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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Lover of Truth on May 10, 2022, 06:48:54 AM

Title: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 10, 2022, 06:48:54 AM
I hope this is not off topic but does anyone know if Saint Gertrude the Great still has the same principal they had back when half of the parishioners left over the issue?  Also what is the character of their priests?  I have not been in the loop on that Church for a long time and do not want to give bad advice to anyone.  I'm looking for responses from those who go there or do not go there even though it is close to them.  

Not interested in what people want me to believe despite not knowing anything themselves or in propaganda.

I want the Tooth man.  The TOOTH!  

I'm also looking for a character assessment.  Anyone have comments on my great humility or how wonderful I am. I have been wanting to let everyone know how humble I am, but my huge humility has been restraining me.  I'm looking to improve my character and be reaffirmed in my wonderfulness.  Also any comments on how great I look despite how incredibly huge I am would be helpful.  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 10, 2022, 06:59:05 AM
Anyone have comments on my great humility or how wonderful I am. I have been wanting to let everyone know how humble I am, but my huge humility has been restraining me.

Been reading too much Bergoglio lately?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 10, 2022, 07:04:46 AM
Been reading too much Bergoglio lately?
LOL.  Only if it is on Novus Ordo Watch.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 10, 2022, 08:23:15 AM
I want the Tooth man.  The TOOTH!


Sounds more like you want the Toth. If you were involved in those events, you'll get the reference.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 10, 2022, 08:43:41 AM

Sounds more like you want the Toth. If you were involved in those events, you'll get the reference.
To be clear it is the Truth I want.  Only the TRUTH.  Nothing more and nothing less.  I don't want faults exaggerated or smoothed over.  

I'm missing some teeth and so I pronounce the word "truth" funny.  With two "oo's" not one.  So tell me about this toth guy.  Is he nice and friendly.  A good Catholic perhaps?  
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 10, 2022, 11:20:10 AM
I've gotten some answers which have proved interesting, but what I have not found out yet is who the principal is.  I suppose I could call them and find out for myself straight from them if push comes to shove.  

Pray for all clergy.  They have to render a strict account and they need our prayers more than lay people do oftentimes.  In my opinion.  

I'm trying to get more than one dislike per post, dare I remind you that I am very humble?  More so than anyone else alive today?  

Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Nadir on May 10, 2022, 09:01:39 PM
... I have not found out yet is who the principal is.  I suppose I could call them and find out for myself straight from them if push comes to shove. 
It would seem the more sane approach.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: gladius_veritatis on May 10, 2022, 09:13:58 PM
The man's name is Mark Lotarski.  There is no reason to believe he is not still doing his thing at sgg.org/skewl.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 11, 2022, 02:37:58 AM
That is all I need to know. Thanks Gladius 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 11, 2022, 06:02:54 AM
The man's name is Mark Lotarski.  There is no reason to believe he is not still doing his thing at sgg.org/skewl.

Lotarski's LinkedIn still shows him there as principle of SGG.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-lotarski-a2b94649/

I suspect that Bishop Dolan is / will be doing some Purgatory time for leaving that man in place.  How many years did he have to take care of that situation?  People think that Lotarski might have some dirt on Bishop Dolan to have him be so protected.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Degrelle on May 16, 2022, 10:15:57 AM
I hope this is not off topic but does anyone know if Saint Gertrude the Great still has the same principal they had back when half of the parishioners left over the issue?  Also what is the character of their priests?  I have not been in the loop on that Church for a long time and do not want to give bad advice to anyone.  I'm looking for responses from those who go there or do not go there even though it is close to them. 

Not interested in what people want me to believe despite not knowing anything themselves or in propaganda.

I've asked my friends who attend SGG to confirm to me the current situation with the principal at SGG school.

I do know that Fr. Lehtoranta has been heavily involved in running the school but I am waiting to hear back what Mr. Lotarski's current role is and whether Fr. Lehtoranta is principal or director of the school.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Degrelle on May 16, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
I confirmed that Mark Lotarski retired from being principal and Fr. Lehtoranta is the principal now.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Giacomo on May 16, 2022, 03:55:50 PM


I suspect that Bishop Dolan is / will be doing some Purgatory time for leaving that man in place.  How many years did he have to take care of that situation?  People think that Lotarski might have some dirt on Bishop Dolan to have him be so protected.
According to several people who were there at SGG, Lotarski did have some "dirt" on Dolan (and Cekada).  Now that they are both dead, that "leverage" no longer exists.  If Lehtoranta is smart, he should make sure that Lotarski (or any of his family) have nothing to do with the school anymore.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 06:52:55 PM
According to several people who were there at SGG, Lotarski did have some "dirt" on Dolan (and Cekada).  Now that they are both dead, that "leverage" no longer exists.  If Lehtoranta is smart, he should make sure that Lotarski (or any of his family) have nothing to do with the school anymore.

So did Lotarski resign(?) recently after the death of Bishop Dolan?  If so, the timing suggests that he no longer has protection from Bishop Dolan.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Degrelle on May 18, 2022, 08:35:19 AM
So did Lotarski resign(?) recently after the death of Bishop Dolan?  If so, the timing suggests that he no longer has protection from Bishop Dolan.

My information is that he retired/resigned some time ago, before the deaths of either Bp. Dolan or Fr. Cekada ... I can get the exact date but I believe Fr. Lehtoranta took over as principal to start either the 2018/2019 or 2019/2018 school year. Possibly earlier. I'll ask my friends who attend SGG.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Attracta on May 18, 2022, 02:35:40 PM
I do not expect SGG school to survive much longer. Only +Dolan could persuade people to keep sending their children after the 2008-9 disaster. Country-boy +McGuire -- as Fr. McK described him in his sermon today -- does not have the gravitas or the persuasiveness to get people to pay tuition. In fact, SGG may not be able to survive +Dolan's passing. Look for fissures to appear among the clergy very soon. One prediction now in circulation in Ohio is that the out of state missions will exit the SGG orbit and become independent. With no students, the current principal may leave for greener educational pastures, perhaps in publishing. SGG parishioners will soon become disillusioned because +McGuire is definitely not +Dolan and never can be, especially in the sermon department. Without the personality of the "old bishop," as +Dolan quaintly called himself, there's no substance left. People will drift to the CMRI's "Little Flower" Mass Center, Immaculate Conception, or even +Ramolla's place, if only to hear someone serious preach. Also look for new membership in SSPX chapels.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 04:51:23 PM
Yes, I suspected precisely this now that both of the senior clergy (Bishop Dolan and Father Cekada) have passed away, that the younger priest would not have enough respect and "authority" (in the informal sense) ... related to your term gravitas ... to keep things together.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: SimpleMan on May 18, 2022, 04:59:12 PM
I do not expect SGG school to survive much longer. Only +Dolan could persuade people to keep sending their children after the 2008-9 disaster. Country-boy +McGuire -- as Fr. McK described him in his sermon today -- does not have the gravitas or the persuasiveness to get people to pay tuition. In fact, SGG may not be able to survive +Dolan's passing. Look for fissures to appear among the clergy very soon. One prediction now in circulation in Ohio is that the out of state missions will exit the SGG orbit and become independent. With no students, the current principal may leave for greener educational pastures, perhaps in publishing. SGG parishioners will soon become disillusioned because +McGuire is definitely not +Dolan and never can be, especially in the sermon department. Without the personality of the "old bishop," as +Dolan quaintly called himself, there's no substance left. People will drift to the CMRI's "Little Flower" Mass Center, Immaculate Conception, or even +Ramolla's place, if only to hear someone serious preach. Also look for new membership in SSPX chapels.
So what is going to happen then with that big church they built in West Chester?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Giacomo on May 18, 2022, 07:16:57 PM
SSG’s “church” really isn’t all that big.  It was originally meant to be a gymnasium for SGG’s school; but it was pressed into service as a church, when the parishioners balked at building the multi-million dollar “sermon in stone” that Dolan originally wanted.  The school, built to have a capacity for 200 to 300, only housed (at most) two dozen or so pupils.  (Most of the “school rooms” have been used to store Dolan’s ecclesiastical paraphernalia that he acquired over the years.)  Both the church and school have had structural problems, including several roof leaks, plumbing and HVAC problems, and animal infestation (raccoons and mice).  If human enrollment shrinks, perhaps the facility might find new life as an indoor zoo. 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: SimpleMan on May 18, 2022, 07:33:06 PM
SSG’s “church” really isn’t all that big.  It was originally meant to be a gymnasium for SGG’s school; but it was pressed into service as a church, when the parishioners balked at building the multi-million dollar “sermon in stone” that Dolan originally wanted.  The school, built to have a capacity for 200 to 300, only housed (at most) two dozen or so pupils.  (Most of the “school rooms” have been used to store Dolan’s ecclesiastical paraphernalia that he acquired over the years.)  Both the church and school have had structural problems, including several roof leaks, plumbing and HVAC problems, and animal infestation (raccoons and mice).  If human enrollment shrinks, perhaps the facility might find new life as an indoor zoo.

I was just going by the picture on their website.  Admittedly, it does look a little "off" in the picture, as though it was retro-fitted or something.  Now it makes sense.

I've never been to the West Chester church, though I have been to the old church in Sharonville.  I want to say I have been there twice, and was comparing notes with my mother --- she and I went by ourselves one time, as my father was sick and had to stay at the hotel --- though I can't recall the details of both trips.  I distinctly remember my father going with us, in fact, we had to stop at a Kmart to get my mother a scarf to cover her head, but...

Maybe I dreamed that part or something.  Doesn't pay to get old.  
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 18, 2022, 10:38:06 PM
I was just going by the picture on their website.  Admittedly, it does look a little "off" in the picture, as though it was retro-fitted or something.  Now it makes sense.

I've never been to the West Chester church, though I have been to the old church in Sharonville.  I want to say I have been there twice, and was comparing notes with my mother --- she and I went by ourselves one time, as my father was sick and had to stay at the hotel --- though I can't recall the details of both trips.  I distinctly remember my father going with us, in fact, we had to stop at a Kmart to get my mother a scarf to cover her head, but...

Maybe I dreamed that part or something.  Doesn't pay to get old. 

I enjoy your stories.  Thanks SimpleMan :)
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: SimpleMan on May 18, 2022, 11:48:18 PM
I enjoy your stories.  Thanks SimpleMan :)
And I enjoy writing them.  My father has been gone from us ten months now.  My mother is utterly destroyed and, while she has no life-threatening conditions (at least not so far as anyone knows), the companionship of my son --- her only grandchild --- is the only thing that keeps her going.  He stays with her while I maintain my parents' larger house --- it's a win-win for everyone, I get more space, she gets a compact house that is easy for her to maneuver, and my son has staked out a large portion of the house as his territory.  I go there to homeschool him, as well as to run errands too numerous to count for the two of them.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Giacomo on May 19, 2022, 07:45:56 AM
That's a great arrangement:  just like the old days, when family -- not some impersonal nursing home (= death camp) "took care" of them.  BTW, my grandkids are a great joy to me as well.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 20, 2022, 12:35:16 PM
I've asked my friends who attend SGG to confirm to me the current situation with the principal at SGG school.

I do know that Fr. Lehtoranta has been heavily involved in running the school but I am waiting to hear back what Mr. Lotarski's current role is and whether Fr. Lehtoranta is principal or director of the school.
Thank you for this.  I don't know why I do not get e-mail notifications.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 20, 2022, 12:36:36 PM
I confirmed that Mark Lotarski retired from being principal and Fr. Lehtoranta is the principal now.
Really?  Wow!  Now I need to know if there are still issues.  Is it safe to send your children there?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Degrelle on May 20, 2022, 12:38:10 PM
Really?  Wow!  Now I need to know if there are still issues.  Is it safe to send your children there?
Unfortunately I cannot speak to that, as I don't know anyone who has children currently in the school and I live in Canada.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 20, 2022, 12:38:35 PM
So did Lotarski resign(?) recently after the death of Bishop Dolan?  If so, the timing suggests that he no longer has protection from Bishop Dolan.
I guessed that long ago.  There would be no reason to keep him otherwise.  But much reason to let him go.  They kick other people out easy enough.  
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 20, 2022, 01:38:21 PM
I got berated by some pant-wearing females over the issue.  I simply asked “Does anyone know who the principal is at Saint Gertrude the Great now? Would you recommend that school to parents with young children? The questions are for anyone with first-hand knowledge. Thank you very much!”

See the comments in the below thread:

https://novusordowatch.org/2022/05/francis-message-to-lgbtq-catholics/#disqus_thread (https://novusordowatch.org/2022/05/francis-message-to-lgbtq-catholics/#disqus_thread)

Remember what happened in the 50’s and 60’s when the clergy was not held accountable? 

A simple answer to the question would have sufficed.  But no, the clergy that wreck souls are the good guys.  People with legitimate and important questions are bad for even asking.  Sede-land can be a scary place.  Sends people back to the NO or worse. An accurate response could have even helped SSG if there is improvement, since two of the three main characters in that scandal which was ongoing are gone.  Anyone who did not know anything about the situation could not have gleaned any information from that comment.  It was quite innocuous.  I think they responded in such a way because I inadvertently offended them about pant-wearing when I just assumed them to be traditional Catholics since they were SV.  So that was a kind of getchyaback type of thing.  Plus, one of them seems to think Trump and Biden would be equally harmful to the country and does not like my views on that.

But on the topic, I now will share the following points:

I wasn't sure why it was bad to ask if it is an ongoing problem.  Scandal is a terrible sin, especially for children.  And families.  Souls are involved and people like to pretend it didn't happen, smooth it over, or act like there is still no problem.  Daring to ask about is considered terrible.  I feel like I'm missing something.  The traditional clergy is all we have, if we don't hold them accountable what will be left?  I'm perfectly fine being the "bad guy" if it discourages future clergy from pulling the same stunt.  I’m aware of people who did not have children who left SSG on principal alone.  There was an utter lack of accountability at SSG. 

The "stars" that left SSPX seem to have more baggage than CMRI (I’ve been on record saying if I had a vote for pope, it would be bishop Pivarunas.)  You can’t argue with CMRI's position on the liturgy and and I certainly hold the pure-sv position over the novel Material/Formal position.  I tend to like the views of the former SSPXers more (means nothing in the grand scheme of things), but they tend to be more cultish quite frankly.  I think the original 9 and even the three that left after that, apart from those in groups tend to be very good, however.  Ahern, Collins, and I think McMahon is good despite his past.  But the rest leave you wondering.  My wife has encountered problems with the SSPX.  I learned first-hand about what went on with the Society of Saint John.  Our experience with SSPV was atrocious.  How do you explain it?

It is hard to respect people who value agendas more than truth (we must not warn people with children about the danger to their souls if it means anything negative about clergy).  The frustration with being ignored by clergy over hugely important issues, the proper route for solving things not being acknowledged led people to take another path.  It leaves people scandalized and bitter.  I know people were very hurt over any number of things pertaining to that dynamic duo.  I don't doubt there was good about them.  They were certainly important historical figures.  But in that position, you have to be extra careful about public scandal.  I think every person in existence falls into one of two categories.  They are either good people who sometimes have done or do bad things.  Or bad people who sometimes do good things.  We have no way of knowing for sure, who is who, unless it is revealed with undeniable proof.  If I feel like I do, imagine how people feel that are not familiar with the faith and go by how they are treated or what they see around them.  When clergy lead souls to hell, which results in their reputation getting ruined for accurate reasons, perhaps that's good?  Accountability indeed is a good thing.  And someone has to do it.  There is no visible authority they have to answer to, and that has proven to be a bad thing.  A Pope is necessary for so many reasons!


Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 20, 2022, 02:19:28 PM
I'll go on record to say I'm not aware that CMRI has any baggage at all.  That is, I am not aware of any bad characters, or ill-treatment of their parishioners, seminarians or students. 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: gladius_veritatis on May 20, 2022, 09:31:32 PM
I'll go on record to say I'm not aware that CMRI has any baggage at all.

While there was a significant house-cleaning and notable improvement, the CMRI has baggage by the truckload.  See Bp. Schuckardt.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 21, 2022, 07:38:57 AM
While there was a significant house-cleaning and notable improvement, the CMRI has baggage by the truckload.  See Bp. Schuckardt.

Yeah, given the early days of CMRI ... particularly related to its founder ... how can anyone claim that CMRI has no baggage unless they're deluded and in denial?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 21, 2022, 07:43:49 AM
The "stars" that left SSPX seem to have more baggage than CMRI (I’ve been on record saying if I had a vote for pope, it would be bishop Pivarunas.)  You can’t argue with CMRI's position on the liturgy and and I certainly hold the pure-sv position over the novel Material/Formal position.

:facepalm:  +Pivarunas who denies EENS dogma and approves of NFP?  While he seems like a "nice guy," he's not really much of an intellectual.  Ah, the "PURE" SV position ... which is wrong.  Sedeprivationism makes the most sense by far, and it solves and puts to bed nearly all the legitimate objections to "pure" sedevacantism.

CMRI has twice published an article:  "The Salvation of those Outside the Church" ... a DIRECT WORD FOR WORD contradiction of EENS dogma.  They don't even pay lip service to the dogmatic formula, pretending that, well, there are people who are outside the Church but really inside the Church, but rather contradict the dogmatic formula word for word.  They might as well have published an article entitled, "The Original Sin of Mary".

EENS denial and the resultant ecclesiology (or partial belonging to the Church by non-Catholics) is absolutely at the root of the V2 ecclesiology, and if you believe as CMRI does about it, then there's absolutely zero justification for rejecting V2 as heretical.  When asked what's erroneous or heretical about V2, the first thing that comes out of most sedevacantists' mouth is the ecclesiology.  And yet they hold to principles that are identical to the foundations of V2 ecclesiology.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Vanguard on May 21, 2022, 12:20:14 PM
While I think that Ladislaus has some points, I also think that hitting Bishop Pivarunas on just being a nice guy without too much concern for dogma is misleading. 
First off, I will state that I disagree with Bishop Pivarunas on EENS and BOD. However, I do think that his position has been taught through most of the 20th century in catechisms, etc. He is merely trying to uphold what he has learned. In addition, I think all of the other Sede and otherwise bishops believe the same thing. The CMRI is just more honest about it. Unfortunately, they don’t seem to see the contradiction in any of it. We can only pray for them. 
Secondly, regarding NFP, it shouldn’t be considered in such a negative light IMO. We use breakthroughs in science all the time that allow for people to live longer e.g. dialysis, antibiotics, insulin etc. just to name a few of those from the 20th century. I don’t understand why we wouldn’t be able to use scientific knowledge for better regulation of birth, especially for those who may have extreme struggles and stress either with mental health issues or financial issues or physical issues. Yes, trust in God, but why not help yourself? I think Bishop Pivarunas is correct on this. 
Finally, Bishop Pivarunas is a very nice person, his priests I’ve met are kind and helpful. He started and maintains a seminary, and some of his priests have weighed in on things like the vaccine that have been helpful and public. Jesus used fishermen, and figures like David to confound. I think we should pray for him and his priests to help them do the will of God. 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: songbird on May 21, 2022, 05:05:18 PM
Vanguard:  I agree with your post.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 21, 2022, 07:47:57 PM
Yeah, given the early days of CMRI ... particularly related to its founder ... how can anyone claim that CMRI has no baggage unless they're deluded and in denial?
Schuckhardt was expelled by the other clergy of the CMRI. I don't understand how the people currently in charge of the CMRI can be responsible for an evil that they actively drove out of their community.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 21, 2022, 08:19:45 PM
Schuckhardt was expelled by the other clergy of the CMRI. I don't understand how the people currently in charge of the CMRI can be responsible for an evil that they actively drove out of their community.

Nobody says that current CMRI members are "responsible" for Shuckhardt.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 21, 2022, 08:32:19 PM
Nobody says that current CMRI members are "responsible" for Shuckhardt.
I thought you said they had "baggage" from Schuckhardt.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: gladius_veritatis on May 21, 2022, 10:36:49 PM
I don't understand how the people currently in charge of the CMRI can be responsible for an evil that they actively drove out of their community.

No, what you don't understand is that people can drive an evil out of their midst and yet still have baggage as a result of the intense, unsavory process.

Some have argued that they should have changed their name from CMRI, as Schuckardt was far from the only one who left and, what is more, he was the founder.  New name, fresh start; old name, no fresh start?

FWIW, I taught at the Mount and lived in the rectory (and also taught/lived at the minor seminary in ID, although briefly).  There's baggage.  There's also a lot of good.  Such is the case all throughout Traddieland. 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Durango77 on May 22, 2022, 01:16:15 AM
Schuckhardt was expelled by the other clergy of the CMRI. I don't understand how the people currently in charge of the CMRI can be responsible for an evil that they actively drove out of their community.
People still bring up the schuckhardt stuff from over 40 years ago are just looking to detract from the CMRI.  
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: angelusmaria on May 22, 2022, 09:20:11 AM
People still bring up the schuckhardt stuff from over 40 years ago are just looking to detract from the CMRI. 
100% agree.  Perhaps they would benefit from learning about the seriously dysfunctional origins of the Capuchins, far from being a Bella Riforma, was plagued with Lutherans, Joachimist Franciscan Spirituals, in-fighting and political intrigues.  Yet the early Capuchin Reform produced many saints, and for a while at least, righted itself.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 22, 2022, 06:00:29 PM
Some have argued that they should have changed their name from CMRI, as Schuckardt was far from the only one who left and, what is more, he was the founder.  New name, fresh start; old name, no fresh start?
.

It seems a little simplistic to say that they are not getting a new start if they don't change their name after expelling Schuckhardt. What is the basis of this idea? Moreover, their name is holy; they are named after Our Lady. Why would someone change that? It's not like they're called the Schuckhardtites, or the "Brethren of Sodom", or something else objectionable.

It's just an ad hoc assertion to say that they have some sort of obligation to change their name.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 22, 2022, 07:29:45 PM
I thought you said they had "baggage" from Schuckhardt.

I don't understand why you equate having "baggage" with being "responsible" for it.  GV explained the different quite well.

It's like a stain or a taint on the orgazation.  They should have dissolved the original CMRI, tweaked the name, and formed a new organization.  It's not unlike with Maciel and The Legionaries.  Religious Congregations typically take pride in their founder and take their spirit from their founder.  Very often Rome would evaluate the virtues of a congregation's or religious order's founder before giving approbation to it.

I know several SV priests (one now a bishop) who didn't want to get involved with CMRI due to this tainted history, despite considering the Thuc line valid.

Father Ripperger speaks of "generational (evil) spirits" that can stay with family line, and the abhorrent sins of Shuckhardt probably still haunt the CMRI.  They need to make a clean break from that guy.

People associate religious groups with their founders.  Who doesn't think of St. Ignatius when the Jesuits are mentioned?  What if it had later been revealed that Ignatius had been a sodomite and a pedophile rapist?  I'm pretty sure the Jesuits would have ceased to exist within minutes of the revelation.  Who would then have ever been able to have respect for the Jesuits ever again?  Anti-Catholics would use it as ammunition with which to attack the Church.  Similarly, it's impossible for people to have any respect for CMRI because of Shuckhardt.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 22, 2022, 08:20:43 PM
I don't understand why you equate having "baggage" with being "responsible" for it.  GV explained the different quite well.

It's like a stain or a taint on the orgazation.  Very often Rome would evaluate the virtues of a congregation's or religious order's founder before giving approbation to it.

You're the one claiming the organization has a stain. I am asking why it has one, and I haven't heard a real answer yet.

Quote
They should have dissolved the original CMRI, tweaked the name, and formed a new organization.

And what would that change, exactly? Same people, same rule, just different name? That would make a huge difference? You're saying they should have gone through some legal fiction of changing their name, and that would have made a huge change in the organization. I don't see why. Changing the name of an organization is just a legal fiction, and their name was beautiful to begin with, since it was the name of Mary.

Quote
Religious Congregations typically take pride in their founder and take their spirit from their founder.

Evidently the CMRI doesn't, though, since they drove their founder out.

Quote
I know several SV priests (one now a bishop) who didn't want to get involved with CMRI due to this tainted history, despite considering the Thuc line valid.


You are being a little naive here. Their motive is one of competition and clerical politics, not one of principle.

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Father Ripperger speaks of "generational (evil) spirits" that can stay with family line, and the abhorrent sins of Shuckhardt probably still haunt the CMRI.  They need to make a clean break from that guy.


They have already, by driving him out and suing him to gain legal control of the properties. Schuckhardt died forgotten, alone and disgraced, with a couple of fanatical adherents who followed him despite his rejection by the community, while the rest of the CMRI went on to cleanse their organization and has gone from strength to strength ever since. And by the way, Fr. Ripperger is first of all not a valid priest, and secondly he is a purveyor of charismatic "spirituality" and superstition at best, and a simple warlock at worst.

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People associate religious groups with their founders.  Who doesn't think of St. Ignatius when the Jesuits are mentioned?  What if it had later been revealed that Ignatius had been a sodomite and a pedophile rapist?  I'm pretty sure the Jesuits would have ceased to exist within minutes of the revelation.  Who would then have ever been able to have respect for the Jesuits ever again?  Anti-Catholics would use it as ammunition with which to attack the Church.  Similarly, it's impossible for people to have any respect for CMRI because of Shuckhardt.

If it's not enough for you that the CMRI priests drove out their founder to live out his life in oblivion and disgrace, then I don't know what you want. If you don't have respect for people who drive evildoers out of their community, then that is a poor reflection on you, not the people you for whom you have contempt.



Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: gladius_veritatis on May 22, 2022, 10:01:09 PM
What is the basis of this idea?

It's just an ad hoc assertion to say that they have some sort of obligation to change their name.

I asked a question, presuming all who read it would understand and take it as such.  Apparently I was mistaken.  C'est la vie; life is too busy and too short for me to care too much about it.

I made no assertions of any kind, ad hoc or otherwise, respecting anyone's obligations to do anything whatsoever, so your comment is utterly meaningless.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: gladius_veritatis on May 22, 2022, 10:10:19 PM
People still bring up the schuckhardt stuff from over 40 years ago are just looking to detract from the CMRI. 

Someone (LoT) posited the notion that CMRI has no baggage.  Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the history of the CMRI knows that isn't true.  No one is saying the proverbial house was not thoroughly cleansed, etc., or that they are not doing a great deal of good in the oft-bewildering world of Traddieland, but stating an historical fact is not detraction in any way, shape or form.  I am sorry if you are unable or unwilling, for whatever reason, to understand and accept this indisputable fact.  Godspeed in the wild, difficult days to come.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 23, 2022, 06:05:05 AM
You're the one claiming the organization has a stain. I am asking why it has one, and I haven't heard a real answer yet.

You've heard the answer several times already:  Schuckhardt.

CMRI devotees are simply in denial.  If the crimes of an organization's founder don't stain or taint the organization then nothing does.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 23, 2022, 06:06:57 AM
They have already, by driving him out and suing him to gain legal control of the properties. Schuckhardt died forgotten, alone and disgraced, with a couple of fanatical adherents who followed him despite his rejection by the community ...

And the manner in which they expelled Schuckhardt was rather disgraceful in itself, but that's a separate issue.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 23, 2022, 06:08:41 AM
Someone (LoT) posited the notion that CMRI has no baggage.  Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the history of the CMRI knows that isn't true.

Only the CMRI devotees keep trying to pretend otherwise.  Baggage is a loose term, nothing with any kind of theological precision, but the VERY FACT that we're having this conversation IS in fact the baggage.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: angelusmaria on May 23, 2022, 07:03:32 AM
You've heard the answer several times already:  Schuckhardt.

CMRI devotees are simply in denial.  If the crimes of an organization's founder don't stain or taint the organization then nothing does.
Again, take a look at the Capuchins, whose founder was Ludovico, who apostatized.  Ochino is also credited as founder, who too went astray.  Then the chroniclers tried to pin the founding on Matteo da Bascia who left the order shortly after having been shoved into the office of Vicar General, an office he was wholly unfit for.
https://www.capdox.capuchin.org.au/studies/considerations-on-the-capuchin-charism/#post-425-_Toc508963791
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 23, 2022, 07:36:35 AM
Again, the fact that we're even having this discussion = baggage.  Some of your are just in denial.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Vanguard on May 23, 2022, 10:11:44 AM
While I don’t know much about Schuckart, the original founder who apparently was expelled and is dead, I will say that I think it’s pretty amazing that despite this fact and despite the fact that this world currently is in a downward path, that the CMRI is trying to go against the tide and is bringing the Mass and Catholic faith to many people who would otherwise be out of luck. 

The fact that St. Ignatius Loyola was the founder of the Jesuits doesn’t matter when the present day Jesuits are producing the likes of Jorge Bergolio and others of his ilk who are basically trashing the Catholic faith. 
The CMRI can’t change it’s past, but it can build a better future, if it remains faithful, to traditional Catholic principles and is resolute in it’s Catholic endeavors.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: 2Vermont on May 23, 2022, 05:44:14 PM
I don't understand why you equate having "baggage" with being "responsible" for it.  GV explained the different quite well.

Father Ripperger speaks of "generational (evil) spirits" that can stay with family line, and the abhorrent sins of Shuckhardt probably still haunt the CMRI.  They need to make a clean break from that guy.

Similarly, it's impossible for people to have any respect for CMRI because of Shuckhardt.
1.  I don't have an issue with your terminology.  Oftentimes people have "baggage", and that does not mean they are responsible for it. 

2.  Exactly what would constitutes a "clean break" for you?  And please don't say taking on a new name because that's just pathetic.  I think we all know that if the CMRI took on a new name, people would STILL bring up its beginnings before the name change.

3.  Don't speak for all people.  You may find it impossible to have any respect for the CMRI, but it's not impossible for people in general to have respect for the CMRI.  I think Bishop Pivarunas is doing an amazing job with the CMRI. It seems to me that he goes out of his way to stay above the fray and to not treat his clergy and religious in a cultish manner. 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 23, 2022, 06:31:40 PM
2.  Exactly what would constitutes a "clean break" for you?  And please don't say taking on a new name because that's just pathetic.  I think we all know that if the CMRI took on a new name, people would STILL bring up its beginnings before the name change.

New name and a new constitution would largely do it, although there was still a lingering doubt about the validity of the Holy Orders of Daniel Brown.  I don't buy the SSPV smear that he was an Old Catholic, since he did publicly abjure Old Catholicism.  But the Orders were certainly doubtful.  At some point, they were regularized by the +Thuc line bishops.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: bodeens on May 23, 2022, 07:10:22 PM
I think the baggage is whatever, anyone familiar with The Crisis knows that the jurisdictional situation is a mess too, and +Pivarunas doesn't pretend to be an ordinary Bishop in ordinary times, which is very helpful with all of the armchair theologians making dangerous speculative dogmatic statements. The "barebones necessities" mission of the CMRI is what we need right now. ALL of these orgs have skeletons in the closet. I am not expecting anything to be 100% clear cut and clean at this point or ever. I am just happy to have valid priests.

The great thing about the CMRI is that they are getting sacraments to people in remote locations and the priests are relentless in their Mass circuits and will drive to provide last sacraments, which you cannot say for other orgs necessarily. I think every trad group is loose on EENS but I will not hate on  priests that drive all of the way across America for a Mass circuit (Fr. Joseph Pham is doing WA -> Georgia right now and ofc everywhere in between). God bless these priests.

New name and a new constitution would largely do it, although there was still a lingering doubt about the validity of the Holy Orders of Daniel Brown.  I don't buy the SSPV smear that he was an Old Catholic, since he did publicly abjure Old Catholicism.  But the Orders were certainly doubtful.  At some point, they were regularized by the +Thuc line bishops.
Everyone has orders from +McKenna or +Pivarunas at this point.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Mark 79 on May 24, 2022, 10:11:18 AM
Vanguard:  I agree with your post.

(https://i.imgur.com/eve62ii.png)
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Ladislaus on May 24, 2022, 11:43:15 AM
Everyone has orders from +McKenna or +Pivarunas at this point.

+Musey was involved somehow, but I can't recall.  But, yes, I was just referring to what they should have done out of the gate.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Mithrandylan on May 24, 2022, 02:00:34 PM
New name and a new constitution would largely do it, although there was still a lingering doubt about the validity of the Holy Orders of Daniel Brown.  I don't buy the SSPV smear that he was an Old Catholic, since he did publicly abjure Old Catholicism.  But the Orders were certainly doubtful.  At some point, they were regularized by the +Thuc line bishops.
.
Bishop George Musey conditionally ordained all the men Schuckhardt ordained. Later, Bishop Carmona consecrated Bishop Pivarunas. 
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:10:33 AM
While there was a significant house-cleaning and notable improvement, the CMRI has baggage by the truckload.  See Bp. Schuckardt.
Are you saying the currently have baggage?  Do they treat (as a matter of official policy or not) their seminarians, parishioners and or children in school in a cultish or any other negative way?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:13:43 AM
Schuckhardt was expelled by the other clergy of the CMRI. I don't understand how the people currently in charge of the CMRI can be responsible for an evil that they actively drove out of their community.
Right.  I'm talking about currently.  This shouldn't be a feeneyite thing.  So, apart from that, (they don't err there) where do they err on any settled doctrines?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:15:35 AM
No, what you don't understand is that people can drive an evil out of their midst and yet still have baggage as a result of the intense, unsavory process.

Some have argued that they should have changed their name from CMRI, as Schuckardt was far from the only one who left and, what is more, he was the founder.  New name, fresh start; old name, no fresh start?

FWIW, I taught at the Mount and lived in the rectory (and also taught/lived at the minor seminary in ID, although briefly).  There's baggage.  There's also a lot of good.  Such is the case all throughout Traddieland.
How would their "baggage" compare with SSG and MHT?  And SSPV for that matter?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:25:01 AM
1.  I don't have an issue with your terminology.  Oftentimes people have "baggage", and that does not mean they are responsible for it.

2.  Exactly what would constitutes a "clean break" for you?  And please don't say taking on a new name because that's just pathetic.  I think we all know that if the CMRI took on a new name, people would STILL bring up its beginnings before the name change.

3.  Don't speak for all people.  You may find it impossible to have any respect for the CMRI, but it's not impossible for people in general to have respect for the CMRI.  I think Bishop Pivarunas is doing an amazing job with the CMRI. It seems to me that he goes out of his way to stay above the fray and to not treat his clergy and religious in a cultish manner.
I must agree with this statement.  My term "baggage" was perhaps a poor choice.  If they have done away with their baggage then what is the problem.  Gladius implies there is other baggage.  Perhaps I will change the term from "baggage" to "current negative issues".  I speak primarily about their dealings with the children in school, parishioners and seminarians. And perhaps more importantly than the latter two, what settled doctrine, if any, do they contradict?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:27:41 AM
.
Bishop George Musey conditionally ordained all the men Schuckhardt ordained. Later, Bishop Carmona consecrated Bishop Pivarunas.
Good information.  Thank you.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:46:07 AM
FWIW.  And it is worth alot for the children, I know for a fact that someone pulled recently enrolled their children in SGG and and after a short time pulled them out. I do not recommend that school to anyone. 

The idea that the world "Catholic" will be repugnant to children for the rest of their lives because of how they were treated, how the clergy in charge allowed them to be treated for over a decade, breaks my heart.  This is a very serious issue.  Woe to clergy who allow such scandal.  They will have much to answer for (rendering a more strict account than the laity).  People that try to correct them while they still have time do well and should not be castigated.

Scandalizing and all abuse of children, in a Catholic atmosphere is akin to abortion, but worse, it is tearing their souls apart in a location where they should be most safe.

I wish those who have encountered this, despite not being comfortable speaking about it, would do so, for the sake of the clergy and future children.  

Please let us pray for all Mothers, Fathers, single parents, children and clergy.  We all need it.  I believe the clergy and the children above all.  Clergy hold GOD in their hands everyday.  The reckoning they will have to endure due to the abuse of their positions should cause anyone who thinks of it to quake.  
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 08:49:36 AM
JOHN VIANNEY

John Mary Vianney, born of pious peasants in the village of Dardilly in the diocese of Lyons, gave many signs of holiness from his infancy. When, at the age of eight, he was taking care of the sheep, he would sometimes by word and example instruct little boys, kneeling before a statue of the Mother of God, in the use of the Rosary; and at other times, entrusting the flock to his sister or to another child, he was wont to seek out a more retired spot, that he might more readily devote himself to prayer before an image of the Virgin. Having a very great love for the poor, he would lead them in crowds to his father's house, and he took a delight in aiding them in every way. That he might be initiated into letters, he was sent to the parish priest of the village of Ecully; but as he was very slow to understand, he encountered almost unsurmountable difficulties in his studies. Fasting and praying, he entreated the divine assistance, and, with a view to begging for a facility in learning, he approached the tomb of St. Francis Regis, earnestly beseeching him for that gift. Having most laboriously passed through the course of theology, he was found to be sufficiently suitable to receive holy orders.

In the village of Ecully, under the guidance of the parish priest, whose assistant he had been appointed, he strove with all his strength to attain to the higher degrees of pastoral perfection. After three years had gone by, he was sent, like an Angel from heaven, to the small village of Ars, which not so long after was included in the diocese of Belley, and in a most brilliant manner he entirely renewed the condition of his neglected and forsaken parish. Continually engaged for many hours daily in hearing confessions and in giving spiritual direction, he introduced the frequent reception of the Eucharist, and organized pious sodalities: and in a remarkable manner he inspired into souls a tender devotion to the Immaculate Virgin. And, deeming that it is the duty of the pastor to expiate the sins of the flock accredited to him, he spared neither prayers, nor vigils, nor mortifications and continual fastings. Since Satan could not endure such great virtues in this man of God, he assailed him, first with mere annoyances, and afterwards in open combat; but John Mary patiently endured the most malevolent injuries.

He was very often asked by the neighbouring priests to labour for the salvation of souls after the manner of the Missionaries, either by preaching sermons, or by hearing confessions, and he was always at hand in every case. Burning with zeal for the glory of God, he brought it about, that the pious exercises of Missions were established in more than an hundred parishes arranged in a continuous and permanent series. Meanwhile, as God was rendering his servant famous by miracles and by graces, there began that celebrated pilgrimage, in which, throughout a period of twenty years, nearly one hundred thousand persons of every class flocked to Ars, not only from France and from Europe, but even from the distant regions of America. Worn out by labours rather than by old age, having foretold the day of his death, he went to rest in the embrace of the Lord, on the 4th day of August, in the year 1859, and of his age the seventy-third. After he became illustrious for many miracles, Pius X added him to the number of the Blessed, and Pius XI, in the holy year numbered him with the Saints in heaven and extended his feast to the universal Church, and on the fiftieth anniversary of his own priesthood, appointed him the heavenly patron of all parish priests. (Divine Office)

THE PENITENTIAL SERVANT

Our saint underwent much suffering.  Some of it was willfully inflicted by himself, some by the devil, some by good and some by evil men, and the most intense of all by God himself.  He removed all the bedding from his bed left only with a straw mattress which he covered with board that he slept on. He took out almost all the straw in his bed so it would be harder, and then burned it when some tried to put some back in secretly.  He often did altogether without his bed and slept on the floor with a stone for a pillow.  His favourite food consisted of some pieces of the coarsest black bread bought out of the basket of some poor man.  The Abbe Renard, in a memoir drawn up by him of the early days of the holy cure’s ministry, tells us that he had often witnessed the joy with which he ate this most distasteful food.  If he perceived the disgust which his companion felt at the sight of it, he would laugh and invite him to share his dinner, saying, “It is a blessing, dear friend, to be permitted to eat the bread of the poor; they are the Friends of Jesus Christ.  I feel as if I were sitting at His table.” He had so little provision for himself in the way of food that he would often go begging door to door for some.  A neighbor one day brought him a loaf of fine flour, which she had made on purpose for him.  She went back to fetch some milk; and believing that he had been long fasting, she wished him to eat the bread and milk in her presence.  No persuasions could induce him to consent.  At last an idea struck her, what would account for his pertinacious refusal. “I see, M. le Cure,” said she, “you have no bread left.”

True, indeed; a beggar had passed while she was gone, and the whole loaf of bread had been deposited in his wallet.  M. Vianney seemed determined, in those days, to try how long human nature could be supported without food.  He sometimes reduced himself to such a state of weakness, as to be obliged to lean against the forms or walls of the church for support.  When, after long days of fasting, he could hold out no longer, he would take a handful of flour, and, moistening it with a little water, make a few (matefaims) thin pancakes with it which served him for his single meal.  Three pancakes and a little water was enough for two or three days.  It has, in fact, be ascertained that the Cure of Ars often passed several days together without taking any nourishment whatever, when he desired to obtain some special grace for himself or his parishioners, to make reparation for some scandal which had wrung his heart, or to do penance for some grievous sinner, whom he judged too weak in courage, or in contrition, to perform it for himself.  When asked how a confessor was to act in order to exact due reparation for sin, and at the same time show necessary consideration for the weakness of sinners, he said, “I will tell you my recipe.  I give them a light penance, and do the rest in their place.”

He had his first confession at age 11 due to the French Revolution. First Communion probably in 1799.  He had difficulty learning because he began his studies late.  He was at a disadvantage from the start.  He was not brilliant but did not have a low I.Q.  He was simply at a disadvantage due to not being given adequate study at the proper age.  He also did not trust his own intelligence.  He thought himself stupid, due in part to his fellow seminary students calling him such. 

BATTLES WITH THE DEVIL

We will quote the Cure himself: “The first time the devil came to torment me was at about nine o’clock at night, just as I was going to bed.  Three great blows sounded on the outer door, as if some one were trying to break it open with an enormous club.  I immediately opened my window, and said, ‘Who is there?’ but I saw nothing.  So I went quietly to bed, recommending myself to God, the holy Virgin, and my good Angel.  I had not fallen asleep, when I was startled by three more strokes louder than the first, not on the outer door, but on that which opens upon the staircase leading to my room.  I arose and called out a second time, ‘Who is there?’  No one answered.  When the noise began, I thought it might proceed from robbers, who had been attracted by the valuable gifts of M. d’Ars, and therefore began to take precautions.  I got two courageous men to sleep in the house, in order to assist me in the case of necessity.  They came for several successive nights, heard the noise, but could discover nothing, and remained fully convinced that it had another source than the malice of men.  I was soon convinced of this myself; for one winter’s night, when a quantity of snow had fallen, I heard three tremendous blows in the middle of the night.  I sprang hastily from y bed, and ran down stairs into the court, thinking that this time I should catch the evil-doers, and intending to call for help.  But to my great astonishment I saw nothing, I heart nothing, and what is more, I saw not a race of footprints upon the snow. I had no longer a doubt that it was the devil who wanted to terrify me.  I resigned myself to the will of God, beseeching Him to be my guardian and defender, and to draw near to me with His holy angels whenever my enemy should return to torment me.” 

The persecutions of the devil went on for around 30 years.  The Cure was usually awakened at midnight by the three loud knocks which betokened the presence of his enemy.  After making a horrible noise on the staircase, the demon would enter the room, seize the curtains, and seem to be tearing them to pieces, so that the cure was astonished in the morning to see them uninjured.  Sometimes he pulled the chairs about, and disarranged all the furniture, as if he were hunting for something, calling at the same time in a tone of mockery, “Vianney, Vianney, thou eater of potatoes! we shall have thee yet! we shall have thee yet!  We have thee! we have thee!”  Once when our Saint was even more worn out than usual by the abuse from devils he said, “My God, I willing make Thee the sacrifice of a few hours of sleep for the conversion of sinners.”  The infernal flock instantly departed; there was silence; and he slept in peace.  He was several times thrown out of his bed by the devil. 

At a mission several priests mad fun of him for imagining that he was haunted.  The Cure went to bed rejoicing in the humiliation.  A few moments afterwards, those who had been so witty at his expense wished each other good night, and retired also to their respective apartments, with the happy indifference of philosophers, who, if they believed in the devil at all, had very little faith in his intermeddling with the affairs of the Cure of Ars.  But, behold! at midnight they are awakened by a most terrible commotion.  The presbytery is turned upside down, the doors slam, the windows rattle, the walls shake, and fearful cracks seem to betoken that they are about to fall prostrate.  Every one is out of bed in a moment.  They remember that the Cure of Ars had said, “You will not be astonished if you should happen to hear a noise tonight.”  They rush to his room; he was resting quietly.

“Get up!” they cry; “the presbytery is falling!”  “Oh, I know very well what it is,” replied he, smiling.  “Go you to your beds; there is nothing to fear.”  They were reassured, and the noise ceased.  An hour afterwards, when all was quiet, a gentle ring was heard at the door.  The Abbe Vianney rose, and found a man at the door, who had walked many miles in order to make his confession to him.  He went at once to the church, and remained there hearing the confessions of a great number of penitents, until it was time for Mass.  One of the missionaries, M. l’Abbe Chevalon, of pious memory, an old soldier of the Empire, was so struck by this strange adventure, that he said, when relating it, “I made a promise to our Lord never again to jest about these stories of apparitions and nightly disturbances; and as to the Cure of Ars, I take him to be a saint.

The coincidence of the occurrence of these noises with the arrival of the penitent from confession, is one instance out of many in which a more than usual manifestation of diabolical fury proved the presage of some more than common manifestation of the Divine mercy to sinners.  M. Vianney would often rise, after a harassed and sleepless night, to find strangers waiting at the door, who had travelled all night to make their confession.

The devil dragged him in his bed round the room.  He would cover a favourite picture of the Blessed Virgin, and an image of Saint Philomena, with mud and filth.  One more, instance from the author the Cure’s biography of the devil’s baffled malice is as follows:

“It was one morning during the first celebration of the Forty Hours Devotion at Ars.  The crowd was immense; the work of God in the souls of the worshippers was deeper and more striking than ever.  As I was setting out early to go to the Church, I was struck on the threshold by a smell of burning, so stifling and penetrating that I could hardly stand.  I hastily crossed the market-place.  Holy Mass, catechizing, and some few confessions kept me engaged till seven o’clock.  When I had finished, I found the whole village gathered round the presbytery.  I should have imagined that some misfortune had happened, had I not observed the general expression on the faces around me to be that of mirth.  They were laughing, joking, and calling to each other from one end of the square to the other; and the words bed and grappin were all that I could distinguish amid the clamor.  ‘What’s the matter?’ said I, approaching one of the groups.  ‘What! don’t you know that the devil set fire last night to M. le Cure’s bed?  Come and see, come and see!’  And I saw in fact some men carrying the half-burnt remains across the court.  I entered the house, and went straight to M. Vianney’s room, where I found every thing in disorder, and all the traces of a fire hardly yet extinguished.  The bed, the curtains, and all around it,—a few pictures, which owed their only value to the devotion of M. Vianney, and of which he had said a few days before that his good saints were the only things in the world to which he felt a little attachment, and that we would not consent to sell them, because he wished to leave them to the missionaries—all had been consumed.  The fire had stopped only at the casket which contained the relic of Saint Philomena; and its progress was arrested there, as if by a line drawn with geometrical precision, burning all which was on one side of the holy relic, and sparing all on the other.  It went out as it had been kindled, without any apparent cause; and what is most remarkable, and even it may be said miraculous, it was not communicated by the heavy serge curtains to the flooring, which, being black with age and smoke, would naturally have taken fire like so much dry straw.  Another remarkable circuмstance was, that M. le Cure, who came in the midst of all this disturbance and confusion, did not seem so much as to perceive it.  He met several persons carrying the remains of his furniture, without asking them a single question.  I found him in the sacristy; but when I addressed a few words to him on the event which had set the whole country in commotion, he shrugged his shoulders, and answered only by a gesture of indifference.  It was not till after holy Mass, when he was writing on the pictures for distribution, that he suddenly interrupted his employment.  I can see him now with his pen raised, his eyes, with their deep and sweet expression, fixed full on me.  ‘For a long time past,’ said he, ‘have I been asking this grace of the good God, and He has heard me at last.  Today I think I am really the poorest man in the parish.  They all have their beds—and now, thank God, I have none.’  And without another word he went on signing the pictures presented to him.  ‘Poor M. le Cure!’ said I, in a tone which he took for pity, but which expressed only admiration.  ‘Oh,’ replied he, ‘there is less evil in this than in the slightest venial sin.

HEALING OF SOULS

The throngs of penitents that pilgrimaged to the Cure for three decades was attributed to, as Catherine Lassagne states, “the prayers of M. le Cure for the conversion of sinners.  The grace which he obtained for them was so powerful that it went to seek them out, and would leave them no rest till it had brought them to his feet.  Grace was so powerful, that it went in search of sinners.”  Saint John was in his room about nine o’clock at night, when he was startled by a vigorous knocking at the door.  Upon opening it, he saw a great robust, and very determined-looking mand standing there, who thus addressed him: “Come to the church.  I want to make my confession.  I have made up my mind to do it, and that at once.”  The good cure, not without some lurking apprehension of robbery, took the sturdy penitent to the Church.  He was a wagoner, and had left his wagon and horses at the Church-gate.  He made his confession, and before he departed, he thrust a pair of worsted stockings into M. Vianney’s hand saying: “Sir, you have got a bad cold; put these on your feet as quick as you can.”  It was calculated that more than 20,000 persons visited Ars in the course of each year.  M. Vianney soon arrived at that state to which Saint Philip Neri bound himself by vow—never to have an hour or a moment to himself.  From the year 1835 he was dispensed by Monsignor Devie from the usual pastoral retreat.  “You have no need of a retreat,” said the Bishop; “and there are souls at Ars which have need of you.”  By 1848 the number of pilgrims to Ars by the omnibuses alone, which connected the village with the Saone river, amounted to the incredible number of 80,00 in the course of the year.  Our saint cured the bodily ailments of many but as we know his focus was on their souls. Seeing the misery of the countless souls the paraded through Ars for heeling led Saint John to say “We must come to Ars, to know what sin is, and to see what evil Adam has done to his poor family.  We know not what to do; we can but weep and pray.”  The pilgrims were admitted to the confessional, each in turn, but the Cure, by a supernatural light would sometimes call those who were most in need out of the crowd to confess first.

Aman relates his experience when he showed up for confession before the break of day in the hope of seeing the Cure without much delay.  He stood in line and asked “How long have you been her?  “Since two o’clock in the morning.” And when did M le Cure come?  “He came at midnight.”  Where is he? what is he doing now?”  “He is down there in the confessional, behind the choir, hearing the women’s confessions.  This is what he generally does on Friday mornings; he will not hear the men until after Mass.”  What, then, are all these whom I see doing?  “They are keeping their places, that each me get in in his turn.”  When did they come?  “When the cure himself came in, they were waiting at the door, the first comer holding the handle.  At midnight the Church was opened, and they took their places.”  Yes, from midnight to 8 PM he would hear confessions.  Such, for thirty years, without change or relaxation, was the life of the Cure of Ars.  “People tell me,” said a man of the world, “of marvelous things which go on at Ars.  I doubt not the power of God; it is as great in this nineteenth century as in the first days of Christianity.  I am convinced that the prayers of the holy priest, whom men go there to see, can obtain surprising and even miraculous cures; but to recognize the presence of the supernatural there, I have no need of all this.  The great miracle of Ars is the laborious and penitential life of its cure.  That a man can do what he does, and do it every day, without growing weary or sinking under it, is what surpasses my comprehension; this is to me the miracle of miracles.”

HEALING OF BODIES

One of the directresses of the Providence was dying of malignant fever, accompanied by delirium.  The physicians had given her up.  She had lost both sight and hearing.  It was thought that she could not live out the day.  This was on a Saturday.  When she seemed to be actually in her agony, the prayers were read for the recommendation of the soul; she was quite unconscious of it.  But suddenly she opened her eyes, and said, “I am cured!”  The blessed candle was still burning beside her.  She asked, “What is that candle for?”  She was told that M. le Cure had just been saying the last prayers for her soul.  She wished to rise, which she did with the help of her companion, and continued sitting up for a moment, feeling no remains of illness.  The doctor was sent for, who found no vestige of fever left, and could hardly believe his eyes.  He declared it to be a miracle.  M. le Cure had said the evening before, “I have almost scolded Saint Philomena; I have been tempted to reproach her with the chapel built in her honour;” by which we saw that he had prayed for this cure.  One of us, continues she, gave a poor woman an old cap of M. le Cure’s.  She put it upon her child, who had a wound in his head, thinking to herself as she did so, “The Cure of Ars is a saint; if I had faith, my child would be cured.”  In the evening, when she was going to dress the abscess as usual, she found that it had disappeared, and the wound was perfectly dry.  He cured the child of a poor man who was a cripple on the condition he go to confession and had true sorrow for his sins and a firm purpose of amendment.  He cured a crippled child of a soldier who had lost his wife.  He cured another child of a poor woman who waited at his confessional for twenty-four hours.  The child asked his mother for shoes because the Cure told he would be cured tomorrow, and he was.  A young man persistently would ask the Cure if he could leave his crutches there.  Finally on the feast of the Assumption, he asked yet again to which the Cure responded, “Well, my friend, yes,” “if you have faith.”  At that moment he was cured and embraced the religious life.

Besides, and above all these testimonies, the series of which is far from being exhausted, the mighty voice of public opinion proclaimed aloud the existence of a superhuman power at Ars, manifesting itself in these prodigies.  For the last thirty years thousands of sufferers have come yearly to Ars, with a confidence which has never failed, and which has often been richly rewarded.  All, indeed, did not find the health they sought; but all, according to the measure of their faith, received the graces of fortitude and resignation, a more Christian view of suffering, and a clearer insight into the privileges attached to it.  No one that we have known went away without a blessing.  The Cure of Ars received all with kindness; he consoled and encouraged them, and gave them the best part of his time, his counsels, and his prayers.  But he was far from promising a cure to all.  We have often spoken to him of one tried by long and intense suffering, borne with angelic sweetness and piety, and for whom we could never obtain any answer but this, “It is a cross well placed.”  “But she suffers so intensely; is there no hope of relief?”  “Yes, my friend, in heaven.”  This was his usual answer, when questioned about a sick person whom he knew he was not to cure.  “Patience; there will be no more suffering in Paradise.”  There is now [at the time this book was authored] at Ars a poor man who waits, like the paralytic in the Gospel, for his cure.  He spends his life in quarrelling with Saint Philomena, and making it up again, according as his soul ascends or descends in the scale of resignation.  On the whole, however, he is a model of conformity to the will of God, and a rare example of the power of faith to sweeten and render endurable the bitterest trials.  This good man has always been, and still is, convinced that M. Vianney wanted but the will to cure him; “his humility,” he used to say,” spoils his charity.”  M. Vianney often went to see him on his poor bed.  He exhorted him, cheered him, made him laugh; for poor Michel was always ready to laugh; but he never gave him the faintest hope of recovery.  On the contrary, when spoken to of the hopes and desires of his obstinate client, he always said, “He does not want his legs to go to heaven.  He will go there without them, and perhaps he would not have got there without them.”

The Cure of Ars gave up his holy sol to God in the arms of the faithful companions of his labours, and some of his tried and dearest friends.  The news spread rapidly through the village and neighborhood, but at first was hardly credited.  It seemed impossible to that faithful and loving people that such a misfortune could have befallen them.  He had been so near death before, and restored to them by a miracle, and by a continued miracle had he been preserved to them ever since.  His life for thirty or forty years would have been death to any other man.  And he was so much wanted!  What was to become of that innumerable concourse of pilgrims, sick in body or in soul, who hung upon his lips?  Had his hand been indeed lifted up for the last time in benediction?  “We had cradled ourselves,” says M. Monnin, “in these hopes; we had rested on the thought that he was still to be left for a long time to us.  We could not imagine Ars without its cure; its church always open and always full; its midnight Angelus; its closely besieged confessional; its Saint, who was the sun of that privileged corner of the earth, who gave it its life, and filled its atmosphere with the odour of his virtues.  And he was no more!  He had blessed us for the last time; he had bidden us his last farewell; and that sacred bond between our souls and God, that golden link between us and all the mysterious glories of the communion of Saints was broken. 

The Cure of Ars was dead!  That life of devotion and prayer, of charity and patience, of humility and sacrifice, was over: he had fought the good fight; he had finished his course; he had received his crown.  At last the toil-worn labourer of the Lord was at rest.  As the words, Depart, Christian soul, were uttered, he entered into the joy of his Lord.

Most holy Cure de Ars, please pray for all clergy and their parishioners.

https://ia902707.us.archive.org/29/items/lifecurdarsstjb00monngoog/lifecurdarsstjb00monngoog.pdf (https://ia902707.us.archive.org/29/items/lifecurdarsstjb00monngoog/lifecurdarsstjb00monngoog.pdf) (The above, mostly quoted verbatim is taken from the above link)


Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: epiphany on May 25, 2022, 01:09:52 PM
FWIW.  And it is worth alot for the children, I know for a fact that someone pulled recently enrolled their children in SGG and and after a short time pulled them out. I do not recommend that school to anyone.

The idea that the world "Catholic" will be repugnant to children for the rest of their lives because of how they were treated, how the clergy in charge allowed them to be treated for over a decade, breaks my heart.  This is a very serious issue.  Woe to clergy who allow such scandal.  They will have much to answer for (rendering a more strict account than the laity).  People that try to correct them while they still have time do well and should not be castigated.

Scandalizing and all abuse of children, in a Catholic atmosphere is akin to abortion, but worse, it is tearing their souls apart in a location where they should be most safe.

I wish those who have encountered this, despite not being comfortable speaking about it, would do so, for the sake of the clergy and future children. 

Please let us pray for all Mothers, Fathers, single parents, children and clergy.  We all need it.  I believe the clergy and the children above all.  Clergy hold GOD in their hands everyday.  The reckoning they will have to endure due to the abuse of their positions should cause anyone who thinks of it to quake. 
Agreed.
I am now 100% against all Catholic schools.
Homeschooling is the ONLY way to go.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 02:49:30 PM
Agreed.
I am now 100% against all Catholic schools.
Homeschooling is the ONLY way to go.
That is the conclusion I have come to as well.  Also because some "traditional" Catholic parents do not raise their children so well; which results in the children being a negative influence on one another.  Also the corruption in this world is so deep, up and down, in and out, the plants, the people trying to destroy from within, etc.  The entire world is extremely dangers for innocent souls trying to keep that innocence in it.  I believe I have been successful with my children, largely because of no TV and all homeschooling.  And no outside influence including secular reading materials of any sort.   
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on May 25, 2022, 02:50:26 PM
Agreed.
I am now 100% against all Catholic schools.
Homeschooling is the ONLY way to go.
I'm sorry, I gave you a thumbs down when I intended to press the thumbs up and it will not let me change it.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: epiphany on May 30, 2022, 11:16:19 AM
I'm sorry, I gave you a thumbs down when I intended to press the thumbs up and it will not let me change it.
It's o.k.  seems others made the same mistake. ;)
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 30, 2022, 03:29:23 PM
That is the conclusion I have come to as well.  Also because some "traditional" Catholic parents do not raise their children so well; which results in the children being a negative influence on one another.

If you only believe in homeschooling children, then what is your interest in the school at SGG and why are you asking for information on it? :laugh1:
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: epiphany on May 30, 2022, 05:13:02 PM
If you only believe in homeschooling children, then what is your interest in the school at SGG and why are you asking for information on it? :laugh1:
If I might be interested in possibly trying st. Mary's again, I would ask if fr. Duverger is still in charge....
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Yeti on May 30, 2022, 07:23:02 PM
If I might be interested in possibly trying st. Mary's again, I would ask if fr. Duverger is still in charge....
I addressed my question to Lover of Truth, who started this thread. He strongly agreed with your statement that he is against all Catholic schools, and homeschooling is the only way to go. So your hypothetical question does not apply to LoT, which made me wonder why he is asking about SGG school.

It would be like me asking how well a Tesla drives, and then saying on the next page that I would never dream of buying a Tesla.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: epiphany on May 31, 2022, 01:08:18 PM
I addressed my question to Lover of Truth, who started this thread. He strongly agreed with your statement that he is against all Catholic schools, and homeschooling is the only way to go. So your hypothetical question does not apply to LoT, which made me wonder why he is asking about SGG school.

It would be like me asking how well a Tesla drives, and then saying on the next page that I would never dream of buying a Tesla.
Well, I didn't ask a question, but my comment still stands:
"If I might be interested in possibly trying St. Mary's again, I would ask if fr. Duverger is still in charge...."

Homeschooling is HARD.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: songbird on May 31, 2022, 08:45:23 PM
How many children do you have?  We home schooled with"Seton".  We did fine. Year round schooling is best.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: epiphany on May 31, 2022, 10:54:02 PM
How many children do you have?  We home schooled with"Seton".  We did fine. Year round schooling is best.
How long have you been (or did you) homeschool?
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: SimpleMan on May 31, 2022, 11:31:32 PM
How many children do you have?  We home schooled with"Seton".  We did fine. Year round schooling is best.

Whatever your children respond best to, is the bottom line, but we take a summer break, usually part of July, and all of August and September, nine to ten weeks in all.  I'm of the philosophy that children and teens need that summer off, back in my day, summer vacation was basically Memorial Day to Labor Day, but the educational establishment has gradually whittled away at that, making vacation from early in June to mid-August.  We basically follow the older pattern, but bumped up a month, both for climate reasons (Southeastern US) and because vacation hotel rates go down after the first of September.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: epiphany on May 31, 2022, 11:52:31 PM
Whatever your children respond best to, is the bottom line, but we take a summer break, usually part of July, and all of August and September, nine to ten weeks in all.  I'm of the philosophy that children and teens need that summer off, back in my day, summer vacation was basically Memorial Day to Labor Day, but the educational establishment has gradually whittled away at that, making vacation from early in June to mid-August.  We basically follow the older pattern, but bumped up a month, both for climate reasons (Southeastern US) and because vacation hotel rates go down after the first of September.
Public schools where I live get mid may to early sept off.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: moneil on June 01, 2022, 12:22:07 AM
Public schools where I live get mid may to early sept off.
Interesting.  In Washington State my local school district (I'm on the agricultural advisory committee, all high schools with vocational programs must have an advisory committee of persons who work in the industry) began the current academic year on August 31, 2021 and it will end on June 13, 2022.  Some students will be in summer school, others may take advantage of "running start" eligibility and take classes at the community college, and others may start a skilled trades apprenticeship  during the summer.  Students in vocational agriculture programs will work with their crop or livestock projects or find jobs in some aspect of agriculture so they can meet their SAE (Supervised Agricultural Experience) requirement.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: Lover of Truth on June 01, 2022, 03:31:53 AM
If you only believe in homeschooling children, then what is your interest in the school at SGG and why are you asking for information on it? :laugh1:
I have an interest in all souls, especially those in the care of SV priests.  They all need to be held accountable.  The good ones also deserve more compliments than they get I imagine and more financial donations.  They all desperately need our prayers.  I'm hoping I have less to rail about in the SV circle than I would in the R and R and certainly the NO.  I still don't understand why pretending evil things don't happen, with the result they continue to happen, is the better way to go.  As I mentioned, this same plan did not have a good result when we did this in the 50's and 60's.  Our priests need to be held accountable along with our prayers (and if they are not involved in serious scandals) support.  
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: SimpleMan on June 01, 2022, 09:44:17 AM
Interesting.  In Washington State my local school district (I'm on the agricultural advisory committee, all high schools with vocational programs must have an advisory committee of persons who work in the industry) began the current academic year on August 31, 2021 and it will end on June 13, 2022.  Some students will be in summer school, others may take advantage of "running start" eligibility and take classes at the community college, and others may start a skilled trades apprenticeship  during the summer.  Students in vocational agriculture programs will work with their crop or livestock projects or find jobs in some aspect of agriculture so they can meet their SAE (Supervised Agricultural Experience) requirement.

This may be a regional thing.  In our area, the public schools run from mid-August to the first week (or thereabouts) in June.  The Newchurch schools follow a similar pattern.  For several decades, the educationists have been lobbying to reduce the summer break to as little as six weeks, under the rubric of "we now have air conditioning and can run year-round", as well as the argument --- not totally without merit --- that pupils forget too much, if they're off for three months. 

Call me dated, or looking back fondly at a "Leave It to Beaver" existence, but the traditional summer vacation, Memorial Day to Labor Day, was pretty sweet --- think of lightning bugs in jars, kick-the-can in the alley behind the house, camping out under the stars, lazy summer days, fresh air and sunshine.  That's something kids shouldn't have to have interrupted by year-round school. 

And there is also the pressure to keep busy and keep learning even during the summer months, lists of books to read, projects to have ready the first day of school, and even "strongly recommended" summer "enrichment" programs.  Horrible.  I suspect a lot of this is due to politically-correct "no child left behind" efforts, where everyone has to suffer to keep anyone from being able to say that this demographic or that one got short-changed.  Another factor may be the phenomenon of both parents working, and it's handier to be able to drop the kids off at school, than to have to make summer care arrangements.  When one parent stays home, this isn't an issue.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: moneil on June 01, 2022, 10:53:09 AM
@SimpleMan, I was responding mostly to reply #75 about a school year schedule much shorter than most places.  The schedule here in Washington is about what you have in your area, with a week or two difference.  I think WA school days are a period longer than in some other places.

When I was in the Peace Corps in Colombia their school year was year around with quarterly 3-week breaks.  In the US our education schedule mostly developed back when a majority of the population was engaged in agriculture and kids were needed in the summer to work on the farms.  Spring break coincided with planting season.  Today less than 3% of the population works in production agriculture but the tradition of schools being closed during the summer has lingered on.
Title: Re: SSG School
Post by: songbird on June 01, 2022, 03:29:01 PM
We home schooled 3, ages K, 4th and7th grades from 1992-2008 about. We used Seton and I partly worked mornings from6 -9 and 2-4 afternoons.  As long as the kids could read, they read in each subject what they were to do. Seton has it set up what is to be done each day in each subject.