Poll

Hypothetical: If the only change to the liturgy during V2 were a vernacular Mass, would you be fine with it?

Yes
7 (36.8%)
No
12 (63.2%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Hypothetical: If the ONLY change to the liturgy during V2 were a vernacular Mass  (Read 584 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Prayerful

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 605
  • Reputation: +204/-29
  • Gender: Male
A translated vernacular Mass was never on offer. The Bugnini boys of Concilium, after the deceptive Sacrosanctum Concilium of 1963, were able to proceed full tilt at their alleged update as SC permitted any change considered suitable. The alternative Congregation of Divine Worship update to the Mass was increasingly discarded. The point is that these Modernists were working in and through Latin on the ordinary and propers. Cardinal Cushing was one of the few sitting at the Council with poor Latin, so poor he needed translators. The translations of the International Committee on the English Language and others, was done mostly after the fact, although a good many English language errors emerged with the transitional Missal between 1963 and 1969. Anyhow the hieratic Book of Common Prayer high Jacobean English does not really have a counterpart in other languages, as far as I am aware, I think there is maybe an older style of Polish, but there is no real fairly fixed 'olde style' vernacular in most places.

Offline Last Tradhican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4755
  • Reputation: +2486/-1397
  • Gender: Male

Hypothetical: If the only change to the liturgy during V2 were a vernacular Mass, would you be fine with it?
Everything else remains exactly the same. Judica me, Introit, Gregorian chant, silent Canon, etc. This already sort of happened with some parts of the world, but now it would be Christendom-wide. I don't trust the Vatican enough to not completely ruin it, so I would vote no. But it's an interesting concept to ponder.
Your hypothetical already happened, a reality, it is what played out in the 20th century and was formalized after Vatican II. Every ʀɛʋօʟutιօnary change that actually took place in the 20th century IS what is was planned to be by the ʀɛʋօʟutιօnary popes, bishops, clergy. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass  in the Roman Rite is supposed to be celebrated in Latin (95% of the worlds Catholic are Roman Rite), when it is not, it'll end up the same as what we have already lived.   
The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


Offline Last Tradhican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4755
  • Reputation: +2486/-1397
  • Gender: Male
There were plenty of vernacular masses before V2 and even Mass in Mandarin was permitted by Clement XV. It would be heresy to say that the only masses that can be celebrated must be in vernacular. It is not heretical to say there should be masses said in vernacular.
I do not believe that there were  "plenty of vernacular masses" in the Roman Rite before the 20th century. 95% of the Catholics are Roman Rite. I do not believe that Clement XV authorized a Roman Rite mass in Mandarin. Catholics were not even allowed to use missals in his time. That sounds like a Novus Ordo smokescreen.
The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

Online 2Vermont

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6014
  • Reputation: +2844/-512
  • Gender: Female
Take a look at what happened to the various translations of the Holy Bible.  There is a reason why the Church has one language...and one that doesn't change.
"For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

Offline Prayerful

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 605
  • Reputation: +204/-29
  • Gender: Male
I do not believe that there were  "plenty of vernacular masses" in the Roman Rite before the 20th century. 95% of the Catholics are Roman Rite. I do not believe that Clement XV authorized a Roman Rite mass in Mandarin. Catholics were not even allowed to use missals in his time. That sounds like a Novus Ordo smokescreen.
Clement XI? There is no Clement XV, unless one of the minor, modern anti-Pope eccentrics are counted. Clement XI suppressed the so-called 'Chinese Rites.' The only real variant was the reversal of wearing hats. A priest in ƈhıną would wear his hat on the altar, on account of the traditional understanding of hat wearing among the Chinese. Alexander VII had allowed Chinese in the liturgy. The only real exception regarding Latin for Latin Rite Christians were that native peoples in north America were permitted a substantial element of vernacular. Presumably their substantially nomadic culture might have created difficulty in creating a corp of native Indian priests using just Latin.


 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16