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Author Topic: Miracle of the Sun, Joshuas longest day - FLAT EARTH  (Read 7376 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Miracle of the Sun, Joshuas longest day - FLAT EARTH
« on: November 05, 2023, 08:19:35 AM »
Quote
"Our Lady's Miracle of the Sun opens up a lot of issues, which may be considered a bit of a digression ... related to cosmology ... that I can bring up on a separate thread so as not to derail this one."



Yes indeed. And then there's Joshua making the sun stand still.

I understand a miracle is a miracle -- but if the sun "stood still" imagine the forces of "gravity" that would have to be undone if the earth suddenly stopped spinning all the sudden?

I mean, it makes a lot more sense in a Flat Earth cosmology, where God controls and appoints the course of the sun, moon, and stars -- rather than some hands-off universe where He is only needed for a Big Bang and then the whole thing just runs itself.

God intervenes constantly to create human souls right now -- and He has to constantly keep everything in existence. So the Big Bang - spinning ball cosmology -- is unnecessary complexity.

Not to mention Scripture already weighed in on the debate. Genesis CLEARLY states that the earth was created first, BEFORE the sun and stars. So you can't even interpret the Genesis Days as "periods of time". Also, you have to do extreme violence to the Hebrew to interpret the Days as anything other than regular 24-hour days. What kind of violence? THIS kind of violence:

"John went to work yesterday".
Interpretation: "John went to work 100 million years ago."

That is NOT a faithful or valid interpretation of that sentence!
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Miracle of the Sun, Joshuas longest day - FLAT EARTH
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2023, 08:28:20 AM »
God createth Heaven and Earth, and all things therein, in six days.

1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.  2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.  3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.  4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.  5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.
6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.  7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.  8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.  9 God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done.  10 And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis also talks about the "windows of heaven" that were opened at the time of the Flood, as if the firmament had openings to let the WATERS down to the earth below.

If you're a Glober, you have to take all this as poetic language and old-fashioned, archaic, FAIRY TALE LIKE figurative imagery. But that is not necessary.


Quote
"Perhaps beginning with Origen, the different identifiers used for heavens in the Book of Genesis, caelum and firmamentum, sparked some commentary on the significance of the order of creation (caelum identified as the heaven of the first day, and firmamentum as the heaven of the second day).[8] Some of these theories identified caelum as the higher, immaterial and spiritual heaven, whereas firmamentum was of corporeal existence.[9]: 237 
Christian theologians of note writing between the 5th and mid-12th century were generally in agreement that the waters, sometimes called the "crystalline orb", were located above the firmament and beneath the fiery heaven that was also called empyrean (from Greek ἔμπυρος). One medieval writer who rejected such notions was Pietro d'Abano who argued that theologians "assuming a crystalline, or aqueous sphere, and an empyrean, or firey sphere" were relying on revelation more than Scripture.[10]
About this Ambrose wrote: "Wise men of the world say that water cannot be over the heavens"; the firmament is called such, according to Ambrose, because it held back the waters above it.[11]
This matter of the position of the "waters" above the firmament was considered by Augustine in De Genesi ad litteram (perhaps his least studied work): "only God knows how and why [the waters] are there, but we cannot deny the authority of Holy Scripture which is greater than our understanding"."



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Offline Matthew

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Re: Miracle of the Sun, Joshuas longest day - FLAT EARTH
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2023, 08:32:08 AM »
P.S. The "early Hebrews" were the ONLY PEOPLE WORSHIPING THE TRUE GOD back then. If you lived back then, you would want to be a Hebrew, because they were the only ones on the path to salvation! They were the good guys. We're not talking about "those who say they are Jews but are not, but are the S. of S." No, these are the REAL Jews with the whole package of Truth we're talking about! The people who received the Law from God, who possessed the TRUE FAITH both Scripture and Tradition, and who awaited God's promised Messiah Who was still to come.
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Offline Incredulous

Re: Miracle of the Sun, Joshuas longest day - FLAT EARTH
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2023, 10:12:18 AM »
Would someone please ping Fr. Paul Robinson and ask him to post on this topic? :popcorn:
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Miracle of the Sun, Joshuas longest day - FLAT EARTH
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2023, 11:12:30 AM »
So, the question is what happened during the miracle of the sun.  Did Our Lady just work an optical illusion?  That would really weaken the nature of the miracle, and I don't believe it consistent with the honor that God sought to bring to her Immaculate Heart with it.  So we must hold that there was something real and physical taking place.  I recall St. Thomas writing something along these lines on another topic.

So the sun was plunging toward the earth.  If we accept NASA cosmology, this would mean that the entire world should have seen it.

So if it wasn't some optical illusion and the entire world did not see it, that can only mean one thing ...

that the sun is much closer (i.e. local) and smaller than is believed.

This is to say nothing of the fact that the entire earth would likely have been nearly incinerated, as there should have been a very high temperature spike, not only at Fatima but worldwide.

Then if you look at the Joshua example, if you buy NASA cosmology, the rotation of the earth must have stopped, rather than the movement of the sun.  While God could of course suspend these effects, naturally speaking the effects on the earth would have been devastating ... massive tidal waves, tsunamies, problems with "gravity", etc.

In any case, unless one wants to hold that the Fatima Miracle of the Sun was an optical illusion, an effect on what just the people at Fatima saw, an effect on their optical nerves, it should have been seen worldwide and would also have caused major effects around the world.  For the sun to get larger, it would have to close in on the earth by millions of miles.
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