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Author Topic: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO  (Read 10163 times)

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Offline Emile

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2021, 12:54:23 AM »
'm not going to write a history book to explain to you the common-knowledge of how Traditionalism started in the 60s and 70s.  If you don't already know this, then you're woefully uneducated on the topic and shouldn't even be talking about it.
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Suffice it to say, from the period of 1969 (when the new mass came out) til the period of 1988 (when new-rome started the indult mass), there were almost no TLMs said in parishes or dioceses across the globe.  Everything was the new mass.  Except those Trad priests who had left new-rome and found Trad laity, where mass was said in garages, hotel rooms, basements and rental halls.  Until they saved up $ to buy/rent buildings which were turned into chapels.  This took years.
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So for the period of almost 20 years, the only TLMs said on the planet were by Trad priests.  Not authorized by new-rome and not available in parishes/dioceses.  There was no FSSP.  No ICK.  No Summorum Pontificuм.  No indult TLMs.  Sure, there were some old, retired priests who said the TLM in a small parish chapel a few times a week.  But not on sundays.  Sundays, it was new mass or nothing.  This is historical fact.
Thank you for the brief history lesson I am quite familiar with everything that you wrote. However, none of your reply answered what I wrote:


Quote
1) Instead you have made several factually erroneous statements regarding protestantism,
2)have not provided evidence (beyond Fr. Wathen's book, of course) that most trad clergy used to hold said position,
3)and have insulted everyone who disagrees with you.
If you would like to provide actual evidence, I am open to considering it.




Offline Emile

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2021, 01:44:54 AM »
Quote
...provided no danger of perversion or scandal arises from this assistance.
I want to highlight this point, not so much for the regular posters who are pretty secure in the Faith, but for the αnσnymσus readers of CI who are at all different levels.
This part requires a judgment call and, if you are not certain, I recommend that you pray, study, and seek the advice of a trusted Priest, preferably one who has known you for a while, to help you do the right thing in your particular situation.


Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2021, 03:12:09 AM »
Yes, the 60s/70s were "horror days" for trads. Imagine converting to the Faith in those days, as I did. 

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2021, 05:51:29 AM »
It is unlawful for Catholics to assist actively in any way at, or take part in, the religious services of non-Catholics.
A passive or merely material presence may be tolerated, for reasons of civil duty office or honor, at funerals, weddings, and similar celebrations, provided no danger of perversion or scandal arises from this assistance. In doubtful cases the reason for assisting must be grave, and recognized as such by the Bishop.


Canon 1258 does not say protestant anywhere. It says non-Catholic.
s1. makes the distinction ACTIVE assistance. It does NOT forbid passive presence. It DOES forbid active assistance and taking part in a non-Catholic services (ie. joining in the prayers, serving as groomsman or bridesmaid, etc.)
It also does not make the distinction between a wedding and a service that you claim.


s2. ...In doubtful cases the reason for assisting must be grave, and recognized as such by the Bishop.
The red highlighted words in your above quote appear to be flying over your head....

No one's honor is at stake, of this there is no doubt - scratch this reason for going.
The OP's daughter's wedding has nothing whatsoever to do with any civil office, of this there is no doubt, scratch this reason for going. There is no grave reason, so scratch this idea too.

So with no doubts, with no honor at stake, with no civil office involved, and with no grave reason to attend at all, exactly what answer should be expected from the OP's bishop?



Offline Emile

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2021, 08:10:43 AM »
The red highlighted words in your above quote appear to be flying over your head....

No one's honor is at stake, of this there is no doubt - scratch this reason for going.
The OP's daughter's wedding has nothing whatsoever to do with any civil office, of this there is no doubt, scratch this reason for going. There is no grave reason, so scratch this idea too.

So with no doubts, with no honor at stake, with no civil office involved, and with no grave reason to attend at all, exactly what answer should be expected from the OP's bishop?
This work has a slightly different English translation that might make the meaning clearer for you:
https://archive.org/details/pointsofchurchla0000slat/page/21/mode/1up
You seem to be misunderstanding "honoris". From the Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin (Leo F. Stelton): "honor, distinction, esteem, reward, acknowledgement"
As for doubt simply reread the sentence:
In doubtful cases the reason for assisting must be grave, and recognized as such by the Bishop
The slightly different translation may help as well. Sorry, I don't have time right now to type it out.