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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 23261 times)

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Offline Jaynek

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2023, 01:11:27 PM »
Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on July 15, 2023, 12:46:50 PM
Although, if I remember correctly, the quote from St. Thomas isn't 100% clear proof that he believed in a globe I'm inclined to believe it is much, much more probable that he did. I don't remember the exact quote but it's like he assumes the globe was proven in a conditional statement I think.

You seem to be thinking of his often cited reference to globe earth in the Summa:

Sciences are differentiated according to the various means through which knowledge is obtained. For the astronomer and the physicist both may prove the same conclusion: that the earth, for instance, is round: the astronomer by means of mathematics (i.e. abstracting from matter), but the physicist by means of matter itself. 

In the Latin it is clear that it is not a conditional because he uses indicative rather than subjunctive mood for the verb.  It is a statement that the earth is round.

I think, however, that clearer (since it does not require knowledge of Latin) evidence of St. Thomas's belief in globe earth is found in his commentary on Aristotle's De Caelo:

Book II Lecture 27 
532. Having determined the truth about the earth's place and about its motion or rest, the Philosopher here determines the truth about its shape.  First he proves that the earth is spherical with natural reasons taken on the part of motion; Secondly, with mathematical and astronomical reasons based on sense observations.

St.Thomas says that the truth about the shape of the earth is that it is spherical.  


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Offline Jaynek

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2023, 01:24:14 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 15, 2023, 12:33:41 PM
Except that the video never claimed that, just citing what St. Thomas believed in a solid firmament with waters above it, and said that this was consistent with the FE cosmology ... i.e. flies in the face of NASA cosmology of the ball floating around in space.  You appear to be very educated, but I often see a lot of sloppy thinking and poor logic, where you conflate things.  You often cite St. Thomas as your authority for ball earth, but then you don't accept what he holds regarding the firmament.

The video claimed that they were giving clear proof that medieval thinkers believed in flat earth. I am not willing to watch it again to quote the exact words.

I often cite St. Thomas to show that it is not likely to be contrary to Catholic teaching to believe in globe earth or to show how common the belief was in Catholic history.  I do not cite St. Thomas as an authority on science.  I rarely discuss the science aspects of this at all.  I am interested in the theology and history aspects. 
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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2023, 01:36:34 PM »
Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on July 15, 2023, 12:46:50 PM
Although, if I remember correctly, the quote from St. Thomas isn't 100% clear proof that he believed in a globe I'm inclined to believe it is much, much more probable that he did. I don't remember the exact quote but it's like he assumes the globe was proven in a conditional statement I think.

Yea, Thomas isn't entirely forthcoming about his final decision, although he does appear to support the Fathers who did not think earth was a globe because of his appreciation for the firmament. As I remember, in his big digression about Aristotle's opinion, Thomas seems to come to the conclusion that if the earth is moving, it's probably a globe, but that if it's stationary, it has to be flat.  In fact, there is a traditional flat earth priest I know who says that, in his personal opinion, that's the proof Thomas didn't believe earth is a globe.  
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Offline Marulus Fidelis

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2023, 01:40:09 PM »
Quote from: Tradman on July 15, 2023, 01:36:34 PM

Yea, Thomas isn't entirely forthcoming about his final decision, although he does appear to support the Fathers who did not think earth was a globe because of his appreciation for the firmament. As I remember, in his big digression about Aristotle's opinion, Thomas seems to come to the conclusion that if the earth is moving, it's probably a globe, but that if it's stationary, it has to be flat.  In fact, there is a traditional flat earth priest I know who says that, in his personal opinion, that's the proof Thomas didn't believe earth is a globe. 
I guess I'll take a look again then. 
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Offline Tradman

  • Supporter
Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2023, 01:45:49 PM »
Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on July 15, 2023, 01:40:09 PM
I guess I'll take a look again then.
Great, because many of us would be interested to know what you find.  It's one reason why the subject is so important.  More people doing more research to find the truth.  
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