Author Topic: Michael Voris banned from liberal diocese.... (Read 9938 times)

Caminus · « **Reply #35 on:** April 14, 2011, 02:27:51 PM »

Thanks for supporting my case.

Caminus · « **Reply #36 on:** April 14, 2011, 02:32:05 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Caminus
How do you know that a heretic isn't "occult"?

Because you can only know what is external. You can "know" about a specific occult heretic, because his heresy is hidden.

Maybe somebody else can help you understand this.

Spare me the condescension. You evaded the entire point and just made this last point up on your own. The fact of the matter is that you haven't a leg to stand on by restricting occult to mean absolutely secret. Check any canonist you wish, they will contradict you at every turn.

What? :confused1: The definition of "occult" as used here is "hidden". You're saying that "You haven't a leg to stand on by restricting words to their definitions." Occult heresy is, by definition, hidden.

"Hidden" or "occult" in the context of the public jurisprudence of the Church carries with it an entirely different connation. The text cited proves the fact by asserting that purely internal acts cannot by definition be punished. SJB has failed to properly understand both the import of the term "occult" as well as the intervention of authority. On the one hand, the crime must be public, on the other hand, in the case of determing pertinacity which is a key ingredient of formality, the public manifestation of this comes by way of opposition to authority. Thus, the heresy is perfected so to speak and the criminal is entirely cut off from the society of the Church.

Caminus · « **Reply #37 on:** April 14, 2011, 02:35:11 PM »

Consequently, when a good Pope begins to reign and exercise authority and condemning false doctrine, we will see either of two things, those who hold positions of authority will either formalize their heresy and publicly oppose authority or they will submit restoring peace to the Church. I suspect that after that time, the Catholic Church, complete with its juridical structure, will be much smaller after the pruning.

SJB · « **Reply #38 on:** April 14, 2011, 03:31:18 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Caminus
How do you know that a heretic isn't "occult"?

Because you can only know what is external. You can "know" about a specific occult heretic, because his heresy is hidden.

Maybe somebody else can help you understand this.

Spare me the condescension. You evaded the entire point and just made this last point up on your own. The fact of the matter is that you haven't a leg to stand on by restricting occult to mean absolutely secret. Check any canonist you wish, they will contradict you at every turn.

What? :confused1: The definition of "occult" as used here is "hidden". You're saying that "You haven't a leg to stand on by restricting words to their definitions." Occult heresy is, by definition, hidden.

"Hidden" or "occult" in the context of the public jurisprudence of the Church carries with it an entirely different connation. The text cited proves the fact by asserting that purely internal acts cannot by definition be punished. SJB has failed to properly understand both the import of the term "occult" as well as the intervention of authority. On the one hand, the crime must be public, on the other hand, in the case of determing pertinacity which is a key ingredient of formality, the public manifestation of this comes by way of opposition to authority. Thus, the heresy is perfected so to speak and the criminal is entirely cut off from the society of the Church.

Why don't you quote something then? What do you think "the context" of Bouscaren and Ellis is??? Shall I quote Woywod as well?

Caminus · « **Reply #39 on:** April 14, 2011, 03:34:13 PM »

Indeed, please do. He will also demonstrate the absurdity of defining "occult" as absolutely secret. Please also cite their commentaries on how the Church deals with those who begin to profess heretical doctrines.