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Author Topic: Globe Earth R.I.P.  (Read 7408 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2023, 10:45:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on November 09, 2023, 10:37:47 AM
    Is this dream/vision of Don Bosco real?

    It would take 350 years to travel 93 million miles on a 30mph train from 1880's.

    I don't believe it. It must be apocryphal.

    Besides not passing the smell test, and going against even the claims of modern science, it also goes against existing hard data and reasoning:

    Where's the curve? Why has no one ever seen the earth's curve? Why do planes never circuмnavigate north/south? What about all the disappearing southern hemisphere flights on GPS? Why can we see too far given an 8 inch drop per mile squared? Why is NASA 100% full of crap? Why have we never been to "space"?

    Those things I know for sure, I can see them clearly with my own eyes and/or my faculty of reason. And your little scan doesn't line up with that -- so I must reject the scan.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #16 on: November 09, 2023, 10:49:01 AM »
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    • For that matter, What about the 20 proofs the Earth isn't a spinning ball? Have you even watched the video, St. Giles?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #17 on: November 09, 2023, 10:54:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on November 09, 2023, 10:37:47 AM
    Is this dream/vision of Don Bosco real?

    It would take 350 years to travel 93 million miles on a 30mph train from 1880's.

    Not sure if the dream/visions is real, who this guy is, etc. ... but the information is inaccurate according to modern science anyway.  So, for instance, the face of the sun (diameter) is less than 1 million miles and the entire circuмference less than 3 million miles, so it doesn't make any sense that would take just as long to cross its face as to get there.  Also, according to modern science, to which you zealously adhere, the closest nebula is only 700 light years away, not 10 million light years.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #18 on: November 09, 2023, 10:59:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 09, 2023, 10:49:01 AM
    For that matter, What about the 20 proofs the Earth isn't a spinning ball? Have you even watched the video, St. Giles?

    That's how confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance works.  You ignore the contrary evidence but then keep trying to find things in support of what you want to believe, no matter how flimsy, such as this dream (that's inaccurate by the standards of modern science).
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #19 on: November 09, 2023, 12:55:25 PM »
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    • Perhaps on a Sunday night I will give a lengthy response together with a video, but I don't want the effort wasted by being deleted. What's to stop you from going through the old threads to delete flat earth opposition? Where is the line drawn after deleting posts or partial posts in at least 2 different threads? Granted they may have been mostly insignificant posts, but the line is crossed. Catholic censorship of lies is a good thing, but I think you are wrong in this case. 

    I don't challenge you as owner of the forum, I'm just concerned by what may become of this valuable resource of information for traditional Catholics. 
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #20 on: November 09, 2023, 01:00:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on November 09, 2023, 12:55:25 PM
     What's to stop you from going through the old threads to delete flat earth opposition?

    :laugh1:  You're quite the cheeky bastard and clearly don't know how Matthew/CI works.  Why does he not just kick off all Globetards and be done with it?  Why not just tell Matthew he clearly has no integrity, etc?
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #21 on: November 09, 2023, 01:03:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on November 09, 2023, 12:55:25 PM
    Perhaps on a Sunday night I will give a lengthy response together with a video, but I don't want the effort wasted by being deleted. 

    Would love to see some serious, credible opposition.  As of yet, there hasn't been any.  
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #22 on: November 09, 2023, 01:34:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on November 09, 2023, 01:03:16 PM

    Would love to see some serious, credible opposition.  As of yet, there hasn't been any. 

    Yes. All we get is something along the lines of 

    (Argument of Authority)
    (Argument of Authority)
    (Bandwagon)
    (Ad Hominem)
    (Ad Hominem)(Ad Hominem)(Ad Hominem)(Ad Hominem)
    ...and many other logical fallacies.

    And of course, lots of general mockery. 


    For as the crackling of thorns burning under a pot, so is the laughter of a fool: now this also is vanity. (Ecclesiastes 7:7)
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #23 on: November 09, 2023, 02:50:27 PM »
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    • The globe model NASA and modern science promote are not supported by Scripture, the Church or the Fathers, yet they are accepted world wide. 

    Mephistophelese introduced himself to Faust in these words, "I am the spirit who denies everything always; the stars, the flowers.  My sneering and my hostility disturb the Creator's leisure.  I want Nothingness and the universal ruin of Creation". 


    From the Protocols of Zion
    •‘Protocol No. 2: For them let that play the principal part which we have persuaded them to accept the dictates of science (theory). It is with this object in view that we are constantly, by means of our press, arousing a blind confidence in these theories. The intellectuals of the GOYIM (a disparaging term for one who is not a Jєω, such as Gentile or Christian) will puff themselves up with their knowledge and without any logical verification of them will put into effect all the information available from science, which our AGENTUR specialists have cunningly pieced together for the purpose of educating their minds in the direction we want…’  ---- Protocols (of the Illuminati)… published in 1905, pp.15-16.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #24 on: November 10, 2023, 05:47:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 09, 2023, 01:34:57 PM
    Yes. All we get is something along the lines of

    (Argument of Authority)
    (Argument of Authority)
    (Bandwagon)
    (Ad Hominem)
    (Ad Hominem)(Ad Hominem)(Ad Hominem)(Ad Hominem)
    ...and many other logical fallacies.

    And of course, lots of general mockery.


    For as the crackling of thorns burning under a pot, so is the laughter of a fool: now this also is vanity. (Ecclesiastes 7:7)

    Really, outside of the above, the only thing you get is the gratuitous flinging out of the word "refraction" ... used as a deus ex machina to explain away the myriad experiments that demonstrate non-curvature.  Several experiments, however, conclusively rule out refraction as a possible cause.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #25 on: November 10, 2023, 05:52:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on November 09, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
    :laugh1:  You're quite the cheeky bastard and clearly don't know how Matthew/CI works.  Why does he not just kick off all Globetards and be done with it?  Why not just tell Matthew he clearly has no integrity, etc?

    Matthew has never deleted a Globe earth post, so that is yet another example of dishonesty.  In fact, when FE started to be discussed here, Matthew relegated it to its own quasi-hidden subforum.  In his intellectual openness and honesty, however, Matthew started to examine the actual evidence.

    I went through a similar process.  See, I never mocked FE, nor did I rule it out a priori, but I just didn't believe in it.  Yet I would dig around in the FE sub-forum from time to time to see what people had.  It took me nearly two years to fully come around to FE.  After about 6 months, I would post that I "lean" toward FE, and it was about a year and a half after that when I become 100% convinced of it.

    If someone puts aside the preliminary bias, due to the lifelong brainwashing into globe earth cosmology, and allows oneself to objectively weigh the evidence, it's very difficult to avoid the conclusion.  There's just too much very solid evidence against earth curvature that cannot be dismissed by just throwing the word "refraction" at it.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #26 on: November 10, 2023, 07:18:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on November 09, 2023, 12:55:25 PM
    Perhaps on a Sunday night I will give a lengthy response together with a video, but I don't want the effort wasted by being deleted. What's to stop you from going through the old threads to delete flat earth opposition? Where is the line drawn after deleting posts or partial posts in at least 2 different threads? Granted they may have been mostly insignificant posts, but the line is crossed. Catholic censorship of lies is a good thing, but I think you are wrong in this case.

    I don't challenge you as owner of the forum, I'm just concerned by what may become of this valuable resource of information for traditional Catholics.
    This is kinda off topic but reading the summa article 1 I saw this.

    [a] Objection 1:
    It seems that, besides philosophical science, we have no need of any further knowledge. For man should not seek to know what is above reason: "Seek not the things that are too high for thee" (Ecclus. 3:22). But whatever is not above reason is fully treated of in philosophical science. Therefore any other knowledge besides philosophical science is superfluous

    . Reply to Objection 1:
    Although those things which are beyond man's knowledge may not be sought for by man through his reason, nevertheless, once they are revealed by God, they must be accepted by faith. Hence the sacred text continues, "For many things are shown to thee above the understanding of man" (Ecclus. 3:25). And in this, the sacred science consists

    Reply to Objection 2:
    Sciences are differentiated according to the various means through which knowledge is obtained. For the astronomer and the physicist both may prove the same conclusion: that the earth, for instance, is round: the astronomer by means of mathematics (i. e. abstracting from matter), but the physicist by means of matter itself. Hence there is no reason why those things which may be learned from philosophical science, so far as they can be known by natural reason, may not also be taught us by another science so far as they fall within revelation. Hence theology included in sacred doctrine differs in kind from that theology which is part of philosophy


    What did he mean by round? And it seems today's technology this curvature seems to be not measurable...
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Globe Earth R.I.P.
    « Reply #27 on: November 10, 2023, 08:32:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on November 10, 2023, 07:18:42 AM
    This is kinda off topic but reading the summa article 1 I saw this.

    [a] Objection 1:
    It seems that, besides philosophical science, we have no need of any further knowledge. For man should not seek to know what is above reason: "Seek not the things that are too high for thee" (Ecclus. 3:22). But whatever is not above reason is fully treated of in philosophical science. Therefore any other knowledge besides philosophical science is superfluous

    . Reply to Objection 1:
    Although those things which are beyond man's knowledge may not be sought for by man through his reason, nevertheless, once they are revealed by God, they must be accepted by faith. Hence the sacred text continues, "For many things are shown to thee above the understanding of man" (Ecclus. 3:25). And in this, the sacred science consists

    Reply to Objection 2:
    Sciences are differentiated according to the various means through which knowledge is obtained. For the astronomer and the physicist both may prove the same conclusion: that the earth, for instance, is round: the astronomer by means of mathematics (i. e. abstracting from matter), but the physicist by means of matter itself. Hence there is no reason why those things which may be learned from philosophical science, so far as they can be known by natural reason, may not also be taught us by another science so far as they fall within revelation. Hence theology included in sacred doctrine differs in kind from that theology which is part of philosophy


    What did he mean by round? And it seems today's technology this curvature seems to be not measurable...

    St. Thomas is saying that the approach to conclusions within various sciences is different when they come to the same conclusion. If Thomas really believed the earth to be round, remember the pressure existed in higher learning institutions of his time, yet the means of proof very low, so he would be excused for the error and without guilt since he's merely using it as an example. He used the example only in order to make another point entirely. 

    Thomas could just as easily have said something that he didn't believe like, 
    "The sky is purple: the astronomer proves it by means of math, the physicist by matter itself."

    What's even more compelling evidence of what Thomas really believed, is this:  "once they are revealed by God, they must be accepted by faith."

    This tells us that revelation is an indispensable basis for truth.  In other words, a scientific conclusion at odds with revelation is useless as far as he's concerned. 
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