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Author Topic: SSG School  (Read 7415 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: SSG School
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2022, 06:05:05 AM »
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  • You're the one claiming the organization has a stain. I am asking why it has one, and I haven't heard a real answer yet.

    You've heard the answer several times already:  Schuckhardt.

    CMRI devotees are simply in denial.  If the crimes of an organization's founder don't stain or taint the organization then nothing does.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #46 on: May 23, 2022, 06:06:57 AM »
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  • They have already, by driving him out and suing him to gain legal control of the properties. Schuckhardt died forgotten, alone and disgraced, with a couple of fanatical adherents who followed him despite his rejection by the community ...

    And the manner in which they expelled Schuckhardt was rather disgraceful in itself, but that's a separate issue.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #47 on: May 23, 2022, 06:08:41 AM »
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  • Someone (LoT) posited the notion that CMRI has no baggage.  Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the history of the CMRI knows that isn't true.

    Only the CMRI devotees keep trying to pretend otherwise.  Baggage is a loose term, nothing with any kind of theological precision, but the VERY FACT that we're having this conversation IS in fact the baggage.

    Offline angelusmaria

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #48 on: May 23, 2022, 07:03:32 AM »
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  • You've heard the answer several times already:  Schuckhardt.

    CMRI devotees are simply in denial.  If the crimes of an organization's founder don't stain or taint the organization then nothing does.
    Again, take a look at the Capuchins, whose founder was Ludovico, who apostatized.  Ochino is also credited as founder, who too went astray.  Then the chroniclers tried to pin the founding on Matteo da Bascia who left the order shortly after having been shoved into the office of Vicar General, an office he was wholly unfit for.
    https://www.capdox.capuchin.org.au/studies/considerations-on-the-capuchin-charism/#post-425-_Toc508963791
    please pray for me

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #49 on: May 23, 2022, 07:36:35 AM »
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  • Again, the fact that we're even having this discussion = baggage.  Some of your are just in denial.


    Offline Vanguard

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #50 on: May 23, 2022, 10:11:44 AM »
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  • While I don’t know much about Schuckart, the original founder who apparently was expelled and is dead, I will say that I think it’s pretty amazing that despite this fact and despite the fact that this world currently is in a downward path, that the CMRI is trying to go against the tide and is bringing the Mass and Catholic faith to many people who would otherwise be out of luck. 

    The fact that St. Ignatius Loyola was the founder of the Jesuits doesn’t matter when the present day Jesuits are producing the likes of Jorge Bergolio and others of his ilk who are basically trashing the Catholic faith. 
    The CMRI can’t change it’s past, but it can build a better future, if it remains faithful, to traditional Catholic principles and is resolute in it’s Catholic endeavors.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #51 on: May 23, 2022, 05:44:14 PM »
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  • I don't understand why you equate having "baggage" with being "responsible" for it.  GV explained the different quite well.

    Father Ripperger speaks of "generational (evil) spirits" that can stay with family line, and the abhorrent sins of Shuckhardt probably still haunt the CMRI.  They need to make a clean break from that guy.

    Similarly, it's impossible for people to have any respect for CMRI because of Shuckhardt.
    1.  I don't have an issue with your terminology.  Oftentimes people have "baggage", and that does not mean they are responsible for it. 

    2.  Exactly what would constitutes a "clean break" for you?  And please don't say taking on a new name because that's just pathetic.  I think we all know that if the CMRI took on a new name, people would STILL bring up its beginnings before the name change.

    3.  Don't speak for all people.  You may find it impossible to have any respect for the CMRI, but it's not impossible for people in general to have respect for the CMRI.  I think Bishop Pivarunas is doing an amazing job with the CMRI. It seems to me that he goes out of his way to stay above the fray and to not treat his clergy and religious in a cultish manner. 
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #52 on: May 23, 2022, 06:31:40 PM »
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  • 2.  Exactly what would constitutes a "clean break" for you?  And please don't say taking on a new name because that's just pathetic.  I think we all know that if the CMRI took on a new name, people would STILL bring up its beginnings before the name change.

    New name and a new constitution would largely do it, although there was still a lingering doubt about the validity of the Holy Orders of Daniel Brown.  I don't buy the SSPV smear that he was an Old Catholic, since he did publicly abjure Old Catholicism.  But the Orders were certainly doubtful.  At some point, they were regularized by the +Thuc line bishops.


    Offline bodeens

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #53 on: May 23, 2022, 07:10:22 PM »
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  • I think the baggage is whatever, anyone familiar with The Crisis knows that the jurisdictional situation is a mess too, and +Pivarunas doesn't pretend to be an ordinary Bishop in ordinary times, which is very helpful with all of the armchair theologians making dangerous speculative dogmatic statements. The "barebones necessities" mission of the CMRI is what we need right now. ALL of these orgs have skeletons in the closet. I am not expecting anything to be 100% clear cut and clean at this point or ever. I am just happy to have valid priests.

    The great thing about the CMRI is that they are getting sacraments to people in remote locations and the priests are relentless in their Mass circuits and will drive to provide last sacraments, which you cannot say for other orgs necessarily. I think every trad group is loose on EENS but I will not hate on  priests that drive all of the way across America for a Mass circuit (Fr. Joseph Pham is doing WA -> Georgia right now and ofc everywhere in between). God bless these priests.

    New name and a new constitution would largely do it, although there was still a lingering doubt about the validity of the Holy Orders of Daniel Brown.  I don't buy the SSPV smear that he was an Old Catholic, since he did publicly abjure Old Catholicism.  But the Orders were certainly doubtful.  At some point, they were regularized by the +Thuc line bishops.
    Everyone has orders from +McKenna or +Pivarunas at this point.
    "We dare not even start to hope until the Faith, the true Faith, and its revealed content, are secured in our minds. Only in terms of Faith do we dare to hope."

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #54 on: May 24, 2022, 10:11:18 AM »
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  • Vanguard:  I agree with your post.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #55 on: May 24, 2022, 11:43:15 AM »
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  • Everyone has orders from +McKenna or +Pivarunas at this point.

    +Musey was involved somehow, but I can't recall.  But, yes, I was just referring to what they should have done out of the gate.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #56 on: May 24, 2022, 02:00:34 PM »
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  • New name and a new constitution would largely do it, although there was still a lingering doubt about the validity of the Holy Orders of Daniel Brown.  I don't buy the SSPV smear that he was an Old Catholic, since he did publicly abjure Old Catholicism.  But the Orders were certainly doubtful.  At some point, they were regularized by the +Thuc line bishops.
    .
    Bishop George Musey conditionally ordained all the men Schuckhardt ordained. Later, Bishop Carmona consecrated Bishop Pivarunas. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #57 on: May 25, 2022, 08:10:33 AM »
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  • While there was a significant house-cleaning and notable improvement, the CMRI has baggage by the truckload.  See Bp. Schuckardt.
    Are you saying the currently have baggage?  Do they treat (as a matter of official policy or not) their seminarians, parishioners and or children in school in a cultish or any other negative way?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #58 on: May 25, 2022, 08:13:43 AM »
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  • Schuckhardt was expelled by the other clergy of the CMRI. I don't understand how the people currently in charge of the CMRI can be responsible for an evil that they actively drove out of their community.
    Right.  I'm talking about currently.  This shouldn't be a feeneyite thing.  So, apart from that, (they don't err there) where do they err on any settled doctrines?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: SSG School
    « Reply #59 on: May 25, 2022, 08:15:35 AM »
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  • No, what you don't understand is that people can drive an evil out of their midst and yet still have baggage as a result of the intense, unsavory process.

    Some have argued that they should have changed their name from CMRI, as Schuckardt was far from the only one who left and, what is more, he was the founder.  New name, fresh start; old name, no fresh start?

    FWIW, I taught at the Mount and lived in the rectory (and also taught/lived at the minor seminary in ID, although briefly).  There's baggage.  There's also a lot of good.  Such is the case all throughout Traddieland.
    How would their "baggage" compare with SSG and MHT?  And SSPV for that matter?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church