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Author Topic: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO  (Read 10173 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2021, 09:33:26 AM »
Quote from: Stanley N on July 27, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Your presence at a wedding is you giving honor to the couple getting married. The only reason you're there is the wedding, unless you happen to be a member of the church where the wedding occurs.

Your question is conflating another issue. If a Catholic were to marry outside the Church (without dispensation, so invalid), you couldn't go (due to potentially giving scandal).
You may think that my passive presence at a non-Catholic wedding gives honor or respect to the couple, but I think it is actually viewed as nothing other than my approval of them getting married in a non-Catholic service. I see no honor in that.

I accept that they are (getting) married, but while I may have a want to be present, I have no need to be there for it, nor does my passive presence do anything for the good of their souls, and in that regard, if anything, it only makes matters worse.
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Offline Stanley N

Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2021, 09:56:52 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on July 27, 2021, 09:33:26 AM
You may think that my passive presence at a non-Catholic wedding gives honor or respect to the couple, but I think it is actually viewed as nothing other than my approval of them getting married in a non-Catholic service. I see no honor in that.
Even if the couple are themselves non-Catholic?

We have social ties with our friends and associates, some of whom are likely non-Catholic. There are limits and other considerations, but if my non-Catholic co-worker invites me to his son's non-Catholic wedding, it's at least a possibility that attending is the most virtuous course of action. 

Providence may even lead to other benefits. I may later pull on the same social ties and invite him to my son's Catholic wedding, which might start my co-worker on the path to conversion.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2021, 10:34:02 AM »
Quote from: Stanley N on July 27, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Even if the couple are themselves non-Catholic?

We have social ties with our friends and associates, some of whom are likely non-Catholic. There are limits and other considerations, but if my non-Catholic co-worker invites me to his son's non-Catholic wedding, it's at least a possibility that attending is the most virtuous course of action.

Providence may even lead to other benefits. I may later pull on the same social ties and invite him to my son's Catholic wedding, which might start my co-worker on the path to conversion.
My reply was referencing the OP's situation.

For me, I do not go to any non-Catholic wedding or funeral services no matter what...I went to one NO funeral once about 20+ years ago and will never do that again, it was beyond sickening.

Anyway, consider that your thoughts regarding the conversion of a non-Catholic coming to your son's wedding, which is noble,  fine and very good! But it might well be the same thoughts non-Catholics have regarding a Catholic going to their wedding - which is a reason why the general rule is to stay away from non-Catholic ceremonies.     
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2021, 10:46:42 AM »

Quote
It is unlawful for Catholics to assist actively in any way at, or take part in, the religious services of non-Catholics.
A passive or merely material presence may be tolerated, for reasons of civil duty or honor, at funerals, weddings, and similar celebrations, provided no danger of perversion or scandal arises from this assistance. In doubtful cases the reason for assisting must be grave, and recognized as such by the Bishop.

1.  "Civil duty or honor" is one, complete thought.  You guys are dishonestly separating the 2 into 2 different reasons.  FALSE.
2.  You can attend weddings/funerals (not masses), for the reason in #1.  "Civil duty or honor". 
3.  What is civil duty/honor?  This would be if a catholic mayor had to attend the death of a protestant senator or a protestant governor, or a protestant civil leader.  This has to do with GOVERNMENT; that's what civil means.
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4.  Even if you water-down the "honor" reason to include family/friends, there is NO ALLOWANCE for attending a sunday service, merely funerals/weddings are allowed. 
5.  The reason for family/friends is not grave, so that's another watering-down you've done.
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6.  None of this includes an allowance for attending an illicit mass.  Canon Law is clear on this.  Attending illicit masses are a mortal sin.
7.  None of this includes an allowance for attending masses from heretic priests (of the new rite or any heretics).  Attending heretic masses is a mortal sin, per canon law.
8.  None of this includes an allowance for attending masses which are profane, sacrilegious, or blasphemous.  Canon law forbids attendance at such, under grave sin.
9.  Doubfully valid masses = also grave sin, per canon law.
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10.  The worst error/lie you all commit is self-defining a new mass as a protestant service, so you can use the above canon to your liking.  Such a shameful, deceitful act.  You self-interpret whatever you want, to fit your own desires and your own version of Traditionalism.  Such pride, such spiritual immaturity.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2021, 10:49:34 AM »

Quote
Not everyone in Tradition has held to the ultra rigorist position that Fr. Wathen did. 
Yes, in the 70s and 80s, most did.  They had no other choice.  You either said the TLM outside of new-rome's authority, or you said the new mass along with the Modernists.  The lines were drawn back then.
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Quote
Archbishop Lefebvre didn't.  Bishop Williamson doesn't.

They did agree, in theory.  They also softened, over time, especially after the 1988 indult came into existence.
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