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Author Topic: From Holy Spirit to calling God You  (Read 10309 times)

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Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2019, 04:39:07 PM »
 They are puffed up with pride to the Nth degree, and split-second quick to place themselves and their judgments above legions of learned Catholic (not modernist) priests and bishops.
I say Holy Spirit when I pray with my mother or anyone else who goes to the Novus Ordo. When I'm by myself, I say Holy Ghost or when I'm around other trads. 
I noticed saying Holy Ghost around non-trads gave me a sort of "elitist" opinion of myself.
My predominant vice is already pride. This is one way to temper it for me.

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2019, 04:42:35 PM »
But when "thou" was introduced, i.e when the first Catholic English translations were being made, "thou" was not a sacred or special term at all. It was the same word as was used for friends, children, and even animals. If we had a word with a similar meaning today that was substituted in, you can bet any money Last Tradhican would be calling it the height of disrespect and borderline blasphemy. To quote him "So we should talk to God informally, like we talk to nobodies?". At the time of the 1855 Missal, the more formal, solemn term would've been "you". So by his logic, he should have a greater problem with the 1855 Missal than with the new one.
At the time "thou" was first introduced, it signified the close, loving relationship we have with God.  And that was a good thing to do at time, in a culture in which this truth was obscured. (This is shortly before the rise of Jansenism, which saw God as very distant from humanity, to point where it developed into heresy.)

But that was a different time.  The language was different and spiritual needs were different.  We live in a culture that has lost the sense of the sacred.  The word that better addresses that need is "thou" not "you".  The connotations of these words in the past is irrelevant.


Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2019, 04:45:54 PM »
Once again arguing with emotion.
For the benefit of those reading this thread, emotions has nothing to do with it, it is precisely the opposite, the reputations score here on CI are very accurate, and they have always worked for me, and whenever I answer someone with a negative score, it turns out to be a waste of time. It is best to answer as Matthew did and not give them the pulpit.  Obviously, Matthew knew the writer.

Quote
Today, "Thee" and "Thou" are formal, so it's how WE (in 2019) talk to God. "You" and "Your" is how we talk to the garbage man.
If they were reversed in 1600, that is completely irrelevant.

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2019, 04:47:29 PM »
At the time "thou" was first introduced, it signified the close, loving relationship we have with God.  And that was a good thing to do at time, in a culture in which this truth was obscured. (This is shortly before the rise of Jansenism, which saw God as very distant from humanity, to point where it developed into heresy.)

But that was a different time.  The language was different and spiritual needs were different.  We live in a culture that has lost the sense of the sacred.  The word that better addresses that need is "thou" not "you".  The connotations of these words in the past is irrelevant.
Ok hold on now. If I said "it's a different time, we have different spiritual needs", you'd be calling it modernism. I understand that "thou" signifies closeness, but so does the Spanish "tu" which Tradhican condemns. "Thou" back then and "tu" in Spanish or "du" in German today are basically identical in meaning, and yet he's alright with the 1855 Missal's choice to use "thou" but not the use of "tu" in Spanish Missals. God does not change, so there's no reason why we'd need to refer to Him with different levels of closeness or formality depending on the decade of our birth. If "tu" today is wrong, then so was "thou" in 1855. 

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2019, 04:49:42 PM »
For the benfit of those reading this thread, emotions has nothing to do with it, it is precisely the opposite, the reputations score here on CI are very accurate, and they have always worked for me, and whenever I answer someone with a negative score, it turns out to be a waste of time. It is best to answer as Matthew did and not give them the pulpit.  Obviously, Matthew knew the writer.
Yet you've still not given a single reason why "thou" was ok in 1855 but not "tu" today in Spanish. Because the only reason you have is emotional, you grew up with "thou" so you like it, and you're falsely equating what "thou" means to you today with what it meant in 1855.