, what kind of “union” are you inferring that we are to have with your putative pope and ”Novus Ordo” bishop? Why don’t we profess the same faith if we are members of the same church?
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2020, 03:00:05 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on January 13, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
That's not an answer, but it's what I expected you to say.

Uhm, that was just the lead-in to my answer.  It's dishonest of you to characterize this part out of context with what follows.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2020, 03:03:48 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on January 13, 2020, 01:21:54 PM
Then what Church possesses them?  The "NO Church" is the only candidate.  

It demonstrably does NOT possess the marks.  It has only material Apostolicity, but not formal Apostolicity (cf. the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Apostolicity).  It certainly lacks Holiness, as its central act of Public Worship is anything but holy, is displeasing to God, and harmful to faith.  It has geographic Catholicity but has ruptured in time with the past Traditional Church.  As for being one, 95% of the NO are cafeteria Catholics, and there's hardly anything that resembles unity of belief in the Church.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2020, 03:07:35 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on January 13, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
The Sun of the Church's brilliance is hidden behind the moon of corrupt men, who have temporarily blocked its light from shining. 

But these corrupt men are standing in front of the Church and concealing it, and are not part of it.  No object is eclipsed by itself.  By definition almost, the eclipsing entity is not a part of the eclipsed entity.  You claim that the NO Church is the Church, but it's precisely the NO Church with its non-Catholic doctrine and worship that is causing the eclipse.
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