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Author Topic: Dating outside the resistance  (Read 108313 times)

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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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Re: Dating outside the resistance
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 06:11:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Yesterday at 06:09:29 AM
    Salvation is our #1 job.  Work on that and all is well.

    This thread is not about salvation broadly.
    It is about dating.

    However St. Paul does say women save their souls through childbearing. So there's that.
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    Offline Justinian

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 06:12:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Yesterday at 05:40:10 AM
    Simple solution: don't get married.  Become a religious or stay single and live a good and holy life. Problem solved.
    The single life isn’t suitable for everyone. We need people to get married and have families!! As someone earlier said, don’t worry about statistics or the general state of men/wonen. Pray for a holy spouse but also go out and meet people. God helps those who help themselves. 
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    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 06:20:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Justinian on Yesterday at 06:12:06 AM
    The single life isn’t suitable for everyone. We need people to get married and have families!! As someone earlier said, don’t worry about statistics or the general state of men/wonen. Pray for a holy spouse but also go out and meet people. God helps those who help themselves.

    100 percent correct.

    Adding to this, I feel like these discussions mesh men and women together. But they are on completely different timelines. Feminism has infected our ranks within the remnant, and it is the most perverse kind.  If there is one thing the feminist-infected-trad mind hates it's drawing these lines and making these distinctions.

    Just look at how easy it is to get a conversation going on this web forum by making a single remark which was pretty standard thinking for 2000 years but suddenly you get the middle-aged-unhappy-in-their marriage women getting so annoyed and lambasting you with all kinds of insults.

    Spiritual advice is linked so much to our nature. Our nature helps us discern what the will of God is for us in our lives. If we get that wrong, then we give terrible spiritual advice.

    Both men and women need to just trust God. But when it comes to making decisions, the advice is very different. Much more time sensitive for women, and more broad for men.
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 06:25:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 06:11:02 AM
    This thread is not about salvation broadly.
    It is about dating.

    However St. Paul does say women save their souls through childbearing. So there's that.
    Right.
    Simple solution: don't get married (the "end" of dating is marriage).
    Become a religious or stay single and live a good and holy life. Problem solved.

    Your reference to St. Paul:"...if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety."

    It's not the childbearing that will save her...
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    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 06:27:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Yesterday at 06:25:52 AM
    Right.
    Simple solution: don't get married (the "end" of dating is marriage).
    Become a religious or stay single and live a good and holy life. Problem solved.

    Your reference to St. Paul:"...if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety."

    It's not the childbearing that will save her...


    That could be said of so many other things also. I feel like you have missed the point I was making. St. Paul said what he said. It is indeed childbearing that saves her. Though ALL our actions have to be done with ALL the theological virtues, and the moral virtues.

    But you're gonna do with your life what you want.
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 06:29:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Justinian on Yesterday at 06:12:06 AM
    The single life isn’t suitable for everyone. We need people to get married and have families!! 
    What a way to go! 
    (with everyone in religious orders or living a single holy life)
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 06:32:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 06:27:50 AM

    That could be said of so many other things also. I feel like you have missed the point I was making. St. Paul said what he said. It is indeed childbearing that saves her. Though ALL our actions have to be done with ALL the theological virtues, and the moral virtues.

    But you're gonna do with your life what you want.
    1 Timothy 2:"14 14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. 15 Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety."

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    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 06:37:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Yesterday at 06:32:35 AM
    1 Timothy 2:"14 14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. 15 Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety."

    It's not the childbearing that will save her.  It's the faith, love and sanctification.

    You are arguing like a protestant. Please stop.

    Re read what I said in response to you.

    I will add to what I said (to the more discerning and intelligent minds) by saying that this obviously does not mean that women who do not bear children cannot be saved. Rather they save themselves through spiritual childbearing (mothering). This would be the true Catholic interpretation of things, and I'm sure its in some commentary by the fathers on this text somewhere.
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 06:51:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 06:37:08 AM
    You are arguing like a protestant. Please stop.

    Re read what I said in response to you.

    I will add to what I said (to the more discerning and intelligent minds) by saying that this obviously does not mean that women who do not bear children cannot be saved. Rather they save themselves through spiritual childbearing (mothering). This would be the true Catholic interpretation of things, and I'm sure its in some commentary by the fathers on this text somewhere.
    I think the confusion here is the word "saved".
    St. Paul is referring to a woman being saved from seduction through childbearing, not saving her soul through childbearing.  The second half of verse 15 refers to how she can save her soul (what i was referring to).
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    Offline Justinian

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 06:54:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 06:37:08 AM
    You are arguing like a protestant. Please stop.

    Re read what I said in response to you.

    I will add to what I said (to the more discerning and intelligent minds) by saying that this obviously does not mean that women who do not bear children cannot be saved. Rather they save themselves through spiritual childbearing (mothering). This would be the true Catholic interpretation of things, and I'm sure its in some commentary by the fathers on this text somewhere.
    Yes I think women in general do Gods will and save themselves in some kind of maternal capacity. Obviously they don’t actually have to bear physical children, but teaching, nursing, adoption, nuns who are spiritual mothers etc… There will be exceptions like St Joan of Arc. Out of my female friends, the ones who are happiest are expressing the maternal instinct in some way in their lives. The most unhappy are not. 
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    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 07:26:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Yesterday at 06:51:00 AM
    I think the confusion here is the word "saved".
    St. Paul is referring to a woman being saved from seduction through childbearing, not saving her soul through childbearing.  The second half of verse 15 refers to how she can save her soul (what i was referring to).

    Mental gymnastics. It says what it says. Let he who has ears, hear.
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 08:05:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 07:26:10 AM
    Mental gymnastics. It says what it says. Let he who has ears, hear.
    This is one problem with Catholics: we like to toss bible verses around without understanding them, especially in a "true Catholic interpretation".

    We have ears to hear and eyes to see, but understanding is the key.

    You are not beyond learning.  Neither am I, and I am OLD.

    Back to dating in the resistance....  no dating, no marriage.  Go into orders or remain a single holy Catholic, is my suggestion.  
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    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 08:22:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Yesterday at 08:05:25 AM
    This is one problem with Catholics: we like to toss bible verses around without understanding them, especially in a "true Catholic interpretation".

    We have ears to hear and eyes to see, but understanding is the key.

    You are not beyond learning.  Neither am I, and I am OLD.

    Back to dating in the resistance....  no dating, no marriage.  Go into orders or remain a single holy Catholic, is my suggestion. 


    Something my mother told me when I was young and it stuck with me as I continued through life and enjoyed philosophy, it was this:

    "Age does not necessary mean wisdom."
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #43 on: Yesterday at 08:37:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 08:22:09 AM

    Something my mother told me when I was young and it stuck with me as I continued through life and enjoyed philosophy, it was this:

    "Age does not necessary mean wisdom."
    :laugh1::laugh2::popcorn:
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Dating outside the resistance
    « Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 08:47:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 06:11:02 AM
    This thread is not about salvation broadly.
    It is about dating.

    However St. Paul does say women save their souls through childbearing. So there's that.
    "For the Apostle says that a woman does better if she does not marry." - St. Thomas Aquinas on 1 Timothy 2

    Gregory of nαzιanzus interpreted the "childbearing" in 1 Timothy 2:15 in a spiritualized or allegoric sense, referring to the bearing of spiritual fruit, rather than physical motherhood being the literal means of a woman's personal salvation. 

    This approach was common among many early Church Fathers (including Gregory of Nyssa and Origen) who shared Gregory's ascetic sensibilities and were anxious about the literal interpretation of the passage, which seemed to conflict with the high value they placed on virginity and celibacy as a superior spiritual path. 

    In other words, it's not the childbearing that will save her soul.
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