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Author Topic: How Would You Answer This Woman?  (Read 1857 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

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How Would You Answer This Woman?
« on: April 27, 2023, 04:18:57 PM »
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    • So I'm in an online discussion with a lady about how the Catechism/Lumen Gentium declares that we worship the same god as Muslims.  Here is what she said:

    "Of course we worship the same God as the Muslims! They just don't worship Him in His fullness that is the Trinity. There's only One God so as long as you worship God and not Satan you are still worshipping God, even as imperfect as that understanding may be. Your responsibility as a Catholic is always to construe the Catechism in the way the Church construes it, not in the way YOU construe, lest you be in error."

    How would you respond to her?
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #1 on: April 27, 2023, 04:29:28 PM »
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    • I would question her about God. Does she/muslims believe that Jesus is God. Muslims don't believe Jesus is God, hence they do not know God, so how can they believe in Whom they don't know. It defies reason.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #2 on: April 27, 2023, 04:31:58 PM »
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    • This belief is used as a pretext for anti-evangelism. I think it's mostly an abuse of words to claim that Muslims worship the same God as Christians. In whatever extraordinarily limited sense in which it might be true to say they worship the same God, the degree to which they fail in recognizing essential 'features' of God's identity is catastrophic. In failing to know He is a Trinity, and especially that Jesus Christ is the second Person of the Trinity, they abandon all access to the One Church God founded, to the sacraments distributed within that Church, to the delightful truths and moral teachings espoused by it and enjoyed by true Christians throughout time and space, and so on. Being able to claim in a limited sense they worship the 'same' God does not make up for that. 
    .
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #3 on: April 27, 2023, 04:32:06 PM »
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    • No, God being Holy Trinity is not merely His "fullness" but it's of His essence (loosely speaking, since God just has existence of course).  Our Lord taught quite clearly that "No man cometh to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6)

    You can say that there's a God, but unless you worship the objectively True God, as He has revealed Himself, you're not worshipping God as He is but rather your concept of God, which could be a figment of your imagination.

    This Vatican II speak about "fullness" (cf. my criticism of +Fellay's 95% comment) has done tremendous damage.

    Let's take this analogy.  I'm in love with some celebrity, say, some movie star.  But this love is based on my conception of her based on the characters I've seen her play in the movies.  But when I actually get to know the REAL person, as she is, I find that she's insufferable.  And she's not even particularly attractive once she loses the movie makeup.  So, did I really love this celebrity?  No.  I loved some figment of my imagination and some fictional portrayal.  Same thing with God.  They worship their CONCEPT of God, which is deeply flawed, but they do not worship the True God, as He is, as He has revealed Himself to us.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #4 on: April 27, 2023, 04:39:37 PM »
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    • No, Catholics don’t worship the same God as moslems. 


    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John 3:16-18). 

    This is the true teaching of the Catholic Church.   

    Many are being deceived by Satan including this woman.  

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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #5 on: April 27, 2023, 06:43:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 27, 2023, 04:32:06 PM
    No, God being Holy Trinity is not merely His "fullness" but it's of His essence (loosely speaking, since God just has existence of course).  Our Lord taught quite clearly that "No man cometh to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6)

    You can say that there's a God, but unless you worship the objectively True God, as He has revealed Himself, you're not worshipping God as He is but rather your concept of God, which could be a figment of your imagination.

    This Vatican II speak about "fullness" (cf. my criticism of +Fellay's 95% comment) has done tremendous damage.

    Let's take this analogy.  I'm in love with some celebrity, say, some movie star.  But this love is based on my conception of her based on the characters I've seen her play in the movies.  But when I actually get to know the REAL person, as she is, I find that she's insufferable.  And she's not even particularly attractive once she loses the movie makeup.  So, did I really love this celebrity?  No.  I loved some figment of my imagination and some fictional portrayal.  Same thing with God.  They worship their CONCEPT of God, which is deeply flawed, but they do not worship the True God, as He is, as He has revealed Himself to us.
    Great post. Just to add on

    Who ever denies the Son before men, the Son will deny before His Father.

    Muslims don't even believe that Christ died...
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #6 on: April 27, 2023, 07:13:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on April 27, 2023, 06:43:09 PM
    Great post. Just to add on

    Who ever denies the Son before men, the Son will deny before His Father.

    Muslims don't even believe that Christ died...
    Muslims are hypocrites. They claim Christ is the greatest prophet, yet they don't believe in what Christ said and instead follow mohammet.

    Christ said that the Father has given judgement to the Son, yet they deny that Christ will be the judge.

    Christ said He must die, yet they deny His death.

    Christ said there is no marriage in heaven, yet they believe in this 72 virgins nonsense. As if God would allow fornication or lust in heaven...

    Christ hinted multiple times that He was God "before Abraham, I AM". Yet they deny His divinity.

    Also I recall (dont have quotes) that the quran mentions that allah is the greatest of deceivers and also it condemns the one called the King of Kings.
    Also that muslims must accept the 'mark' on their forehead when a certain someone arrives...
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #7 on: April 28, 2023, 01:39:59 AM »
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    • That Muslims don't even think we do. Islam has two major concepts that would make the idea of the Trinity in Islam fundamentally incompatible: Tawhid and shirk. 

    Tawhid is monotheism and shirk is polytheism. Allah in the Quran is described as "having no equals". A Three in One Godhead to a Muslim is as polytheist to them as devotion to statues of Ganesha and Krishna on the streets of Varanasi. If it is a foreign entity to them, how could they be also worshipping the same God as Christians? It makes no sense.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #8 on: April 28, 2023, 09:26:23 AM »
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    • Muslims believe in a syncretic hodgepodge of demons that they call "god".  This is easily researched.

    "07 Is Allah the same God? - "I will fill hell with demons and mankind... ye cannot escape Allah... Allah leads wrongdoers into error... it is He who is deceiving them... He is the fount of fear... " The Star and the Crescent, Who is Allah, God or Satan?"

    The Holy Trinity is indivisible. You cannot separate out worship to each specific Person.. You cannot deny one while worshipping the other. We worship one God in the mystery of the Trinity.
    Jews do not worship the true god- who do the orthodox jews worship? They worship demons as well.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #9 on: April 28, 2023, 09:45:01 AM »
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    • They would agree that we do not. Most Orthodox Jєωs won't step inside churches because of the Trinity
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    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #10 on: April 28, 2023, 10:25:06 AM »
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    • Hey Miser,  I seem to recall a website (I thought it was called defeatmodernism.com) that used to have quotes from saints and popes regarding Islam/Muslims/Mohammed, but I can't find it.  Search/Google for these quotes.  It is clear from them that what the Church taught pre-Vatican II was very different.  
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #11 on: April 28, 2023, 02:21:50 PM »
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    • The reason Muslims seek to eliminate Christians is that they wrongly believe that our belief in the Trinity means that we are polytheistic.

    Muslims worship Allah, a demon who appeared to Mohammad (like Jospeph Smith and his Maroni).

    They are lost and doomed to everlasting hell. We must pray for their conversion.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #12 on: April 28, 2023, 02:55:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on April 27, 2023, 04:18:57 PM
    So I'm in an online discussion with a lady about how the Catechism/Lumen Gentium declares that we worship the same god as Muslims.  Here is what she said:

    "Of course we worship the same God as the Muslims! They just don't worship Him in His fullness that is the Trinity. There's only One God so as long as you worship God and not Satan you are still worshipping God, even as imperfect as that understanding may be. Your responsibility as a Catholic is always to construe the Catechism in the way the Church construes it, not in the way YOU construe, lest you be in error."

    How would you respond to her?
    What idiocy!

    1 is not the "fullness" of 3. Plain and simply 1 ≠ 3… period!

    Why aren't there thousands of persons in God?  If 3 is "fullness," then 1,000 is even more "fullness."
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    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #13 on: April 28, 2023, 07:24:48 PM »
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    • Thanks for the great insights, everyone!  Very helpful.

    Unfortunately, they can't seem to get past the notion that since it is in the New (and improved) Catechism it is "magisterial" and so it must be true.   smh

    I tried to explain that Allah is not Jesus' Father.

    They said the Magisterium has declared that He is and I am being prideful and need to repent for not obeying the Magisterium.

    I tried to explain how many thousands of martyrs died at the hand of Muslims because they refused to believe such a thing.

    Reply:  They believed things differently back then and things have changed now with a different understanding.  smh

    I explained that it is a denial of the First Commandment.

    They said that it's the Magisterium who interprets the Scripture and I must listen to them.

    Sigh.

    Well, I just said they should pray and ask the Blessed Trinity and all the Holy Saints and Martyrs who refused to believe such a thing to show them the truth.

    Also suggested checking out a Catechism from before VII but I don't think that will help because they are convinced that the present Magisterium and their teachings trumps all of that.

    They are convinced that I am in schism from the true Church and need to repent and go back.

    sigh...Chrislam  







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    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



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    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: How Would You Answer This Woman?
    « Reply #14 on: April 28, 2023, 07:37:44 PM »
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    • Yeah....New Religionists.  Dust off.
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