Author Topic: The heresy of Lumen Gentium: Subsistit in (Read 30388 times)

JPaul · « **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:38:48 PM »

Quote from: ajpirc

Quote from: J.Paul
Quote from: ajpirc
Quote from: ajpirc
Quote from: J.Paul
...there is no partial or imperfect communion with the Church...

This is also what confuses me. One enters the Church through Baptism, correct? Though a Protestant is outside of the Church, correct? How can a Protestant be baptized (enter into the Church), but still be outside of the Church?

I read on CAF earlier that Protestants are Catholics that don't know it and reject the Faith:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=577765 (2nd post)

Could I get an answer for this, please?

Sorry, I didn't see the question. Yes, anyone can do a valid baptism if he uses the proper form, water, and intends to do what the Church does. And such a child would be a Catholic until the age of reason, when he chooses to remain in the Church or leave for a sect etc.

The sacrament of Baptism is a Catholic sacrament. That is to say, that it belongs to, and is the property of the true Church.

When it is used illicitly outside of the Catholic Church it is valid but unlawful.
It is the Catholic sacrament abused by heretics. On the other hand if an adult is Baptized into an heretical sect then the Baptism is invalid as that is against the will of the Church and means that the intention was not to do as the Church does. Hence the person remains outside of the Church.

The use of the true Catholic sacrament obviously Baptizes one (an infant) into the Catholic Faith. That is what they are speaking to.

This was what I was thinking. Even though one is baptized doesn't mean they are always and forever in Christ's true Church. Once someone is baptized, they enter into the Catholic Church; at the time that they profess heresy as true faith, they leave the Church. Would this be correct?

You've got it now! From Leo XIII canonizing the words of St Cyprian in the unity of the Church:

The Church of Christ, therefore, is one and the same for ever; those who leave it depart from the will and command of Christ, the Lord - leaving the path of salvation they enter on that of perdition. "Whosoever is separated from the Church is united to an adulteress. He has cut himself off from the promises of the Church, and he who leaves the Church of Christ cannot arrive at the rewards of Christ....He who observes not this unity observes not the law of God, holds not the faith of the Father and the Son, clings not to life and salvation" (S. Cyprianus, De Cath. Eccl. Unitate, n. 6).

That is the lot of the sects, and not the blather which Lumen Gentium proposes about "separated brethren".

JMJ

ajpirc · « **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:36:32 PM »

Thank you, J.Paul

ajpirc · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2011, 10:34:03 AM »

To my understanding, Catholics are the only people inside the Church. I have been confused for many months because those on CAF say all who have been baptized are inside the Church. Of course they have fallen for Lumen Gentium's heresies. They even say that everybody is somehow in the Church. Probably because of their "invincible ignorance" and that they have been baptized by their desire. I know this is part of that Modernist/Protestant doctrine of universal salvation.

But, is it true that only Catholics are inside the Church (not including CINO)? Is Fr. Feeney's teaching that one must be Catholic to attain salvation correct?

Exilenomore · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2011, 11:41:07 AM »

One can be part of the Church by desire, but one must do everything possible to enter into her external communion. Leonard Feeney erred when he attempted to make God a prisoner of His own sacraments, and therefore his errors were condemned by the infallible Apostolic See. He started out by opposing the errors of universalism which later became accepted by 'Vatican II'. And those errors must indeed be opposed. But he went too far when he started to reject baptism of desire, which is a true teaching of the Church.

ajpirc · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2011, 12:01:49 PM »

Could you clarify?