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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 12294 times)

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Offline St Giles

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2023, 06:33:21 PM »
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  • Uhm, the same reason the temperature would drop on a globe, the decrease in air pressure, and less sun reflecting off the surface, etc.  What, do you imagine that the FE models holds that the sun is 20,000 feet above the surface?  Relatively small increase in proximity to the sun doesn't suffice to cancel out the cooling due to lower air pressure and other factors.  When the atmosphere is thinner, there's less matter for the sun's raise to excite and therefore convert into heat (heat is caused by vibrating molecules).

    See, the Glober attitude is that they've already decided that the earth is a globe/ball and so they just keep slinging enough manure at the wall with the hope that some of it will stick.
    Don't you FE-ers have a veideo showing a plane flying above clouds with the sun below proving flat earth, when it really proves a globe earth?

    You often come across like you have already decided the earth is flat and keep slinging manure hoping some of it sticks. Seems to me like the FE-ers often accuse GE-ers of the things they themselves do, but hope that making the accusation first will somehow prove them right.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #91 on: July 20, 2023, 06:38:06 PM »
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  • The air is much thinner as you ascend.  So much so, not only is it colder, breathing is difficult to impossible at great heights even on mountains which remain in our atmosphere. Airplane travel is easier and faster due to less resistance just above the mountains. What's funny is that globe proponents pretend that the vacuum of space sits just outside the pressurized area of oxygen. Vacuums don't exist without containment or we'd all be sucked up into the vacuum.  Pretending to send rockets up into "space" is joke because engines need oxygen for combustion and a few hundred miles up, there is no oxygen.     
    Shows how much you know. Rockets are not like jet engines that use the oxygen in the air, they carry a concentrated supply in either a compressed tank, or a solid form.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #92 on: July 20, 2023, 07:04:03 PM »
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  • Shows how much you know. Rockets are not like jet engines that use the oxygen in the air, they carry a concentrated supply in either a compressed tank, or a solid form.

    LOL.  It doesn't matter what form it comes in, it has to combust to move the rocket and combustion demands lots of oxygen, not available in the upper atmosphere let alone "space".   

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #93 on: July 20, 2023, 07:34:52 PM »
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  • Don't you FE-ers have a veideo showing a plane flying above clouds with the sun below proving flat earth, when it really proves a globe earth?

    You often come across like you have already decided the earth is flat and keep slinging manure hoping some of it sticks. Seems to me like the FE-ers often accuse GE-ers of the things they themselves do, but hope that making the accusation first will somehow prove them right.

    What are you babbling about "you FE-ers"?  I have no such video.  Most FEs surmise that the sun is about 3,000 miles above the surface of the earth.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #94 on: July 20, 2023, 07:36:46 PM »
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  • But if you assume we are in a “snow globe” FE, warm air rises and thus it should be warmer at the top of the dome, No? Also, what is the assumption you make for the distance the surface of the Earth is to the Sun?

    Warm air rises on Globe earth also, generally speaking, so what's the point?  Reason warm air rises is because of its lower density, due to the particles being more dispersed.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #95 on: July 20, 2023, 07:39:53 PM »
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  • Still waiting for an explanation for how the Alps can be seen from 700 miles away (in photos taken by someone who isn't a Flat Earther) when they should be hidden by 45 miles of curvature, or a lighthouse that's 150 feet above sea level can be seen from 250 miles away.  Or how two-way laser experiments that debunk "refraction" can be explained.  Or the hundreds of similar experiments.  Or a response to Dr. John D's "Black Swan" video.  Or why amateur balloons not equipped with GoPro lenses at 120,000 feet show no drop in the horizon line (impossible on a globe).






    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #96 on: July 20, 2023, 09:05:12 PM »
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  • The sun's behavior could be explained with Enoch's version of the 6 entries and exits in the firmament which does not depend much on the shape of the earth. Also, curvature commensurate with a 24,901 circuмference ball has never been proven or demonstrated.  NASA et. al. will point to boats, cgi graphics and rockets with go pros but never deal with the measurement of the land because the land doesn't curve one mile for the first 90 miles distance, the result needed for earth to be a globe. Salt flats perfectly level for 5,000 square miles kind of put a hole in the curvature fairy tale as well. 

    The  narrative in book of Enoch does not apply if you are at the equator. Daylight is practically the same year round. The sun"s "movement" to the left and right at sunrise, noon and sunset is minimal, and it increases gradually as you travel north or south the equator.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #97 on: July 20, 2023, 09:08:18 PM »
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  • The  narrative in book of Enoch does not apply if you are at the equator. Daylight is practically the same year round. The sun"s "movement" to the left and right at sunrise, noon and sunset is minimal, and it increases gradually as you travel north or south the equator.

    Ok, you'll need to prove the explanation in Enoch does not apply if you're at the equator. You have to fully understand what he's saying and what he proposes, in order to deny what he's saying is true.   


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #98 on: July 21, 2023, 07:11:42 AM »
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  • LOL.  It doesn't matter what form it comes in, it has to combust to move the rocket and combustion demands lots of oxygen, not available in the upper atmosphere let alone "space". 

    So, what's your point? Rockets only need most of their fuel before reaching space to accelerate and overcome air resistance. Once in space, not as much fuel is needed because there is practically nothing to slow them down. When talking about rocket fuel oxygen is considered part of it, unlike in airplanes where only the non oxygen component is called fuel.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #99 on: July 21, 2023, 07:55:52 AM »
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  • So, what's your point? Rockets only need most of their fuel before reaching space to accelerate and overcome air resistance.

    Not exactly.  It's less about air resistance than in achieving "escape velocity" from the earth's "gravity" (since you believe in gravity).  Interestingly, Werner von Braun felt early on that achieving escape velocity was not possible, saying something along the lines of needing a rocket the size of the Empire State Building to make it happen, explaining the paradox in the fact that the more fuel you add to the rocket (increasing it in size) the more thrust is needed to achieve escape velocity.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #100 on: July 21, 2023, 08:18:18 AM »
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  • So, what's your point? Rockets only need most of their fuel before reaching space to accelerate and overcome air resistance. Once in space, not as much fuel is needed because there is practically nothing to slow them down. When talking about rocket fuel oxygen is considered part of it, unlike in airplanes where only the non oxygen component is called fuel.

    What, and the rocket doesn't need to burn fuel to maneuver? Or burn fuel to return?  How does a rocket exit the earth that is supposedly travelling at 67,000 mph one direction, some 500,000 another direction and ever hope to catch back up?     


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #101 on: July 22, 2023, 09:28:37 PM »
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  • Not exactly.  It's less about air resistance than in achieving "escape velocity" from the earth's "gravity" (since you believe in gravity).  Interestingly, Werner von Braun felt early on that achieving escape velocity was not possible, saying something along the lines of needing a rocket the size of the Empire State Building to make it happen, explaining the paradox in the fact that the more fuel you add to the rocket (increasing it in size) the more thrust is needed to achieve escape velocity.
    I said "to accelerate and overcome air resistance", so I had acceleration (obviously to however fast needed including escape velocity) covered.


    What, and the rocket doesn't need to burn fuel to maneuver? Or burn fuel to return?  How does a rocket exit the earth that is supposedly travelling at 67,000 mph one direction, some 500,000 another direction and ever hope to catch back up?   

    They carry the oxygen in a tank with them, and yes the maneuvering fuel is very limited. Ion thrusters can also be used. The rocket doesn't step off a speeding bullet (earth) into still air (space), It is already going the same speed as earth (if earth really is flying around the sun and galaxy) apart from the speed reached to leave earth. They carefully plan these flights. Most only send something into orbit, so maneuvering is minimal. Shooting for a lap around the moon can use the moon's gravity to help overcome earth's gravity, and a "slingshot" effect around the moon to get back if they pass the moon on the correct side. This isn't like in most sci-fi shows where if the rocket's engines turn off the thing comes to a stop in the middle of space. It's called space for a reason, there's no air, so nothing to slow it down other than some source of gravity, which could speed it up with no fuel burned depending on which direction it is flying. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this stuff. I'm not saying I'm proving that rockets flying in empty space is real, I just saying that it is quite possible. The impossibility of space flight is no proof for a water filled firmament because space flight is conceptually very possible.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #102 on: July 23, 2023, 09:35:32 AM »
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  • I said "to accelerate and overcome air resistance", so I had acceleration (obviously to however fast needed including escape velocity) covered.
    They carry the oxygen in a tank with them, and yes the maneuvering fuel is very limited. Ion thrusters can also be used. The rocket doesn't step off a speeding bullet (earth) into still air (space), It is already going the same speed as earth (if earth really is flying around the sun and galaxy) apart from the speed reached to leave earth. They carefully plan these flights. Most only send something into orbit, so maneuvering is minimal. Shooting for a lap around the moon can use the moon's gravity to help overcome earth's gravity, and a "slingshot" effect around the moon to get back if they pass the moon on the correct side. This isn't like in most sci-fi shows where if the rocket's engines turn off the thing comes to a stop in the middle of space. It's called space for a reason, there's no air, so nothing to slow it down other than some source of gravity, which could speed it up with no fuel burned depending on which direction it is flying. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this stuff. I'm not saying I'm proving that rockets flying in empty space is real, I just saying that it is quite possible. The impossibility of space flight is no proof for a water filled firmament because space flight is conceptually very possible.

    No oxygen or fuel needed for maneuvers in space? When...before or after the 60's moon landing? Spaceships cling to the earth via gravity, then pop over to the moon without drifting or getting off track? The spaceship magically maintains position while everything is blasting through "space" at 500,000 mph?  Travels a distance 500,000 miles with no need for fuel? Clings to the earth which is going it's own direction at 67,000 mph? Then hops on over to the moon's gravity with a sling shot round-about? No need to dodge space debris? Little fuel to avoid other bodies like meteors? No need for combustion the entire time? Oh boy. Santa has a better story than that. 

    Sorry to burst the space bubble, it's the lying idiots working for the government providing creative writers' fables to spin more and more sophisticated yarns, so they can laugh like hyenas at people that believe all the made up nonsense about space travel.   

    The firmament is not filled with water.  Water is above the firmament.  Any vehicle that flies stays under that dome, in the atmosphere, and uses fuel and oxygen.   



    Offline Tradman

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #103 on: July 23, 2023, 09:51:03 AM »
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  • Wondering how a spaceship communicates 238,000 miles through space, from earth to moon and back, when sound doesn't travel through a vacuum. :popcorn:

    The radio waves with the longest length that NASA claims can in no way supply or substitute because they travel in a direct line only.


    Microwaves travel by line-of-sight; unlike lower frequency radio waves, they do not diffract around hills, follow the earth's surface as ground waves, or reflect from the ionosphere, so terrestrial microwave communication links are limited by the visual horizon to about 40 miles (64 km).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
    « Reply #104 on: July 23, 2023, 10:42:48 AM »
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  • Wondering how a spaceship communicates 238,000 miles through space, from earth to moon and back, when sound doesn't travel through a vacuum. :popcorn:

    The radio waves with the longest length that NASA claims can in no way supply or substitute because they travel in a direct line only.


    Microwaves travel by line-of-sight; unlike lower frequency radio waves, they do not diffract around hills, follow the earth's surface as ground waves, or reflect from the ionosphere, so terrestrial microwave communication links are limited by the visual horizon to about 40 miles (64 km).

    I have a serious problem with the allegation that we have the Webb telescope a million miles away broadcasting high definition images.  Everyone knows that the more concentrated the signal, the shorter the range.  Also, to get decent bandwidth, you really have to target the signal.  How do you do that when Webb is speeding through space at high speed, the earth is moving around the sun at 65,000 MPH and rotating at upwards of 1000MPH?  At a million miles away the earth looks pretty small, and a satellite receiver (I don't care if it's the size of a football field) would be so tiny as to be undetectable even if Webb turned its optics towards it.  Finally, the POWER required to transmit a signal that far would not be possible on a satellite.  If they had the technology now to broadcast signals this far, they wouldn't need to put 5G transmitters every couple blocks.  That also speaks to the fact that the more concentrated and "high-bandwidth" a signal has to be, the shorter the range.  With 4G, you could put up towers every mile or so and you'd be fine.  With 5G, you need a transmitter every few blocks to make it work.

    Speaking of line-of-sight microwaves, the world record high-bandwidth microwave transmission goes across the Mediterranean Sea, I think nearly 300 miles.  Microwave must be line of sight, but over 300 miles, there would be over a mile or two of globe curvature putting the receiver out of sight.  Specs from the company indicated that the receiver tower is about 150 feet high.