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Author Topic: Marriage, divorce, and human nature  (Read 3448 times)

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Marriage, divorce, and human nature
« on: April 07, 2024, 10:33:30 PM »
Same old news, but it just gets so upsetting to me inside that the institution of marriage is so disrespected by modern man today. This was already going on even before Amoris laetitia, but many cannot even be told they are committing adultery without taking or thinking about seriously what they have done by thinking they are validly marrying another person when they are not. 

The issue cannot even be brought up at all or rarely if at all. I remember I brought it up a few years as a general topic at a dinner outing after Saturday Mass, and some I could tell did not like it since they were in those kinds of situations (although with annulment probably received from the Novus Ordo) I found out at that time.

I had gathered from one pre-1968 ordained priest several years ago (God rest his soul and that of his fellow member of his order) that many have the minds of children or seven or ten year-olds (something like that) and could not actually decide well and maturely when getting married "for the first time." How can that be measured or determined though? It has to be assumed that most were aware of what marriage entailed and that it is intended till death. Intention has to be strictly disproven, but if there is no actual authority in Rome right now, it seems that cannot even be tried, although I wonder if supplied jurisdiction can actually enter the picture as practiced by the SSPX today. 

Openness to children is a whole other topic, of course, but there is that too. The promotion of the habitual usage of the rhythm method or natural family planning or advice given to delay childbearing in whatever way is a contraceptive mentality in spite of no usage of artificial means. 

Offline Matthew

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Re: Marriage, divorce, and human nature
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2024, 10:38:20 PM »
I had gathered from one pre-1968 ordained priest several years ago (God rest his soul and that of his fellow member of his order) that many have the minds of children or seven or ten year-olds (something like that) and could not actually decide well and maturely when getting married "for the first time." How can that be measured or determined though? It has to be assumed that most were aware of what marriage entailed and that it is intended till death. Intention has to be strictly disproven, but if there is no actual authority in Rome right now, it seems that cannot even be tried, although I wonder if supplied jurisdiction can actually enter the picture as practiced by the SSPX today.

The Church used to do marriage prep PRECISELY in order to preclude any "mulligan" or "get out of jail free" card later -- a.k.a. an annulment.
If the priest makes sure you're sane, not being forced by anyone to enter this marriage, and tells you what marriage entails -- it's hard to claim ignorance later.

And although "marriage for life" and being stuck single if your spouse leaves you is a hard lot for some, I praise God and His Holy Church for wanting what is best for us. I don't think people realize how bad it is, even in this life, when you have "ex wives" and "ex husbands" walking around. I couldn't imagine knowing more than one living person carnally. That would be so weird. And especially awkward if they were still around, for example at childrens' birthday parties and what not.

As Our Lord said, "from the beginning it was not so." Matthew 19:8

I've seen divorces up close and personal, in my extended family and my wife's family. And often the ex-wife is "friendly" with the new wife. Insane! Imagine being some kind of twisted "sister wives", both having full carnal knowledge of the same guy -- sitting across from them both. That is so unnatural and bizarre.

Yes, the Church is wise and good to "spoil our fun" and forbid us divorce in all cases.

P.S. And yes, many individuals know very well what they're doing. They can fool the Church, their priest, the marriage tribunal. Know who they can't fool? God. They will answer to God, and they know it. So it instinctively bothers them whenever the topic comes up.


Re: Marriage, divorce, and human nature
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2024, 11:08:14 PM »
Young people need counseling.  If you are not ready for marriage and its responsibilities, do not court, date, or keep company with those of the opposite sex.  If that means never marrying or delaying it until late in life, so be it.  What good is it to marry young, have lots of children, only to have them grow up in a broken or dysfunctional home?  I know there are exceptions, but one shouldn’t depend upon that. 
If you’ve explored a religious vocation and found, for women especially, no suitable foundation, then go for “single in the world.”  If what the Church normally teaches is best is not available, realize these aren’t normal times.  Take what’s second, third, fourth, or not normally considered appropriate, so long as it’s not sinful, and save your soul in that.  One of my friend’s daughters tried the sisterhood twice and neither worked out.  She took three years of coursework at community college while looking actively for a spouse. Nothing came of that, either.  (Except she can advise other women as to red flags!)  She’s since acquired a health condition that seriously affects her ability to have children.  She moved in with her aunt and uncle who have a ranch type farm and run a commercial rifle range.  Turns out she’s an excellent shot. She’s also become interested and knowledgeable about antique firearms, collecting, researching their history, and restoring then.  
She’s now living in a rustic style home built on a portion of her uncle's land. She owns the home, the land, three horses, runs the range, and goes to gun shows, lectures at universities, gun clubs, and participates in various reenactments across the US and Canada.  
It’s not at all what she or her parents envisioned for her as a teen and young adult. She still keeps the traditional faith despite the disapproval of a fair number of people at her chapel.  

Offline Vanguard

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Re: Marriage, divorce, and human nature
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2024, 08:03:17 AM »
I think the problem lies with being open to having as many children as God sends during the marriage. While I know people should have faith, I have seen families without sufficient income to afford such large families - such as living in cars and hotel rooms. It isn't conducive to great family life. Many times the children do not remain Catholic, and divorce is an outcome. You need a lot of money to raise children today. I don't know what the answer is, but I would agree with Seraphina that counseling prior to marriage is a good idea.

Offline Soubirous

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Re: Marriage, divorce, and human nature
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2024, 09:53:34 AM »
This topic meshes with some mulling that came to mind a few days ago.

There is a point to this, please bear with me.

Being springtime, I was looking for information about poke salat. (IYKYK.) That led to the old song Poke Salat Annie, and its lyrics about a poor mean switchblade-carrying woman and her good-for-nothing menfolk and her momma on a chain gang. That led to various covers of this song, which led to Elvis, which led to the proliferation of various forms of music and entertainment inescapable from around the early 60s onwards.

There have always been Poke Salat Annies going back to before the days of Noah; such women and their menfolk warranted the destruction of the Flood. The trouble in recent decades is the unrelenting and purposeful effort (again, IYKYK) to unsettle the old understandings of right and wrong, especially among women. Elvis, Tom Jones, the Beatles, the British rockers, the Doors, all the way to Guns n Roses and whatever the latest iteration is of all this spawn.

Women see it and decide that too much is never enough. A small number begin to ask why they can't do the same as these strutting men, and we now see the so-called weaker sex debase herself publicly in every possible manner. And we see the majority of men toss their own restraint away too. This becomes the societal default, and folks who call it out for what it is are labeled as unhealthy, rigid, and repressed. How not, if the accepted norm is to do what thou wilt. As with the originator of that slogan, it is less about mindless pleasure-seeking and more about willful insubordination.

Was a time when sinners acknowledged their sinfulness even if they didn't intend to change their ways. Now very few people even concede the definition of sin and if they do, they gleefully wallow in it.

Fatima? "They will come for the family." Marriage is the first bulwark for them to destroy.