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Author Topic: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall  (Read 5233 times)

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Online DigitalLogos

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Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2022, 08:32:29 AM »
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  • And then there's the nonsense about how they're "fake" religious.  What does that mean these days?  All Traditional religious are technically fake religious.  No one is canonically approved where they would be considered official religious in normal times of the Church.  I give them the same respect as I do to other Traditional religious.
    That's a very good point. Endless respect is offered to the trad religious as long as they adhere to some "official" order, but very little to MHFM who are accused of being fake Benedictines when literally all trad religious vows these days are nothing more than personal vows. It's the same inconsistency where some will call Vigano "Archbishop" but then refuse to call some sede bishops "Bishop" when they doubt the orders of both.

    MHFM does honestly far more good through preaching and apologetics than most of the trad clergy out there because of their unrelenting orthodoxy. And it is far from unheard of for lay-religious to do this (the Franciscans, for starters) After watching the video in the OP, and seeing the St. Bellarmine quote, I actually have a better understanding of why they are forceful about pointing out heretics. This doesn't excuse their lack of charity by telling people not to pray for souls such as Bp. Dolan, or exaggerating someone's apparent heresy or apostasy as "radical" or what have you. So they need prayers in that regard, and you do see a softening of this with Dr. Marshall.

    Last night I came across an article which contains some insight into their view of heretics on material/formal grounds:


    Quote
    Material Heretic vs. Formal Heretic

    Some confuse this issue unnecessarily by employing the term “material heretic.”  Some of the people who have realized John Paul II’s major contradictions to Catholic teaching argue that John Paul II is merely a “material heretic”, not a real “formal heretic.”  “Material heretic” is a term used by theologians to describe a Catholic erring in good faith regarding some Church teaching, who has not denied it deliberately.  The only way that one can be a “material heretic” is by being unaware that the position that he holds is contrary to the teaching of the Church.  Such a person would change his position immediately upon being informed of the Church’s teaching on the matter.  Thus, a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic at all, but rather a confused Catholic who denies nothing of that which he knows the Church to have taught.  The fact that a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic is proven by the fact that a so-called “material heretic” does not cease to be part of the Church; and we have already proven that all heretics cease to be members of the Church.  Furthermore, a so-called “material heretic” (an erring Catholic) does not bring down on his head eternal punishment for denying the faith; and all heretics bring down on their heads eternal punishment for denying the faith.

    Pope St. Celestine I, Council of Ephesus, 431: “… ALL HERETICS corrupt the true expressions of the Holy Spirit with their own evil minds and they draw down on their own heads an inextinguishable flame.”

    A material heretic, therefore, is not a heretic, but a Catholic who is innocently mistaken about some Church teaching.  Hence, those who claim that John Paul II is unaware of the all of the dogmas that he denies, and is therefore only a quote “material heretic” (in other words, he is a mistaken Catholic) are not only arguing that which is absurd, but that which is IMPOSSIBLE.  It is impossible that John Paul II is only a so-called “material heretic” for three reasons:

    Number 1) It is a fact that Antipope John Paul II knows of the many dogmas of the Church which he denies.  For example, in the 1999 agreement with the Lutheran Church on Justification, approved by John Paul II, John Paul II agreed that the Council of Trent no longer applies.

    Vatican-Lutheran Agreement on the Doctrine of Justification, approved by John Paul II: “# 13.  IN LIGHT OF THIS CONSENSUS, THE CORRESPONDING DOCTRINAL CONDEMNATIONS OF THE 16TH CENTURY [i.e., the canons of the Council of Trent] DO NOT APPLY TO TODAY’S PARTNER.” (L’Osservatore Romano, Special Insert, Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification, November 24, 1999, #13)

    It goes without saying that he cannot be unaware of the Council of Trent if he holds that it no longer applies.  This, among other things, makes the claim that Antipope John Paul II is only a material heretic impossible.  In fact, John Paul II speaks 14 languages fluently, and has spoken and written intelligently on scholarly subjects more than most people would ever dream.  The amount of material that he has produced is actually staggering.  To assert that he is unaware of the simplest Church teachings that he denies is false and ridiculous in the highest degree.

    Number 2) It is impossible for Antipope John Paul II to be only a “material heretic” or a mistaken Catholic because – supposing for a moment that he were unaware of the multitudes of dogmas which he denies (which, as we have stated, is not true) – being a bishop and a man who claims to be the Pope, he is bound to have learned them.  Therefore, there is no excuse for his being unaware of the fundamental Church dogmas which he denies.

    Number 3) It is impossible that Antipope John Paul II is merely a material heretic because there are certain things that every adult must hold by a necessity of means in order to be a Catholic, and Antipope John Paul II does not hold those things.  To name just a few things: every adult Catholic must believe in the Trinity; that there is only one true Church; that there is only one true faith.  An adult Catholic must also believe that the true Church must be believed and that all non-Catholic religions are false.

    John Paul II rejects that there is only one true Church and one true faith, as we will show; he rejects that the Catholic Church should be believed by non-Catholics, by saying that we should not try to convert non-Catholics, as we will show; and he rejects the fact that non-Catholic religions are false, as we will show.  It is not possible for a person who has reached the age of reason to believe these things and still be a Catholic, because such a person does not believe in essential mysteries that must be believed by those who possess the true faith.

    https://vaticancatholic.com/anti-pope-john-paul-ii/




    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #91 on: May 17, 2022, 08:33:16 AM »
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  • When Vigano calls out Benedict XVI, I'll start to take him seriously.

    Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.


    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #92 on: May 17, 2022, 08:36:13 AM »
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  • Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.
    He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.

    I only brought up the YouTube algorithm as a point of note, this isn't to say +Vigano is "in on it" or anything. At worst TPTB may be using his position to divide and conquer Catholics, but, as we know, that will not work out in their favor given his recent swing to Catholic orthodoxy.
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #93 on: May 17, 2022, 08:43:58 AM »
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  • He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.

    SSPX says that V2 is 95% good and needs a few corrections (along the lines of Bishop Schneider).

    +Vigano recently said there should be an investigation into whether Bergoglio is legitimate.  He was dead set against the jab and calling out the conspiracy of the Plandemic.  His original June 9 letter (his anti-V2 manifesto) to Bishop Schneider called out all the V2 papal claimants, including Benedict XVI and said that the entire thing needed to be scrubbed.  He recently came out in favor of the pre-Pius XII Holy Week.

    So for those who claim he's some kind of controlled opposition, I insist that you provide an explanation of what exactly they're accomplishing.  Cui bono?  He's keeping people from going full-blown SV?  Nobody who wasn't against SVism in the first place.  If anything, he's drawing people mired in the conservative wing of the Conciliar Church to the right.  So why would the conspirators think that's a good idea?

    I can easily see +Fellay, +Schneider, and +Voris being controlled opposition ... but I have yet to see a credible charge against +Vigano nor a convincing explanation of what they're trying to accomplishing by raising up a figure like +Vigano.

    Offline LeMond

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #94 on: May 17, 2022, 09:03:25 AM »
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  • Nobody can bend heretics into human pretzels like the Dimond brothers :laugh1:


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #95 on: May 17, 2022, 09:35:01 AM »
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  • I have spoken to a well known Society priest about +Vigano and he informed me that the Society leadership considers him "too extreme" and want nothing to do with him.
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline Degrelle

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #96 on: May 17, 2022, 09:38:13 AM »
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  • I have spoken to a well known Society priest about +Vigano and he informed me that the Society leadership considers him "too extreme" and want nothing to do nothing him.
    Clearly I need to read/watch more of what +Vigano has to say. I'll admit I've largely ignored him as I tend to simply ignore everything that comes out of the Novus Ordo same as I ignore the Anglicans and Lutherans.

    Offline Jaycie

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #97 on: May 17, 2022, 10:15:53 AM »
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  • Didn't Mother Teresa set up EWTN with the help of Jєωιѕн money at the beginning so they are basically Novus Ordo with a light touch of Tradition, and they they are more or less part of the controlled opposition anyway.
    Correction:  of course I meant Mother Angelica not Mother Teresa!  Must have caught some of that brain fog from the vaxxed!  :cowboy:


    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #98 on: May 17, 2022, 10:16:08 AM »
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  • Clearly I need to read/watch more of what +Vigano has to say. I'll admit I've largely ignored him as I tend to simply ignore everything that comes out of the Novus Ordo same as I ignore the Anglicans and Lutherans.
    His letters tend to read kind of like papal encyclicals. He's been right on the mark the past couple of years ever since this scamdemic started. Here's some of his remarks about Vatican 2 from 2020
    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=12379

    On the "idolatry" of Vatican 2
    https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2021-02-03.html

    More:
    https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #99 on: May 17, 2022, 11:06:15 AM »
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  • Nobody can bend heretics into human pretzels like the Dimond brothers :laugh1:

    Yes, every once in a while, it's fun to watch them go after errors like bulldogs ... if they don't cross the line into bitterness. 

    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #100 on: May 17, 2022, 12:26:51 PM »
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  • ... So for those who claim he's some kind of controlled opposition, I insist that you provide an explanation of what exactly they're accomplishing. ...
    It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #101 on: May 17, 2022, 12:48:21 PM »
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  • It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.

    Your disagreeing with him on one or another opinion doesn't make him controlled opposition, especially when it's a political matter.  I doubt "they" deployed +Vigano a few years ago now just so he opine (in your opinion) wrongly about the Russia situation.  [He's right about that too.]  I could have seen it if he had been, say, shilling for the jab, but he's been condemning pretty much every step of the Globohomo / Globalist agenda.  So this is not particularly convincing.  In fact, it's as weak as all getout.

    So a plausible controlled op conspiracy theory would have been.  +Vigano comes out and wins the confidence of Trad Catholics.  Then when the Plandemic starts, he's telling people it's morally OK to get the jab.  Something like that would be plausible.  But he didn't shill for the jab ... he condemned it more strongly than most Trad groups.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #102 on: May 17, 2022, 02:27:44 PM »
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  • Quote
    Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots
    This has been going on for the last 40-50 years, where have you been?  The phrase "Right wing extremism" goes back to the 90s.  The Oklahoma bombing and the unibomber were supposedly white patriots who hated the govt.  Then the feds have been infiltrating militias for decades and blaming them for all manner of terrorism.


    Now, if you're white, have a normal marriage, have children you don't want corrupted by trannys, and you support 'building a wall' you're a racist nutjob.  This is just the culmination of decades of psychological warfare.

    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #103 on: May 17, 2022, 04:00:33 PM »
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  • Now, if you're white, have a normal marriage, have children you don't want corrupted by trannys, and you support 'building a wall' you're a racist nutjob.  This is just the culmination of decades of psychological warfare.
    That's literally how my wife reacted toward me this past weekend when we were out for a town festival and my daughter asked for a rainbow flag because some other girl had one. I said "hell no" and my wife decided to undercut me by telling my daughter that "I'm judgmental" quipping that it doesn't even effect me. I had to remind her that they literally teach this "shit" in schools these days to children, not to mention streaming and the internet. She decided to pout the rest of the afternoon after that and didn't bring it up again.

    It's insane how deep the psychological programming goes. I sympathize with her because it took me about 3 years and a conversion to Catholicism to undo it, I know it's hard. Yet my wife is still surprised of my views even though I have been a practicing Catholic for 4 years now. :facepalm::facepalm:
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    Offline gemmarose

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    Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
    « Reply #104 on: May 17, 2022, 04:01:07 PM »
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  • I attended a Indult Mass for a period of years. In 2014 the Dimond brothers wrote an article essentially saying Catholics shouldn't do this. I made the mistake of giving up attending. That's an issue they have no business binding consciences on. After that, I began to attend Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church.

     
    Thanks for your response. Yes, I have read what you mentioned about their article. I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etc..... I see how they act on social media and have screenshots.