Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: A feminist is...  (Read 57107 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: A feminist is...
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2026, 11:56:21 AM »
I was thanked profusely after and that was the second women I did that for.  A man even saw me do it and thanked me. I felt her embarrassment and reacted accordingly.

I am sorry to say, but I think because you are a man you think you understand something you really don't. 

The question is will you humbly study the subject better or will you continue to think that men do all things better than women?
Well if you saw other cues to think she was embarrassed you didn't say that, as it's written sorry but it came across as textbook projection. To me it's like if someone corrected my latin at Mass because they thought I was embarrassed by it, I would thank them but they've projected a worry they have onto me.

For the record I assume that you saw other cues like fidgeting or her expressions so she probably *was* embarrassed and you did a good thing, but you did hand me a good example on a platter so I used it. Though even then, many false positives with that approach. For example, if I was grieving my grandma and an helpful lady at church assumed that my unhappiness and stress was because I don't like my borrowed missal that'd be the cherry on top.

I actually think that real empathy is rare with men too, men are very far from a paragon of empathy and do these same projections and sympathy, what I'm pushing back is against labeling women's lazy egocentric projection and poor emotional regulation as the marks of their "much higher feminine empathy".

Re: A feminist is...
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2026, 12:32:20 PM »
Well if you saw other cues to think she was embarrassed you didn't say that, as it's written sorry but it came across as textbook projection. To me it's like if someone corrected my latin at Mass because they thought I was embarrassed by it, I would thank them but they've projected a worry they have onto me.

For the record I assume that you saw other cues like fidgeting or her expressions so she probably *was* embarrassed and you did a good thing, but you did hand me a good example on a platter so I used it. Though even then, many false positives with that approach. For example, if I was grieving my grandma and an helpful lady at church assumed that my unhappiness and stress was because I don't like my borrowed missal that'd be the cherry on top.

I actually think that real empathy is rare with men too, men are very far from a paragon of empathy and do these same projections and sympathy, what I'm pushing back is against labeling women's lazy egocentric projection and poor emotional regulation as the marks of their "much higher feminine empathy".
And if you wanna see another case of false positives being harmful, tell me if this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time: imagine Justinian's church friends meet her ballet-practicing daughters, after a few meetings one of them, who verily hates ballet and is heavily projecting, says to her with total earnesty: "Hey, your little daughter N., I see her and I empathize with her and I can just tell the ballet is messing with her and her self-image" and it could be hallucinated or have nothing to do with it, and everything to do with teenagehood.

And same thing with any such social policing.

You'll see that most men don't tend to bring up some sort of nebulous secret intuition to socially police you, they'll just tell you things and arguments, and those range from true to nonsense, but they aren't "I just get the distinct feeling that you're wrong and it's hurting you"


Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: A feminist is...
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2026, 12:38:05 PM »
Quote

What I see is that women take in much more information (facial expressions, tone, subtext, etc.) which men generally ignore and don't really use
. But it's a mistake to consider that higher social intelligence, it's like having an alarm system that trips at every cat, falling leaf or gust of wind, it's useless.

Furthermore, men tend to be much more lenient when a guy is awkward or breaches etiquette (i.e cuts his toenails in the living room or tells an awkward joke), they generally assume good will, tell him and won't really care. I think women take it much worse they see in it stuff that isn't there.


Empathy is based on the information in bold above.  Women do this all the time.  If they have good will they are helpful.  If they are bad will then they are manipulative.

With the bold you kind of proved my point.  You said men don't care about those things, but those are the things that help women understand people better.

Feelings are an intuitive thing. Do you agree with that?

Are women more intuitive?  Are they better ar reading social cues?  

Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: A feminist is...
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2026, 12:44:30 PM »
And if you wanna see another case of false positives being harmful, tell me if this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time: imagine Justinian's church friends meet her ballet-practicing daughters, after a few meetings one of them, who verily hates ballet and is heavily projecting, says to her with total earnesty: "Hey, your little daughter N., I see her and I empathize with her and I can just tell the ballet is messing with her and her self-image" and it could be hallucinated or have nothing to do with it, and everything to do with teenagehood.

And same thing with any such social policing.

You'll see that most men don't tend to bring up some sort of nebulous secret intuition to socially police you, they'll just tell you things and arguments, and those range from true to nonsense, but they aren't "I just get the distinct feeling that you're wrong and it's hurting you"
I am not sure how you are coming up with these scenarios for women.  I think you are just projecting how you think things happen.  Intuition is an internal process that is hard to put into words.  

Lets try something have you ever felt something you couldn't name? Or explain in words?

Re: A feminist is...
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2026, 12:50:52 PM »

Empathy is based on the information in bold above.  Women do this all the time.  If they have good will they are helpful.  If they are bad will then they are manipulative.

I disagree with this, empathy is putting yourself in another person's shoes, so for example reading specific facial expressions as indicative of sadness is unrelated to empathy.

With the bold you kind of proved my point.  You said men don't care about those things, but those are the things that help women understand people better.

I don't think so, men are worse at recognizing someone's emotional state than women, but if what women do with that information is project their own self into them instead of trying to understand what would make that specific person sad and what would help them, then who's understanding people better?

I think whether you can read cues and whether you're empathic are unrelated phenomena

Feelings are an intuitive thing. Do you agree with that?

If you mean that recognizing whether someone is sad or elated or worried is not something you have to really think about, you just perceive, yes.

Are women more intuitive?  Are they better ar reading social cues? 

 In that sense, yes and yes