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Quote from: Caminus

Please explain to me how it is that you think a man could have no love of God in his heart (the virtue of charity) and yet still be considered a "member" of the Church, but a man that has no faith in his intellect (the virtue of faith) cannot be considered a member.  Upon what basis are you making this distinction?    

If I read you correctly, I don't disagree. Except you are speaking of an occult heretic lacking internal bonds yet retaining the external bond. Nobody else is speaking of occult heretics. A "bad Catholic" is not a heretic of any sort. They are both members according to MC.

Okay, fair enough.  I press the external bond requirement because it is absolutely necessary to maintain in catholic ecclesiology.  This is a juridical, external union.  That is why many catholic theologians hold that occult heretics, true heretics, but not publicly manifested in opposition to authority, retain membership.  Too many traditional catholics tend towards "spiritualizing" the Church because they do not firmly grasp the external bond requirement.  It's a bare minimum, a net that catches both the good and the bad, morally and intellectually.  

From canon law and the very nature of the Church as a visible society that is governed by authority.  

Quote from: Caminus

From canon law and the very nature of the Church as a visible society that is governed by authority.  

Okay, you made it up then.

The problem is your confusion about occult heretics. An occult heretic is a hidden heretic, either kept in his heart or kept hidden by hypocrisy. It is NOT an open heretic who has yet to be brought to trial by ecclesiastical authority.

What is the rationale of admonishment from authority?  Is it not only to correct the errant, but to manifest obstinancy in public as well?  In in reality, you just made up the last part of your post.  How do you know that a heretic isn't "occult"?  Where is your line of demarcation?  Public knowledge is only half of the equation.  Opposition to authority is as necessary to the equation than anything else.  In fact, even if no other Catholic knew of the presence of a heretic and nevertheless was obstinate against authority, that man would then be considered a formal heretic and excommunicated as such.  Thus the primary consideration is the relation to public authority.  You are nullifying that to your own confusion.  Besides, who exactly are you refering to?  We were making general statements about a diocese.  Are you implying that we ought to sever the entire thing?  Upon what grounds?  The fact that you are disgusted that these criminals are still considered members of the Church.  And round and round we go.