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Author Topic: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism  (Read 1529 times)

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Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2026, 02:18:13 PM »
Not sure if speaking to I but give answer. Most catholic interest in occult have see on internet not so much in person. though is occult shop near where live. may visit just to see.

For self example have recent look at tarot. I not know much of tarot. think it something gypsy women do to tell future. Somewhere see claim that tarot best use is to use to understand self better. to understand different psychological archetype that make up human mind. Think it interesting idea. not know if it true but am looking to see. In any way find it more interesting and probably more important than argue about clothing or find new thing to call sin. Is why I think maybe is more important to young people as LightOfBethlehem3 say. Think some people tire of shallow answer. tire of silly faith like politic party or sport team. my side total correct. you side total wrong. Maybe they make bad mistake but what is better offer? listen to other lay people who have many problem? listen to priest and bishop who have many problem? Is like say in other thread. internet advice like drunk asking other drunk how to be no alcoholic. at least occult drunk maybe more interesting.

ESL lvl. 99 fren but I think I understand haha :^)

Tarot is the perfect example. There is a world of difference between

1. Trying to forecast the future through pulling cards and interpreting them (what gypsy women do), something against the first commandment that greatly offends God
and
2. Looking at the so-called Major Arcana, which are from the early 15th century, as the archetypes that they are. How is it fundamentally different to learn about and ponder what the things in the medieval image of "The Fool" mean and what the archetype means (St. Paul talks about holy foolishness, St. Francis of Assisi was a Holy Fool, etc.) than reading Virgil or Aesop and pondering it and baptizing it?

I think it's uncharitable to hear the word Tarot and inmediately think "Oh, ok so he's an occultist like Doctor Faustus". Many orthodox medieval authors wrote about the spiritual meaning of the different constellations, were they occultists because superstitious horoscopes exist?

I think my main point is that the Re-Enchantment movement exists for a reason, people thirst for the enchanted, meaning-filled and "storied" world which existed for centuries upon centuries. Modern Traditionalist Catholicism often doesn't deliver when it very well could since it's a fully Catholic worldview.

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Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2026, 02:29:12 PM »
So, if these people use tarot cards, but not to tell the future, then what do they use them for?


Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2026, 03:08:31 PM »
ESL lvl. 99 fren but I think I understand haha :^)

Tarot is the perfect example. There is a world of difference between

1. Trying to forecast the future through pulling cards and interpreting them (what gypsy women do), something against the first commandment that greatly offends God
and
2. Looking at the so-called Major Arcana, which are from the early 15th century, as the archetypes that they are. How is it fundamentally different to learn about and ponder what the things in the medieval image of "The Fool" mean and what the archetype means (St. Paul talks about holy foolishness, St. Francis of Assisi was a Holy Fool, etc.) than reading Virgil or Aesop and pondering it and baptizing it?

I think it's uncharitable to hear the word Tarot and inmediately think "Oh, ok so he's an occultist like Doctor Faustus". Many orthodox medieval authors wrote about the spiritual meaning of the different constellations, were they occultists because superstitious horoscopes exist?

I think my main point is that the Re-Enchantment movement exists for a reason, people thirst for the enchanted, meaning-filled and "storied" world which existed for centuries upon centuries. Modern Traditionalist Catholicism often doesn't deliver when it very well could since it's a fully Catholic worldview.
Thank you. Is good explanation. especially underline. Like word Re-Enchantment movement. Do you have link to article or book or video so can learn more?

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2026, 03:18:18 PM »
.

This very long article didn't really explain what the errors are that these people promote.

Can anyone explain what Morello and these other people say that is objectionable, and preferably do so using only commonly-understood English words (there seems to be a serious jargon problem in the way these people talk, mostly borrowing from Greek and using words like "theurgy" or "egregore". I need someone to explain this to me like I'm five.)
Sorry everyone if I'm bumping this thread too much I'm passionate about the topic :P

I started writing a point by point response but realized the article is very long. In short I think the objections are very weak. They boil down to

1. Misunderstanding terminology and the worldview of these people. It's Christian Neo-Platonism. They use words in analogous and broad senses. Liturgy is like magic because it actually does what it says, it's not a theater play it's a true re-presentation. It is analogous to the spells we see in movies where a guy says "Glasses be repaired" and the glasses are repaired.

He mentions this a bunch, the Coloumbe FAQ is actually a great simple explanation for what these people are talking about https://www.tumblarhouse.com/blogs/news/ultra-realism-faq

2. Having a problem with these authors quoting or printing esoteric non-Catholic authors: he ridicules the idea but doesn't really explain why exactly this is different from Christians quoting the pagans for millenia and Bp. Williamson doing a talk on the Unabomber manifesto. "All truth is God's truth" after all. 

There are some valid criticisms: Coloumbe's divination if real is obviously horrible, they should put up more disclaimers that this is only for well-formed Catholics, etc. but I don't think it's some occult infiltration, it's a Christian Neo-Platonic infiltration, which is what St. Augustine and St. Bonaventure were.

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2026, 03:28:08 PM »
So, if these people use tarot cards, but not to tell the future, then what do they use them for?
As a famous medieval collection of archetypes and illustrations to ponder on or write about.