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Author Topic: From Holy Spirit to calling God You  (Read 10360 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 10:02:05 AM »
Quote from: Matthew on May 14, 2019, 09:31:59 AM
Settle down. This is just "Last Tradhican" giving his personal opinion on "Holy Ghost" vs "Holy Spirit". It is barely a valid opinion at all, much less something that will shake the entire Trad world like an earthquake.

He has not ruled once and for all. He is not the Pope. If he were the Pope, maybe it would justify your nail-biting, far out responses.

No, "Holy Spirit" is not invalid, nor is it even offensive to Catholic morality. It is absolutely valid, being an accurate translation of "Sanctus Spiritus".

So all your questions are moot -- that is to say, worthless.

Sometimes armchair theologians make me sick.  They are puffed up with pride to the Nth degree, and split-second quick to place themselves and their judgments above legions of learned Catholic (not modernist) priests and bishops.
There, that's better. (although it is the opinion of Fr. Carl Pulvermacher the priest that I mentioned in the OP that was ordained in 1951)
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 10:02:46 AM »
Quote from: Matthew on May 14, 2019, 09:36:40 AM
Saying "Holy Ghost" instead of "Holy Spirit" is a shibboleth of sorts, a keyword that shows we are Traditional.

So it is good to use "Holy Ghost", to show we are not ashamed of Catholic Tradition.

Also, all the Modernists use Holy Spirit. That doesn't mean it's objectively wrong, inaccurate, or sinful -- but we shouldn't use it because who wants to sound like a Novus Ordo Modernist?

In other words, we should avoid the term "Holy Spirit" for reasons of PRUDENCE and that is the end of the list. There is nothing objectively wrong with the term.

It is also a bad idea to bring the Gospel, or our speech to God, down to a comic book, banal, everyday tone or level. That is why we shouldn't call God with the same term we use for the mailman ("you").

There is a similar reason for women wearing long skirts. (There are other reasons too, but I'm focusing on just one reason here.) Even if one could argue that certain kinds of pants with a long shirt over it met the norms of Catholic modesty, why would you? I mean, most worldlings aren't going to single you out or give you a hard time for wearing loose fitting pants with a loose shirt over it. Won't they just assume you're like everyone else in the World? How will they know you're a Trad then? Why shouldn't we scream to the world that we're Traditional Catholics, and that we're not ashamed of our Faith?

You don't want pagan residents of Sodom and Gomorrah to treat you like one of their own, or fail to give you a hard time, do you? You really want to "fit in", in the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah? God forbid!

You really want this?

I love Hillary Clinton! She is awesome!
Obama is like a messiah!
Archbishop Lefebvre was a disobedient rebel!
The Catholic Church is horrible!
Abortion is just reproductive rights for women.
People should be able to love whoever they want.
Matthew is a great guy!


Um...no?
Exactly.
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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 11:14:44 AM »
Quote from: Confiteor Deo on May 14, 2019, 09:23:34 AM
Where does this leave the English language Novos Ordo baptism? Are those who are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit actually baptised?

Are they conditionally rebaptised?

What form was used for the baptism of Bishop Williamson?
By the way, Last Tradhican, this is the "armchair theology" I was criticizing, saying that it made me sick.
He took your opinion as a springboard, and went WAY OUT THERE with it.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 12:26:41 PM »
We had a hotly-debated thread on this subject a long time ago.  I actually "came out" with my preference for term Holy Spirit, not only because it etymologically follows the Latin, but because the term "ghost" has picked up in more recent times the strong connotation of referring to a disembodied human soul.  You could go back and forth.  I prefer the French (Latinate / Romance) in the English language to the barbaric Saxon elements ... LOL.  Neither term is inherently good or bad, wrong or right, valid or invalid.  Both are valid.  If either one had been invalid, the Church would have pronounced on it long ago ... since both terms were in use among Catholics even before Vatican II.

So, for instance, when I pray the Rosary and am not praying in Latin, I always use Holy Spirit, but among Traditional Catholics I always use "Ghost" because, as Matthew points out, it's become this shibboleth, and I don't want to cause scandal.  Many Traditional Catholics immediately in their minds label you as "suspect of Modernism" if you ever use the term Holy Spirit.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 01:03:19 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 14, 2019, 12:26:41 PM
We had a hotly-debated thread on this subject a long time ago.  I actually "came out" with my preference for term Holy Spirit, not only because it etymologically follows the Latin, but because the term "ghost" has picked up in more recent times the strong connotation of referring to a disembodied human soul.  You could go back and forth.  I prefer the French (Latinate / Romance) in the English language to the barbaric Saxon elements ... LOL.  Neither term is inherently good or bad, wrong or right, valid or invalid.  Both are valid.  If either one had been invalid, the Church would have pronounced on it long ago ... since both terms were in use among Catholics even before Vatican II.

So, for instance, when I pray the Rosary and am not praying in Latin, I always use Holy Spirit, but among Traditional Catholics I always use "Ghost" because, as Matthew points out, it's become this shibboleth, and I don't want to cause scandal.  Many Traditional Catholics immediately in their minds label you as "suspect of Modernism" if you ever use the term Holy Spirit.
I understand all of that, but what about calling God , you. I see it a many post 1959 Latin mass missals, usually along with those Picaso-esque ugly drawings to ridicule art.

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