I think they seem to take a harsher tone with those who are more obstinate in their errors, or, who have the training and authority (i.e trad clergy) to know better.
It's a good video. I think Dr. Marshall is getting closer to the truth as time goes on, so we should pray for him. And, admittedly, the more I've reflected on their material, I also think the Dimonds might be closer to the truth than anyone else on the interpretation of the current Crisis as the fulfillment of the Apocalypse. JPII was an antichrist, no doubt, THE Antichrist, perhaps, I find myself in agreement with them the more I've reflected on it. But, I can be wrong.
But their opinion about him being THE Antichrist, that's not a matter of doctrine:jester: Nor is it a matter of fact. It would be like "speculating" on a prophecy that held in the latter days there would be a great saintly priest, with the stigmata, that converted Islam and then making a video how this applies to St Padre Pio. :facepalm: But Padre Pio didn't convert Islam, one would counter, and he's been dead for multiple decades. "Oh", they would say, "it's still possible, through his intercession." :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
. JPII was an antichrist, no doubt, THE Antichrist, perhaps, I find myself in agreement with them the more I've reflected on it. But, I can be wrong.JP2 may have been AN antichrist but I nominate his predecessor Paul 6th as THE antichrist, the worst by far of a very bad lot of New Church "popes"!
• June 2006 Marshall writes in his post, My New Son - Jude Ambrose Josemaria, “Josemaria after St Josemaria Escriva, the founder of Opus Dei. I have gained a deep devotion to this holy man and his writings. I attend daily Mass at the St Josemaria Chapel (at the Catholic Information Center) and my boss (and father and friend) is a priest of Opus Dei. Also, my son was born on June 26, the feast day of St Josemaria.” https://web.archive.org/web/20130506164425/http:/www.taylormarshall.com/2006/06/my-new-son-jude-ambrose-josemaria.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20130506164425/http:/www.taylormarshall.com/2006/06/my-new-son-jude-ambrose-josemaria.html)
• October 2009 Marshall writes, “Did the founder of Opus Dei prophesy the Pope's Anglican Ordinariate? In a way, yes. According to Msgr. Bill Stetson, Saint Josemaria Escriva, the founder of Opus Dei, visited England back in 1958. He frequented many Anglican Churches and was keen on rekindling fervor in England for the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. While visiting an Anglican Church, Saint Josemaria Escriva said in Spanish, "If we don't lend them a hand, the Christian Faith will die away in fifty years." Well fifty years later (2008) the Anglican Communion became fractured through the ordination of active ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and by the general erosion of Christian orthodoxy. Fifty-one years later (2009) the Holy Father "lends a hand" by establishing the Anglican personal ordinariate. Pretty amazing if you ask me. Saint Josemaria had it just about right.” https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHZzudaWwAAA5QC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHZzudaWwAAA5QC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) Original link https://taylormarshall.com/2009/10/did-founder-of-opus-dei-prophecy-popes.html (https://taylormarshall.com/2009/10/did-founder-of-opus-dei-prophecy-popes.html)
• April 2014 Marshall writes, “I'm about to go to the Dallas Opus Dei recollection. Anyone else going tonight?” https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/415362745267756 (https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/415362745267756) And in the comments writes “I'm not a member. Just a groupie.” Was the recollection at the Wingren Study Center? https://wingrencenter.org/ (https://wingrencenter.org/)
• June 2015 In 2015 Taylor Marshall became a faculty member for The Rome Experience for seminarians. The Rome Experience, “is inspired by the thought and work of St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei” https://web.archive.org/web/20170909200100/https://taylormarshall.com/events/rome-experience (https://web.archive.org/web/20170909200100/https://taylormarshall.com/events/rome-experience)
• October 2016 Marshall writes post, Taylor Marshall is Part Jєωιѕн as it turns out https://web.archive.org/web/20170613222337/https://taylormarshall.com/2016/10/taylor-marshall-is-part-Jєωιѕн-as-it-turns-out.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20170613222337/https://taylormarshall.com/2016/10/taylor-marshall-is-part-Jєωιѕн-as-it-turns-out.html) In this post, “My uncle recently had a genealogical blood test that identified him as 19.3% αѕнкenαzι Jєωιѕн…which makes me 9.65% Jєωιѕн. [...] So this explains a few Jєωιѕн things in my life [...] So there you have it. My inner Jєω has been discreetly speaking all along.” As usual he removes this post.
• June 2018 The practical wisdom of St. Josemaría Escrivá is posted on the Troops of Saint George website. https://troopsofsaintgeorge.org/the-practical-wisdom-of-st-josemaria-escriva/ (https://troopsofsaintgeorge.org/the-practical-wisdom-of-st-josemaria-escriva/)
• October 2019 The great purge of Marshall’s social medias, particularly focused on twitter and his website. Twitter in September before the purge (20,100 tweets) https://web.archive.org/web/20190927144738/https://twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall (https://web.archive.org/web/20190927144738/https://twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall) & twitter in November (771 tweets) https://web.archive.org/web/20191110060828/https:/twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall (https://web.archive.org/web/20191110060828/https:/twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall) His website removes all mentions of Josemaria Escriba and most of Opus Dei. This happens the week before the ‘Pachamama Splash’ carried out by Alexander Tschugguel (Opus Dei connected if not a member, marriage instruction and married by Bp. Athanasius Schneider). The Pachamama statues were interestingly taken from the Church of Santa Maria in Traspontina. This church is the seat of Carndinal Marc Ouellet (former Archbishop of Quebec) who is a strong supporter of Opus Dei. https://www.opusdei.org/fr-ca/article/homelie-de-m-le-cardinal-marc-ouellet-archeveque-de-quebec/ (https://www.opusdei.org/fr-ca/article/homelie-de-m-le-cardinal-marc-ouellet-archeveque-de-quebec/) Two sites/people broke the story of ‘Pachamama Splash’ one being LifeSiteNews, Controversial Amazon Synod statues seized and thrown into the Tiber River (FULL VIDEO) https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-controversial-amazon-synod-statue-siezed-and-thrown-into-the-tiber-river-full-video (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-controversial-amazon-synod-statue-siezed-and-thrown-into-the-tiber-river-full-video) and the other being Taylor Marshall, The Idols of Pachamama in Rome Are Destroyed and Cast Into the Tiber River https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUTdDJT6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUTdDJT6Y) Could go on about the Opus Dei connections but this should suffice.
• No date Not certain of when he started his Patreon but Taylor Marshall has 794 people a month whom give him money. Donation levels start at $7 and move up to $15, $25, $50, $100, $1,000 per month or one can give him a giant donation through a custom pledge. https://www.patreon.com/join/drtaylormarshall (https://www.patreon.com/join/drtaylormarshall) This is how he can afford to make all those podcasts and youtube shows.
JP2 was not the antichrist. An 8th grader can read the cliffs notes on the Apocalypse and come to this conclusion. If one further reads the cliffs notes from the Church Fathers, they will see this theory is so crazy it's almost in the realm of heresy.Have you actually watched their material to see their argument? Dismissing it as an "8th grade can...come to this conclusion" isn't giving them a fair assessment when a lot of people these days, including trad Catholics, have Protestant understandings of the Apocalypse. I myself have fallen into this error time and time again.
As smart as the Dimond brothers are, why they keep talking about this is very concerning (it makes me question their sanity)...unless it's about $/sales.I completely disagree. It's public knowledge that they attained a couple million years ago from a donor who took them to court and they release their materials for free or at-cost. I don't at all buy that they do this for money
JP2 may have been AN antichrist but I nominate his predecessor Paul 6th as THE antichrist, the worst by far of a very bad lot of New Church "popes"!I'm not convinced, there's far more evidence to suggest that JPII was the image of the Beast (revived pagan rome) who was wounded and survived (1981 assassination attempt, and subsequent knife attack in 1982) than anything about the wicked Montini
I think they're all precursors, just like the false High Priests of the Maccabees before Christ Himself came into the world.I think that's agreeable. If he isn't the Man of Sin, as they opine, then he is the most wicked of precursors. The High Priests theory certainly supports the new pagan kings theory proposed simultaneously with their belief of JPII as the Image of the Beast and the Man of Sin.
Guys, if you say that JP2 (or anyone who is dead) is THE antichrist it shows you have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s not even up for debate.So you haven't watched any of their materials on why they believe this then
Scripture / Church Fathers / Saints are very clear on what the antichrist will do - setup a world govt, openly persecute the Church, he will kill the 2 witnesses, “rise from the dead” (fake miracles), and then die when attempting to “ascend to heaven”. Oh, and the Jєωs will worship him as Christ. And many, many other things (ie mark of the beast). This is LITERAL stuff, not figurative.
If you think anyone has done all of this already, then I am speechless and I question your sanity. :confused:
Guys, if you say that JP2 (or anyone who is dead) is THE antichrist it shows you have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s not even up for debate.Thank you! I've been saying this as well. I don't know how anyone can fall for JPII being THE Anti-Christ. I know people who have tried to tell Dimonds that it's not possible based on Scripture, Church Fathers and Saints, and other things but they will not relent. And yes personally I've watched all the Dimond stuff about it and just rolled my eyes. If you've read enough Church Fathers you will completely dismiss Dimonds on the issue. Protestants and others can also make convincing arguments that The Church is the Whore of Babylon but we know based on Scripture, Chruch Fathers, and Tradition, that this is just not true.
Scripture / Church Fathers / Saints are very clear on what the antichrist will do - setup a world govt, openly persecute the Church, he will kill the 2 witnesses, “rise from the dead” (fake miracles), and then die when attempting to “ascend to heaven”. Oh, and the Jєωs will worship him as Christ. And many, many other things (ie mark of the beast). This is LITERAL stuff, not figurative.
If you think anyone has done all of this already, then I am speechless and I question your sanity. :confused:
. Protestants and others can also make convincing arguments that The Church is the Whore of Babylon but we know based on Scripture, Chruch Fathers, and Tradition, that this is just not true.
Where was JPs mark of the beast? I guessed I missed that part of the 80s/90s where I had to have it to buy/sell? Where were the 2 witnesses who preached to the world and worked miracles? When did JP2 conquer armies and become ruler of the world? Etc etc etcYou do if you want to understand the argument they propose, since a video is how it's presented. Just dismissing it outright without inquiring as to why they say this, and how they support it, isn't being objective and I have no reason to continue responding to you on this subject until you do.
He didn’t. So he wasn’t the antichrist. I don’t have to watch some video to know this. It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Maybe the Vat.2 new church is "the Whore of Babylon"?Exactly. And that is precisely what they teach in identifying the Whore as the new church directed out of pagan Rome.
New church is not the Catholic Church.
It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.Nah. Trad clergy believing that salvation exists outside the Church trumps it.
. And that is precisely what they teach in identifying the Whore as the new church directed out of pagan Rome.I didn't know they identify 'new church' as 'the whore'. (I haven't watched many of their videos) but the way "new church" is going, it seems to be turning into the "Whore of Babylon" right before our eyes!
Nah. Trad clergy believing that salvation exists outside the Church trumps it.Amen to that.
I agree with Lad. If they get it wrong on JPII, so what. They get far more right than anyone else out there.
Some may ask: "If Rome is the 'great city,' why does Apocalypse 11:8 say that the great city is the place where Our Lord was crucified, which is Jerusalem?" The answer is that it doesn’t actually say that:
Apoc. 11:8 - “[the two witnesses] shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, even where their Lord was crucified.”
Notice that, contrary to what some have claimed, the Apocalypse doesn’t clearly state that the two witnesses (which some believe describe Peter and Paul) are killed in the city where Our Lord was crucified. Notice that the passage could very well mean that the great city is called Sodom and Egypt even where their Lord was crucified. In other words, the great city, Rome, is referred to as “Sodom” and “Egypt” as far away as Jerusalem (where their Lord was crucified) because of its immoralities! This makes sense when we consider that Rome was notorious for its corruption. Hence, this passage doesn’t clearly prove, as some have suggested, that Jerusalem must be the great city.
https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/apocalypse/
I didn't know they identify 'new church' as 'the whore'. (I haven't watched many of their videos) but the way "new church" is going, it seems to be turning into the "Whore of Babylon" right before our eyes!If I remember, they lay out that theory in this video
You do if you want to understand the argument they propose, since a video is how it's presented. Just dismissing it outright without inquiring as to why they say this, and how they support it, isn't being objective and I have no reason to continue responding to you on this subject until you do.I've watched one of their videos before. I'm dismissing it because you can pick up any book which quotes the Church Fathers/Scripture on the Apocalypse and they are WAY off. The Diamonds are arguing JP2 based on symbolism and figurative language. But the Church Fathers tells us, infallibly, which parts of the Apocalypse will happen LITERALLY and which are figurative. The Diamonds are way off.
For all we know, Abp. Lefebvre and Bp. de Castro Mayer could have been the prophesied two witnesses, who died spiritually by initially accepting JPII's proposal for the consecrations, but then rose again by defying them. God only knows.Yes, they could have been prefigurements of the 2 witnesses but they are not the ACTUAL 2 witnesses. Go read scripture. It tells us that the 2 witnesses will preach all over the world, work miracles, be martyred in the streets of jerusalem/rome (I can't remember) and lie there 3 days for all the world to see. Then God will resurrect them, people will convert and on the story goes.
I've watched one of their videos before. I'm dismissing it because you can pick up any book which quotes the Church Fathers/Scripture on the Apocalypse and they are WAY off. The Diamonds are arguing JP2 based on symbolism and figurative language. But the Church Fathers tells us, infallibly, which parts of the Apocalypse will happen LITERALLY and which are figurative. The Diamonds are way off.No. They don't. They utilize both the literal and figurative sense (for example, JPII being wounded mortally and then healed is a literal interpretation of Apoc. 13:3) You would know that if you would actually hear their arguments before immediately dismissing them as "way off" because you're incredulous about JPII being the Antichrist.
Yes, they could have been prefigurements of the 2 witnesses but they are not the ACTUAL 2 witnesses. Go read scripture. It tells us that the 2 witnesses will preach all over the world, work miracles, be martyred in the streets of jerusalem/rome (I can't remember) and lie there 3 days for all the world to see. Then God will resurrect them, people will convert and on the story goes.
This is what will ACTUALLY happen. This is not symbolism. Has this happened yet? No. Therefore...JP2 isn't the antichrist nor are +ABL/+Meyer the witnesses. The Diamonds are making the complex topic of Apocalypse MORE complex by ignoring the few literal facts that the Church has given us.
for example, JPII being wounded mortally and then healed is a literal interpretation of Apoc. 13:3Just because JP2 *might* fulfill 1 of 25 details that are infallible doesn't mean we can speculate. If JP2 doesn't fulfill 25 of 25 (to use an example) and not even the obvious ones (i.e. he will lead armies and rule the world) then he isn't him.
If I remember, they lay out that theory in this video
https://youtu.be/SPs7jdfaib0
Otherwise, you can read the following article if you don't want to spend 40 minutes on a video
https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/apocalypse/
If I remember, they lay out that theory in this video
Otherwise, you can read the following article if you don't want to spend 40 minutes on a video
https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/apocalypse/
I've watched one of their videos before. I'm dismissing it because you can pick up any book which quotes the Church Fathers/Scripture on the Apocalypse and they are WAY off. The Diamonds are arguing JP2 based on symbolism and figurative language. But the Church Fathers tells us, infallibly, which parts of the Apocalypse will happen LITERALLY and which are figurative. The Diamonds are way off.You need to watch many of their videos. It's time consuming, I know, but the speed up feature helps. The reason why you need to watch many of their videos is because they don't tie up all the loose ends in one, and though there may be much repetition across a few of their videos, each contains some important bits of information that are essential to their whole explanation of the apocalypse. You may find that what they include in a somewhat unrelated video (at least title wise) should have been included in other videos.
Yes, they could have been prefigurements of the 2 witnesses but they are not the ACTUAL 2 witnesses. Go read scripture. It tells us that the 2 witnesses will preach all over the world, work miracles, be martyred in the streets of jerusalem/rome (I can't remember) and lie there 3 days for all the world to see. Then God will resurrect them, people will convert and on the story goes.
This is what will ACTUALLY happen. This is not symbolism. Has this happened yet? No. Therefore...JP2 isn't the antichrist nor are +ABL/+Meyer the witnesses. The Diamonds are making the complex topic of Apocalypse MORE complex by ignoring the few literal facts that the Church has given us.
The Dimonds used to say Benedict XV was the first king
I believe it was Pius XI ... since the Lateran Treaty created the Vatican state in 1929. That part makes some sense.Correct.
:facepalm: I don’t need to watch a video to tell me that there’s not been a global dictator yet and also no mark of the beast. This is just common sense.The Antichrist wouldn't be much of a deceiver if he came waving a flag saying that he is the Antichrist. There wouldn't be Scripture saying that the elect will be deceived (Matt. 24:24) or sent the operation of error to believe lies (2 Thess. 2:10) if we know exactly who he is when he comes. Nor would there be a false prophet (Apoc. 19:20) who fits the bill of Ratzinger and/or Bergoglio, to continue his false gospel after Antichrist dies.
I believe it was Pius XI ... since the Lateran Treaty created the Vatican state in 1929. That part makes some sense.USED TO. They did this when JP II was alive.
USED TO. They did this when JP II was alive.Doesn't anyone remember the dimonds claimed Benedict XV was the first king of the apocalypse then switched to Pius XI? lol
The Dimonds used to say Benedict XV was the first kingYou are correct. They change it to fit their antichrist idea. Scroll down to Most Holy Family Issue #2 page 18 Most "Holy" Family Monastery…A doctrine of Ambiguity, Condemnations and Haste (todayscatholicworld.com) (http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/dims-refuted.htm)
DigitalLogos,They address these things in the videos provided. Furthermore, they're proving that he is the Antichrist, not what comes immediately after, which still could be what you say nor do they deny that.
You're not thinking this all the way through. What is supposed to happen AFTER the antichrist is defeated by Christ's breath (which never happened to JP2, btw)? After antichrist is defeated, then there is PEACE; and the Jєωs return to the Church. And there is a period of restoration for the Church until Christ suddenly comes to end the world.
When was the period of peace/restoration of the church post JP2? When did the Jєωs finally convert to the Church?
p.s. When was the 'mark of the beast' in the 80s/90s? This is the most obvious error, yet you've not answered it.
I suggest you go read summaries of what the Church Fathers have said, and also other saints. TAN has published a few small pamphlets on the topic. Christ has not left us wondering what will happen in the later days...He has given us, through the Saints, a broad outline of what will happen, that we may not be deceived. Those who know the truth won't be deceived, just like those who knew their Faith weren't deceived by V2.
You are correct. They change it to fit their antichrist idea. Scroll down to Most Holy Family Issue #2 page 18 Most "Holy" Family Monastery…A doctrine of Ambiguity, Condemnations and Haste (todayscatholicworld.com) (http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/dims-refuted.htm)
I'm not a Vatican 2ite, but this video by Mark is interesting. I don't agree with the JP II antichrist idea. What about apocalypse 11 & the 2 witnesses? They are going to be killed by antichrist and lay in the street for three days? Shine On You Crazy Dimonds, Part I: MHFM's Literally R*tarded Eisegesis of Scripture - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE2yPTbxI4w&t=220s)
Doesn't anyone remember the dimonds claimed Benedict XV was the first king of the apocalypse then switched to Pius XI? lolYou only come out of the woodwork when the Dimonds are spoken of. Get over your personal grudge.
USED TO. They did this when JP II was alive.
So they reassessed their thesis once it became apparent that Bergoglio is not one of the seven kings? So what? The timeline is undeniable once that was made clear.YEP! they have changed it a few times, can they ever admit they are wrong?
Hi everyone, just make sure you reject bod and receive the sacraments from a valid priest, attend Mass & stay away from Vatican II. Do your best to stay in the state of grace. Who the antichrist is, is NOT dogma, so settle down. Yep, the dimonds were wrong. That's all.I agree. It's not me getting outraged over this. I even said I didn't wholly accept their theory, just that he would be the most plausible character given what's prophesied in SCRIPTURE (not simply private revelations)
I agree. It's not me getting outraged over this. I even said I didn't wholly accept their theory, just that he would be the most plausible character given what's prophesied in SCRIPTURE (not simply private revelations)Why can't I click the thumbs up or down on this website? Anyways, I don't approve of Ibranyi, but he says the whore of babylon is the usa, especially new york and rome added in that. His video is interesting. http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/audios/lectures/rjmi/alr0055_apocalypse18_2008.mp3
They're certainly right about the Conciliar church being the Whore of Babylon.
Hello again, the dimonds said the maitreya was the antichrist in the late 90's in their Biblical End Times prophecies video.And? I used to think the Novus Ordo was the Catholic Church and John Paul II was a legitimate Pope, what's your point? Prophesy can only be recognised once it has unfolded, which means changing one's positions.
I've read much of what the Diamonds have written, and it's very good....because it's based on doctrine.They do. You are just refusing to look at their material on it because it doesn't fit the stereotypical image of the Antichrist as some sort of politician or Emperor. Even if they missed the mark on JPII, their thesis is still much closer to identifying the end times than, let's say, Yves Dupont, and others who keep looking at the world.
They need to apply the same approach to the end times. Otherwise they wouldn't make so many mistakes (which, in a small way, hurts their credibility).
Why can't I click the thumbs up or down on this website? Anyways, I don't approve of Ibranyi, but he says the whore of babylon is the usa, especially new york and rome added in that. His video is interesting. http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/audios/lectures/rjmi/alr0055_apocalypse18_2008.mp3You have to have around 100 posts to vote, I believe. Edit: LOL which you just hit with that post :laugh1:
Lol at all of the haters piping up. This is part of why I bring up MHFM so much on this forum, they are 95+% correct on everything but people look for every reason possible to drag them. Classic. I will keep promoting them where they speak the truth because I guarantee they have converted more people to traditional Catholicism than all members on here combined. Additionally I hope you all pray for them every night because they are definitively the best Catholic content creators right now. People should pause to think why they convert so many.Gemmarose is the only legitimate hater of MHFM here. I didn't once believe that Pax was among them.
I can attest the Dimonds have strengthened my family's faith considerably with their books on UFOs, Padre Pio, their apologetics content and debates. God bless the Dimonds, I really hope in the future they will do more spirituality content but I understand there are just so many pressing matters.
Gemmarose is the only legitimate hater of MHFM here. I didn't once believe that Pax was among them.There are others who criticize them here but they haven't posted in this thread yet ;)
There are others who criticize them here but they haven't posted in this thread yet ;)Ah yes, I meant in this thread :cowboy:
Lol at all of the haters piping up. This is part of why I bring up MHFM so much on this forum, they are 95+% correct on everything but people look for every reason possible to drag them. Classic. I will keep promoting them where they speak the truth because I guarantee they have converted more people to traditional Catholicism than all members on here combined. Additionally I hope you all pray for them every night because they are definitively the best Catholic content creators right now. People should pause to think why they convert so many.Lol, who used the word "hate" buddy? It's hateful to just tell the truth? weird
I can attest the Dimonds have strengthened my family's faith considerably with their books on UFOs, Padre Pio, their apologetics content and debates. God bless the Dimonds, I really hope in the future they will do more spirituality content but I understand there are just so many pressing matters.
the stereotypical image of the Antichrist as some sort of politician or Emperor.Except most Church Fathers (maybe it's unanimous) say he will be ruler of the world (in a political AND religious sense). This isn't allegory it's literal.
And? I used to think the Novus Ordo was the Catholic Church and John Paul II was a legitimate Pope, what's your point? Prophesy can only be recognised once it has unfolded, which means changing one's positions.I haven't believed JP II was the pope for like since the 90's, what's your point? I believed Vatican II is not the church since the 90's dude before the dimonds, what's your point? Your're upset because I'm pointing out their mistakes and correcting what people are saying on here? What's your problem? Can the dimonds ever admit they got their ideas wrong? I've looked at their material and that's how I found out they got thing wrong, like their video they had out in the 90's called Bilical End Times prophecies, you probably were wearing diapers, lol.
They do. You are just refusing to look at their material on it because it doesn't fit the stereotypical image of the Antichrist as some sort of politician or Emperor. Even if they missed the mark on JPII, their thesis is still much closer to identifying the end times than, let's say, Yves Dupont, and others who keep looking at the world.
You have to have around 100 posts to vote, I believe. Edit: LOL which you just hit with that post :laugh1:
Gemmarose is the only legitimate hater of MHFM here. I didn't once believe that Pax was among them.Um, you are committing detraction, show me where I said I "hate" the dimonds. Then publicly apologize to me & go to confession. I'm only correcting what ya'll on a few issues, like their antichrist issue and why they thought was and when. It's not dogma, so what's your problem?
Um, you are committing detraction, show me where I said I "hate" the dimonds. Then publicly apologize to me & go to confession. I'm only correcting what ya'll on a few issues, like their antichrist issue and why they thought was and when. It's not dogma, so what's your problem?I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.
Except most Church Fathers (maybe it's unanimous) say he will be ruler of the world (in a political AND religious sense). This isn't allegory it's literal.And is not the Supreme Pontiff (legitimate or no) the highest earthly authority in a political and religious sense?
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.I'm a "hater" because I'm pointing out to you all that they made mistakes? lol just apologize for your slander against me. I believe in all the correct dogmas, against Vatican II & the popes, against bod & nfp before the dimonds. I don't need to believe in the dimonds or their antichrist, what's your problem?
My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.Do you attend Mass? Seems some dimonites can't answer that question. Answer, Yes or No.
My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
Lol, who used the word "hate" buddy? It's hateful to just tell the truth? weirdI never used hate. I used "hater". Since you aren't going to charitably interpret common parlance I am done here.
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.Did you know in their video in the late 90's Fred said the Maitreya could be the antichrist? What do you have to say about the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11? They are supposed to be killed by the antichrist and lay in the street for 3 days. Does fred & Bob think JP II is going to come back to life and get them? since some of their supporter's think they might be the 2 witnesses? lol
My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
I never used hate. I used "hater". Since you aren't going to charitably interpret common parlance I am done here.Ok whatever, bye bye
I never used hate. I used "hater". Since you aren't going to charitably interpret common parlance I am done here.You're still wrong you used "hater" I never said I was a "hater" waiting for an apology.
Hello All,My family will pray for you nightly.
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Did you know in their video in the late 90's Fred said the Maitreya could be the antichrist? What do you have to say about the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11? They are supposed to be killed by the antichrist and lay in the street for 3 days. Does fred & Bob think JP II is going to come back to life and get them? since some of their supporter's think they might be the 2 witnesses? lol
Hello All,Ok, here I said could be. This crossroads dude has a video called " And That's What's going to happen" it has parts of that old video Fred made in it. At least Ibranyi can publicly correct his mistakes. I don't see the dimonds do that, why? pride? embarrassment?
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
My family will pray for you nightly.Thank you.
Hello All,Here is some info, they were asking for financial assistance. Was this before the 1.6 million or after? How much money did they get? SEPT APPEAL LETTER (schismatic-home-aloner.com) (https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/christmas_letter.pdf)
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Hello All,I don't disagree with a single thing you have said. Their attitude is the most concerning thing about them, and I've posted about that many times here before (the Bp. Dolan thread being the most recent). It's obviously a hidden pride that is effecting them in their exchanges with others, so I've been praying for them.
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Hello All,Fred didn't want to hear what Richard Ibranyi had to say about sedevacantism, Richard converted Peter before Fred. The story is in this video. Living at Most Holy Family Monastery (MHFM) with the Dimond Brothers for 17 months (audio testimony) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmeLgIl7RQ&t=63s)
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Hello All,Since you were an avid supporter of the dimonds, did you attend Mass?
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Hello All,Dimond's claim Natale had certain miraculous spiritual gifts & that God told Natale they would be the "beacon light of Catholicism before the end of the world." Why wouldn't God tell him that Jp II was the antichrist then? Here is a video from a ex dimond supporter. The Bad Will of Brother Joseph Natale, Founder of MHFM (schismatic-home-aloner) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOSUUkmvpCE&t=196s)
I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.
There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.
As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.
There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.
A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.
I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues. These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.
In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."
We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.
There shall be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall govern the world.
We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.
I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.
In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
You only come out of the woodwork when the Dimonds are spoken of. Get over your personal grudge.Hi, I don't have a grudge. Why is it called a grudge when I'm just correcting their ideas?
You only come out of the woodwork when the Dimonds are spoken of. Get over your personal grudge.Are you a 100% dimond supporter? Do you attend a valid Mass? Do you get paid by the dimonds to falsely accuse people (me)? All I'm doing is telling the truth! I don't believe in bod and reject Vatican II. So, what's your problem?
https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2020/04/infiltration-who-is-really-doing-it.html
Excerpts:
You can believe what you like about him, but linked above is a handy list and it only goes deeper if you actually do some research into Taylor Marshall and Opus Dei.
There was a recent MHFM video on tradservative persona Anthony Stine aka "Return To Tradition" which showed that the Google algorithm actually SELECTS for Vigano tags, rather than hides him. That's suspicious to me.
Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.
Hello again, the dimonds said the maitreya was the antichrist in the late 90's in their Biblical End Times prophecies video.Hello again. Ok so here is the exact quote Frederick Dimond said in the 90's version "Biblical End Times Prophecies" "Now the person I think may very well be the Antichrist, a man called Lord Maitreya. I don't know absolutely. I'm not saying I know these things. I'm just putting out information. It's up to you to decide." Then they changed that to the different popes they were calling antichrists, which it reminds me of protestant theories. That's all.
Since you were an avid supporter of the dimonds, did you attend Mass?I attended a Indult Mass for a period of years. In 2014 the Dimond brothers wrote an article essentially saying Catholics shouldn't do this. I made the mistake of giving up attending. That's an issue they have no business binding consciences on. After that, I began to attend Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church.
I don't disagree with a single thing you have said. Their attitude is the most concerning thing about them, and I've posted about that many times here before (the Bp. Dolan thread being the most recent). It's obviously a hidden pride that is effecting them in their exchanges with others, so I've been praying for them.Yes, I myself have suspected that Pride may be effecting them. For instance, in 2010 in their series "Is the world about to end?" they mention that they believe the volcanic eruption in Iceland is one of the vials of the Apocalypse being poured on the beast. In the Bro. Peter Dimond says "Its quite interesting this week as we were finalizing the more important of this recent video series, that we believe the EU is part of the beast, a volcano erupted in Iceland. Sending a dark ash cloud over Europe..."
As for the JPII is Antichrist subject, like I initially said I agree with a lot of their points which prove without a doubt that JPII was AN Antichrist, it remains to be seen if he is THE Antichrist, but again, their evidence is compelling.
I'll pray for you.
This is good dxcat40
Marshall is funded celebrity, an Opus judei talking head operative. He's a Jєω and admitted lover of the JPII fake saint, Jose Escriva.
Marshall replaced the tired-out, ex queer and fake trad, Michael Voris, who broadcasts his rants from an old Opus judei office building.
Opus judei uses imposter traditionalist as "talking heads" to herd the Catholic remnant.
Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.
Hello All,
...
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers.
...
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
From what I understand, and I haven't read the book so correct me if I'm wrong, but I've asked people who have read Taylor Marshall's book, Infiltration, and it seems to leave out a certain group of people involved.
...
With all of his research on the Freemasonic infiltration of the Church, why he didn't come across this information?
He also refused to have E Michael Jones (another shill but one who discusses the JQ) on his show. I wonder why?
It's probably because he's terrified of the backlash and of being called Anti-semitic. ...
Spanish Jєω Reveals Secret History of Opus JudeiThe following explanation is sent by a collaborator of Hebrew origin and Kabbalistic practice who for years was shown as Catholic, but who finally decided to make use of her secret identity to particularize and clarify some of the practices of kabbalists who infiltrated in the Catholic Church for centuries, and now in the Neo Conciliar Church.On this occasion he reveals to us something of what had spread about the Marrano José María Escriv(b)a [note: parenthetical spelling might refer to Escriva’s name change from the judaic Escriba] to Balaguer y Albás, founder of Opus Dei, and he does it from the Hebrew point of view:When you talk about the Opus Dei as Kabbalists, you have to specify something. They are not just a group of people who practice the Hebrew kabbalah disguised as devout Catholics, but something else.…
. That's one reason I admire Patrick Coffin's recently coming out as a Bennyvacantist (even though I disagree with the position itself). That pretty much put a nail in the coffin (pun intended) of his EWTN appearances, and he's going to be more and more marginalized from his normal sources of income. I had been in the habit of listening to his show in the afternoons on EWTN radio, as I went to pick up my kids from school every day about that time. And I sensed more and more that he was becoming hostile to Bergoglio and a few times came within a hair's breadth of calling Bergoglio an outright heretic. So I was wondering how much longer before his show was off the air. I was not mistaken in detecting that tone from him.
I always felt strange when I saw Marshall at mass.
This is good dxcat40
Marshall is funded celebrity, an Opus judei talking head operative. He's a Jєω and admitted lover of the JPII fake saint, Jose Escriva.
Marshall replaced the tired-out, ex queer and fake trad, Michael Voris, who broadcasts his rants from an old Opus judei office building.
Opus judei uses imposter traditionalist as "talking heads" to herd the Catholic remnant.
Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.
And then there's the nonsense about how they're "fake" religious. What does that mean these days? All Traditional religious are technically fake religious. No one is canonically approved where they would be considered official religious in normal times of the Church. I give them the same respect as I do to other Traditional religious.That's a very good point. Endless respect is offered to the trad religious as long as they adhere to some "official" order, but very little to MHFM who are accused of being fake Benedictines when literally all trad religious vows these days are nothing more than personal vows. It's the same inconsistency where some will call Vigano "Archbishop" but then refuse to call some sede bishops "Bishop" when they doubt the orders of both.
Material Heretic vs. Formal Heretic
Some confuse this issue unnecessarily by employing the term “material heretic.” Some of the people who have realized John Paul II’s major contradictions to Catholic teaching argue that John Paul II is merely a “material heretic”, not a real “formal heretic.” “Material heretic” is a term used by theologians to describe a Catholic erring in good faith regarding some Church teaching, who has not denied it deliberately. The only way that one can be a “material heretic” is by being unaware that the position that he holds is contrary to the teaching of the Church. Such a person would change his position immediately upon being informed of the Church’s teaching on the matter. Thus, a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic at all, but rather a confused Catholic who denies nothing of that which he knows the Church to have taught. The fact that a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic is proven by the fact that a so-called “material heretic” does not cease to be part of the Church; and we have already proven that all heretics cease to be members of the Church. Furthermore, a so-called “material heretic” (an erring Catholic) does not bring down on his head eternal punishment for denying the faith; and all heretics bring down on their heads eternal punishment for denying the faith.
Pope St. Celestine I, Council of Ephesus, 431: “… ALL HERETICS corrupt the true expressions of the Holy Spirit with their own evil minds and they draw down on their own heads an inextinguishable flame.”
A material heretic, therefore, is not a heretic, but a Catholic who is innocently mistaken about some Church teaching. Hence, those who claim that John Paul II is unaware of the all of the dogmas that he denies, and is therefore only a quote “material heretic” (in other words, he is a mistaken Catholic) are not only arguing that which is absurd, but that which is IMPOSSIBLE. It is impossible that John Paul II is only a so-called “material heretic” for three reasons:
Number 1) It is a fact that Antipope John Paul II knows of the many dogmas of the Church which he denies. For example, in the 1999 agreement with the Lutheran Church on Justification, approved by John Paul II, John Paul II agreed that the Council of Trent no longer applies.
Vatican-Lutheran Agreement on the Doctrine of Justification, approved by John Paul II: “# 13. IN LIGHT OF THIS CONSENSUS, THE CORRESPONDING DOCTRINAL CONDEMNATIONS OF THE 16TH CENTURY [i.e., the canons of the Council of Trent] DO NOT APPLY TO TODAY’S PARTNER.” (L’Osservatore Romano, Special Insert, Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification, November 24, 1999, #13)
It goes without saying that he cannot be unaware of the Council of Trent if he holds that it no longer applies. This, among other things, makes the claim that Antipope John Paul II is only a material heretic impossible. In fact, John Paul II speaks 14 languages fluently, and has spoken and written intelligently on scholarly subjects more than most people would ever dream. The amount of material that he has produced is actually staggering. To assert that he is unaware of the simplest Church teachings that he denies is false and ridiculous in the highest degree.
Number 2) It is impossible for Antipope John Paul II to be only a “material heretic” or a mistaken Catholic because – supposing for a moment that he were unaware of the multitudes of dogmas which he denies (which, as we have stated, is not true) – being a bishop and a man who claims to be the Pope, he is bound to have learned them. Therefore, there is no excuse for his being unaware of the fundamental Church dogmas which he denies.
Number 3) It is impossible that Antipope John Paul II is merely a material heretic because there are certain things that every adult must hold by a necessity of means in order to be a Catholic, and Antipope John Paul II does not hold those things. To name just a few things: every adult Catholic must believe in the Trinity; that there is only one true Church; that there is only one true faith. An adult Catholic must also believe that the true Church must be believed and that all non-Catholic religions are false.
John Paul II rejects that there is only one true Church and one true faith, as we will show; he rejects that the Catholic Church should be believed by non-Catholics, by saying that we should not try to convert non-Catholics, as we will show; and he rejects the fact that non-Catholic religions are false, as we will show. It is not possible for a person who has reached the age of reason to believe these things and still be a Catholic, because such a person does not believe in essential mysteries that must be believed by those who possess the true faith.
https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-john-paul-ii/
When Vigano calls out Benedict XVI, I'll start to take him seriously.
Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.
He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.
I have spoken to a well known Society priest about +Vigano and he informed me that the Society leadership considers him "too extreme" and want nothing to do nothing him.Clearly I need to read/watch more of what +Vigano has to say. I'll admit I've largely ignored him as I tend to simply ignore everything that comes out of the Novus Ordo same as I ignore the Anglicans and Lutherans.
Didn't Mother Teresa set up EWTN with the help of Jєωιѕн money at the beginning so they are basically Novus Ordo with a light touch of Tradition, and they they are more or less part of the controlled opposition anyway.Correction: of course I meant Mother Angelica not Mother Teresa! Must have caught some of that brain fog from the vaxxed! :cowboy:
Clearly I need to read/watch more of what +Vigano has to say. I'll admit I've largely ignored him as I tend to simply ignore everything that comes out of the Novus Ordo same as I ignore the Anglicans and Lutherans.His letters tend to read kind of like papal encyclicals. He's been right on the mark the past couple of years ever since this scamdemic started. Here's some of his remarks about Vatican 2 from 2020
Nobody can bend heretics into human pretzels like the Dimond brothers :laugh1:
... So for those who claim he's some kind of controlled opposition, I insist that you provide an explanation of what exactly they're accomplishing. ...It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.
It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.
Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the PatriotsThis has been going on for the last 40-50 years, where have you been? The phrase "Right wing extremism" goes back to the 90s. The Oklahoma bombing and the unibomber were supposedly white patriots who hated the govt. Then the feds have been infiltrating militias for decades and blaming them for all manner of terrorism.
Now, if you're white, have a normal marriage, have children you don't want corrupted by trannys, and you support 'building a wall' you're a racist nutjob. This is just the culmination of decades of psychological warfare.That's literally how my wife reacted toward me this past weekend when we were out for a town festival and my daughter asked for a rainbow flag because some other girl had one. I said "hell no" and my wife decided to undercut me by telling my daughter that "I'm judgmental" quipping that it doesn't even effect me. I had to remind her that they literally teach this "shit" in schools these days to children, not to mention streaming and the internet. She decided to pout the rest of the afternoon after that and didn't bring it up again.
I attended a Indult Mass for a period of years. In 2014 the Dimond brothers wrote an article essentially saying Catholics shouldn't do this. I made the mistake of giving up attending. That's an issue they have no business binding consciences on. After that, I began to attend Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church.Thanks for your response. Yes, I have read what you mentioned about their article. I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etc..... I see how they act on social media and have screenshots.
Thanks for your response. Yes, I have read what you mentioned about their article. I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etc..... I see how they act on social media and have screenshots.Just to make it clear....A valid Mass with a validly ordained priest, not Vatican II.
I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etcThat's a legitimate point. I know how I get when I've gone even a couple weeks without them. All we can do is pray for them.
Your disagreeing with him on one or another opinion doesn't make him controlled opposition, especially when it's a political matter. ...
This has been going on for the last 40-50 years, where have you been? ...
That's a legitimate point. I know how I get when I've gone even a couple weeks without them. All we can do is pray for them.I would thumb up your response, but I can't because I'm not allowed.:laugh1:
How can he actually believe this? In April 2022?He doesn't have impeccable judgment perhaps?
The Dimonds, Voris, Marshall and Archbishop Vigano have good script writers.Prove it. I don't believe any of it unless you provide evidence. Otherwise its just baseless detraction of the Dimonds, +Vigano and Voris.
What you need to consider, is that for the last 2,000 years the Jєωs have covertly attacked Catholicism through propaganda wars. They their money to fund ghost writers.
For example, in 2006, the Dimonds published a brilliant sleight-of-handle article denouncing the Fatima devotion to the Consecration of Russia to Mother Mary’s Immaculate Heart. The Dimonds didn’t write this.
They are just a front for Jєω propagandists.
Now, 90% of their publications sound good, but they are just rebranding other trad media.
Who on this forum has gone to meet the Dimonds, seen their workshops and know who is on their team? I know of a trad who tried to visit them and he was not allowed anywhere near the place.
And who funds the Dimonds?
They were giving out cases of DVD, “dark sede”stuff for decades. Their mission is to demonize every trad priest or bishop they can spot.
Voris: What a joke, that Notre Dame “queen” is spoon fed Opus Dei scripts every week.
Taylor Marshall… another miraculous Marrano convert who became a media giant over night? Do you really believe it?
And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night!
Who writes his stuff? The writing does not match the way he speaks.
And writing is really all he’s doing. And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.
Give me a talking head, who will slam the Jєωs, who will expose Opus judei…
And give me Bishop who doesn’t write ✍️ but one who ordains priests… to provide the Sacraments to the remnant as the whole world is being genocided.
When the Dimonds get taken offline or jailed will they still be considered Jєω agents or what :jester:They'll have "completed their mission" or "went dark" or some other explanation. :laugh1:
It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.
He doesn't have impeccable judgment perhaps?
And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night!Yes, he needs to DO more than write starting with getting truly consecrated and helping ordain true priests. Stop cowering in his hidden location. And last but not least, stop pussy footing around with Bergoglio: announce the Seat is Vacant.
Who writes his stuff? The writing does not match the way he speaks.
And writing is really all he’s doing. And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.
Yes, he needs to DO more than write starting with getting truly consecrated and helping ordain true priests. Stop cowering in his hidden location. And last but not least, stop pussy footing around with Bergoglio: announce the Seat is Vacant.
Then I'll put some hope in him.
And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night!
Who writes his stuff? The writing does not match the way he speaks.
And writing is really all he’s doing. And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.
Give me a talking head, who will slam the Jєωs, who will expose Opus judei…
And give me Bishop who doesn’t write ✍️ but one who ordains priests… to provide the Sacraments to the remnant as the whole world is being genocided.
Anyway, your downplaying Fr. Vigano and Putin is just your opinion. Look outside the Alt-Right and you might find it's not really about Russian nationalism.
Ladislaus, you really do protest too much. How is it that everything you believe fits in so neatly with the Alt-Right/Duginist narrative? Anyone who opposes you is an idiot, a Jєωιѕн shell, a slanderer, and what else? Help us get a list ready so there are fewer surprises when you jump to attack.
Prove it. I don't believe any of it unless you provide evidence. Otherwise its just baseless detraction of the Dimonds, +Vigano and Voris.
Maybe I'm just going blind here, but this paranoid idea that there is a Jєω or some other agent behind literally everyone is getting tiresome and ridiculous.
No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt. You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you. In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man. This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.It hasn't been done with Fr. Vigano as far as I recall, but you have proven that with Putin we are going to need his 2022 Communist Party card, a detailed genealogy of his Jєωιѕн heritage, a list with photographs and perhaps video of his murder victims, etc. The measure of proof you require honestly doesn't exist, and I think you know that, which is why you are pushing this angle so hard and ignore everything that is offered. It would be nice if we had a simple list of heretics and saboteurs, wouldn't it?
Why is it that the SVs are such assholes? Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them. You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection. And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him. Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?I never said I was a SV or anything at all, but I can't stop you from adding what you like to me. Perfection has nothing to do with it, and I doubt Fr. Vigano even has familiarity with a lot of what gets discussed in this corner of the Internet. The Novus Ordites would be a different story.
And I'm going to be very blunt here. While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.See above. It's possible to disagree and both still be Catholics. I know you are deep into some unpleasant cօռspιʀαcιҽs, and it would be impossible for that to not color your thinking. I don't even think you must mirror my thoughts, but it would be better if you were at least neutral towards people like Putin, etc.
You throw idiotic terms out there like "Alt-Right/Duginist"Yeah what does this even mean? If it was on Tic-Tok, I missed it.
No, only idiots like you who pull stuff out of your asses and slander people like Archbishop Vigano without a shred of evidence. You spin together some conspiracy narrative that you then hold up as the yardstick of reality. You throw idiotic terms out there like "Alt-Right/Duginist" and pretend that merely by hurling the phrase you've uncovered the truth.Ladislaus, are you serious? Are you certain you have read everything that has been presented to you? Your arguments prove that this must be impossible, and you claim everything that is being said is imaginary? What is wrong with you?
I have yet to see even a shred of proof for your allegations. That's when it's slander and calumny.
It's perfectly fine to be cautious, but you cross the line into slander when you present these as fact when they're nothing but the product of your imagination.
Why would he get consecrated if he hasn't come to the conclusion yet that NO episcopal consecration is doubtful? And even if he were consecrated, why would he start ordaining priests? Every flavor of Traditional Catholicism has one or more bishops now that are adequate to serve the needs of the respective groups. Which group(s) would he ordain for and why? Should he start his own rival seminary? In fact, if he did that, I'd be MORE inclined to suspect that he might be controlled opposition.I too have been wondering who must condemn Bergoglio and declare the seat vacant, but then what is next? How is a new Pope elected or do we just wait for things to resolve in Rome? This video satisfied my curiosity and doubt about the SSPX's position on calling the Pope a heretic and his removal from office.
As for declaring the See Vacant, while I would love to see him do exactly that, why would he do it if he hasn't come to the conclusion that it's vacant? In his one letter about Bennyvacantism, he seemed to take the same line as Archbishop Lefebvre that he would need to wait for the Church to officially do that. [Of course, if he isn't the Church, and Lefebvre wasn't the Church, then who is the Church? Are we waiting this current gaggle of Modernist Cardinals and Bishops to declare the See vacant?]
While you're disappointed that he isn't a full-blown sedevacantist yet, that has nothing to do with the current thread of allegations that he's some kind of controlled opposition.
It hasn't been done with Fr. Vigano as far as I recall, but you have proven that with Putin we are going to need his 2022 Communist Party card, a detailed genealogy of his Jєωιѕн heritage, a list with photographs and perhaps video of his murder victims, etc. The measure of proof you require honestly doesn't exist, and I think you know that, which is why you are pushing this angle so hard and ignore everything that is offered. It would be nice if we had a simple list of heretics and saboteurs, wouldn't it?
[...]Ladislaus, I was deep into the Dissident Right circles years before I became Catholic. You have reacted so strongly that I would have identified you very differently in a non-Catholic setting. I want to think you are intelligent and sincere, but perhaps you are so obtuse due to years of conditioning.
Why would he get consecrated if he hasn't come to the conclusion yet that NO episcopal consecration is doubtful? And even if he were consecrated, why would he start ordaining priests? Every flavor of Traditional Catholicism has one or more bishops now that are adequate to serve the needs of the respective groups. Which group(s) would he ordain for and why? Should he start his own rival seminary? In fact, if he did that, I'd be MORE inclined to suspect that he might be controlled opposition.Yet? I'll believe it when I see it. Quite honestly, I think he'll just continue to write, and write, and write....and then he'll die. I think too many put too much stock in him. But I get it...this is what happens when there is no pope.
As for declaring the See Vacant, while I would love to see him do exactly that, why would he do it if he hasn't come to the conclusion that it's vacant? In his one letter about Bennyvacantism, he seemed to take the same line as Archbishop Lefebvre that he would need to wait for the Church to officially do that. [Of course, if he isn't the Church, and Lefebvre wasn't the Church, then who is the Church? Are we waiting this current gaggle of Modernist Cardinals and Bishops to declare the See vacant?]
While you're disappointed that he isn't a full-blown sedevacantist yet, that has nothing to do with the current thread of allegations that he's some kind of controlled opposition.
No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt. You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you. In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man. This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.Whoa! Incredulous is a sedevacantist? In fact, aren't most of the people you're arguing with on this NOT sedevacantist?
Why is it that the SVs are such assholes? Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them. You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection. And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him. Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?
And I'm going to be very blunt here. While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.
It hasn't been done with Fr. Vigano as far as I recall, but you have proven that with Putin we are going to need his 2022 Communist Party card, a detailed genealogy of his Jєωιѕн heritage, a list with photographs and perhaps video of his murder victims, etc. ...I just want to point out here that I was saying that no one has gone in-depth on Fr. Vigano on the forum, but I could be wrong. This is not to say that no one outside of the forum has done an examination of Fr. Vigano.
No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt. You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you. In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man. This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.Lad, cool down. Take a break.
Why is it that the SVs are such assholes? Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them. You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection. And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him. Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?
And I'm going to be very blunt here. While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.
I agree with DL that your nonsense borders on slander at this point.
Lots of people write differently than they speak. I absolutely do. And that's especially true when he's not perfectly fluent in English. He writes his articles typically in Italian and then others translate them. So I would certainly expect there to be a stylistic difference. That would be to compare something I might write in English with me standing up there trying to speak Italian. There would be two completely different products.
As for going into hiding, I think he has every reason to suspect that the homo maffia will come after him after he exposed their crimes. There are stories of people who blew the whistle on some Conciliar sodomites who ended up sleeping with the fishes.
As for writing is all he's doing, his writing is waking up a lot of conservative Novus Ordites, and even Traditional Catholics have received a morale boost due to someone of his stature agreeing that V2 is garbage and needs to be discarded. See my previous response to 2V about consecrating or ordaining or whatever else he might "do". You really don't think that ideas and theology matter? They're everything. His writing to help clear up minds about the nature of V2 and the crisis are invaluable and do more good than would ordaining more priests.
Your maniacal rant borders on the insane.
... But Voris, Marshall and Vigano all have links to Opus judei. Have you not studied it ? Do you not see the signs? ...
Dr. Taylor Marshall (https://disqus.com/by/taylorreedmarshall/) Moderator • 7 years ago (https://taylormarshall.com/2015/06/our-8th-baby-is-a-baby-girl.html#comment-2063779866)Yeah, he didn't name them ALL Josemaria or Escriva so it's probably just a coincidence. Like all of the other coincidental connections he has to Opus Dei :popcorn:
For reference, our other children's names are:
Gabriel William
Mary Claire
Rose Genevieve
Jude Ambrose Josemaria
Becket John
Blaise Christopher
Elizabeth Joy Anne Mary
Sources:
1.) https://taylormarshall.com/2015/06/our-8th-baby-is-a-baby-girl.html
2.) http://disq.us/p/y4pyqi
Yet? I'll believe it when I see it. Quite honestly, I think he'll just continue to write, and write, and write....and then he'll die.
It's a complex topic, because it involves canon law and also doctrine. It's also an unprecedented crisis in the Church, yet you're channeling the Diamonds and condemning people to hell because "you have it all figured out". This is crazy talk. You give SVs a bad name.The Dimonds don't even go that far with +Vigano. Condemning him as some agent, like Voris or Marshall, without solid proof is a guess at their interior motivations, which is sinful.
Voris and Marshall are easily connected with Opus Dei. Where’s the proof of +Vigano’s connection?Pax,
The Dimonds don't even go that far with +Vigano. Condemning him as some agent, like Voris or Marshall, without solid proof is a guess at their interior motivations, which is sinful.The Josemaria naming is a good starting point. Part of the issue we're facing here is that information is posted constantly, but gets ignored and sidelined. There is incredible information in posts on this very forum, and which have existed for years, but evidently without much fruit for the average poster. Somehow it's determined that there must not be any evidence, so it just comes from the opposition's bitter, angry nutjob sede imagination (look at how I was accused earlier, a complete non sequitur). People can prefer not to believe it, but they should stop pretending as if they can authoritatively sentence people they don't like and disagree with on current events.
Marshall naming his kid Josemaria doesn't strike me as particularly compelling since he's come a long way from being a NO apologist to one who has become more friendly to even SVists.
It's the conspiracy gospel versus the true Gospel once again, where rather than try to give people the benefit of the doubt, we condemn them outright because it fits our theory.
We Americans don't easily see... that Opus Dei is a judaic secret society that essentially runs the consiliar Church.I don't deny this.
Somewhere, archived on this forum, I posted older photos and dates of Vigano's meetings at Opus Dei headquarters.I've never heard this, so thanks for the info.
if Vigano was real.... he'd be outing Opus judei.Maybe, maybe not. Here's where I see the issues with this line of thinking. (If person A doesn't do "x", then he's (not) "y".) I'm not saying you totally believe this but it comes across this way and it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I don't deny this.
I've never heard this, so thanks for the info.
Maybe, maybe not. Here's where I see the issues with this line of thinking. (If person A doesn't do "x", then he's (not) "y".) I'm not saying you totally believe this but it comes across this way and it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Here's a list of things (just in the last month) that i've heard people complain that +Vigano isn't doing:
1. Helping ordain priests (there's no evidence he isn't helping, but people complain anyway).
2. Supporting SV and defending it. (he's questioned Francis' legitimacy, but I guess this isn't good enough).
3. Working to depose +Francis (we don't know he isn't)
4. Investigating and outing Opus Dei (I don't see this as the top priority; pretty low level problems, in my opinion)
5. Outing the Jooish conspiracy (Using the word "Jєω" isn't going to make a big difference, if you're still exposing the main problems, which he is)
6. Supporting Tradition (nevermind that he's supported +Williamson and also indirectly corrected the new-sspx (which is why they don't like him).)
Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1. Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2. Condemned all V2 popes
3. Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4. Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5. Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6. Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7. Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8. Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.
Bottomline: He's just one man. And he's old. He can only do so much. He writes letters every few months and gives interviews so that people have some sense of leadership in the Church. But what is he doing with the rest of his time? We don't know. So how can we complain/criticize him for things we don't know? Unless some of you have access to his daily itinerary and all his comings/goings, your complaints are just immature and impatient.
Okay... I'm guilty of rash judgementSome on this site are; not necessarily you. The point is, until +Vigano is proven to be part of Opus Dei, then shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt on "not doing x thing" to save the Church?
Some on this site are; not necessarily you. The point is, until +Vigano is proven to be part of Opus Dei, then shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt on "not doing x thing" to save the Church?How do we know that Francis isn't being blackmailed and forced to speak heresy in order to save his reputation, family, insert reason here? Shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being condemned by so many outside of authority as a heretic? Maybe they replaced the real Francis with a double and the authentic Francis is just a swell guy.
There are a lot of what-ifs, but it's not an issue of there being rash judgments made based on our sede imaginations.I didn't use "rash judgement" in my original post. I am more speaking of illegitimate criticisms, which boils down to false expectations. Again, it's illogical to argue that "I can't trust +Vigano because he isn't doing "x" and/or he's not calling out "y". Maybe your expectations are out of bounds with reality? Some are. That's my point.
That you aren't convinced or haven't looked into it is a different issue.I'm open to reading about +Vigano's opus dei connections. Such criticisms aren't mainstream, even for this site. First I've heard of it on here.
Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1. Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2. Condemned all V2 popes
3. Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4. Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5. Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6. Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7. Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8. Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.
How do we know that Francis isn't being blackmailed and forced to speak heresy in order to save his reputation, family, insert reason here? Shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being condemned by so many outside of authority as a heretic? Maybe they replaced the real Francis with a double and the authentic Francis is just a swell guy.There's a difference between observing repeated, external acts of apostasy and heresy, therefore he has proven himself to be an enemy of Christ. Whereas the other involves speculating that so-and-so must be an agent of Opus Dei or whatever because of some subjective observation about past connections, therefore he's an agent or whatever.
Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1. Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2. Condemned all V2 popes
3. Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4. Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5. Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6. Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7. Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8. Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.
I didn't use "rash judgement" in my original post. I am more speaking of illegitimate criticisms, which boils down to false expectations. Again, it's illogical to argue that "I can't trust +Vigano because he isn't doing "x" and/or he's not calling out "y". Maybe your expectations are out of bounds with reality? Some are. That's my point.Please excuse me, then. I must not be keeping up well IRT to the first sentence. A priori I don't have any expectations of Fr. Vigano because he is a highly public and well-funded figure, but that's before examining the evidence. We live in an era of universal deceit and massive propaganda. It's a reasonable assumption that anyone with media coverage is compromised to some degree and requires examination before trust.
I'm open to reading about +Vigano's opus dei connections. Such criticisms aren't mainstream, even for this site. First I've heard of it on here.I will see what I can do if someone doesn't beat me to it. I have a long-term project of collating sources, but I am one man and it takes a lot of time. If I get that far it will be in a topic all its own.