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Author Topic: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests  (Read 13966 times)

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Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
« Reply #110 on: May 30, 2023, 02:42:21 PM »
Dear SimpleMan,

You are missing quite a lot here!  It is called "God's grace upon a soul"!  After many prayers and deeds in this family's life, when it got down to the reality of the gravity of possible death, a Catholic daughter gave her mother and father the best gift she could give to them---true sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church through a true priest of the Roman Catholic Church.  I pray that I will be blessed in that most important way when that time comes for me and my family members. 

Perhaps you have never personally been in the situation of a dear family member's imminent death.  Perhaps all of your family routinely receives the sacraments from a priest ordained by a bishop who definitely, without any positive doubt, has been consecrated in the Latin rite of the Roman Catholic Church and is in the line of Apostolic Succession.  I sincerely hope that is the case.  Please have some compassion for those of us who are not in that situation.  Snarky comments about a person "with a weak grasp of sacramental theology" do not contribute to such a serious matter.

Remember, it is all about the salvation of souls.
I have indeed been in that situation, with my father.  For several reasons, he was unable to receive Extreme Unction.  He would have had no issue whatsoever with receiving from a traditional priest, in fact, he was basically a sedevacantist, though he didn't have the theological underpinnings to be able to construct an argument for it, he just said "that man's no Pope".

The comment wasn't snarky.  I was simply referring to the fact that people who are uneducated in the Faith, or who simply can't understand certain distinctions, would not understand the difference between liciety and validity, would never have heard of ecclesia supplet, and would uninformedly reason something like "Vatican II changed all that stuff, and it's not supposed to be in Latin anymore (Latin versus vernacular is all that many people understand), that priest is using old prayers that aren't valid anymore", not understanding the difference between liciety and validity, nor understanding what makes a sacrament valid or invalid.  They could further reason that "schismatic [sic] confessions aren't valid, and neither are schismatic [sic] Last Rites", or WRT the Eucharist, "the Church doesn't allow the old Mass anymore, least of all celebrated by schismatics [again, sic], so that means it's not a valid Mass".  If pressed to say "do you mean it's not the Body and Blood of Christ", they might well respond "I dunno, I just know it's not a valid Mass, those guys aren't Catholics".  Not everyone knows what "valid" means WRT sacraments.

Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
« Reply #111 on: May 30, 2023, 02:43:50 PM »
He wasn't being snarky; you missed his point.
Thank you, please see my previous post.


Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
« Reply #112 on: May 30, 2023, 03:01:34 PM »
But at that point, why should it matter to a Novus Ordo adherent whether a priest offers traditional sacraments or post-Vatican II sacraments?  So far as I am aware, nobody in the Novus Ordo questions the validity or the efficacy of sacraments conferred in the old rites.  The only problem they would have, is with questions as to whether the priest has faculties or not, and in danger of death, even a Novus Ordo adherent should acknowledge that the church supplies faculties regardless.  Is there something I’m missing here?

On the other hand, I suppose it is possible that someone with a weak grasp of sacramental theology could think, oh, no, they’re not supposed to be doing it that way anymore, it’s not legitimate, and could conflate that with sacramental invalidity.

Traditional vs. post-VII is one thing, but individual NOM priests tend to be laxer about adhering even to those already-weakened rules as to sacramental form and matter, and not just with regard to Last Rites.

As to that "weak grasp of", (not snark, all good) yes, laity should try to understand sacramental theology as best they can, but it's up to the priest to get it right. A family member shouldn't have to stand there and witness something slipshod and then worry about it after it's too late.

Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
« Reply #113 on: May 30, 2023, 04:37:56 PM »
I have indeed been in that situation, with my father.  For several reasons, he was unable to receive Extreme Unction.  He would have had no issue whatsoever with receiving from a traditional priest, in fact, he was basically a sedevacantist, though he didn't have the theological underpinnings to be able to construct an argument for it, he just said "that man's no Pope".

The comment wasn't snarky.  I was simply referring to the fact that people who are uneducated in the Faith, or who simply can't understand certain distinctions, would not understand the difference between liciety and validity, would never have heard of ecclesia supplet, and would uninformedly reason something like "Vatican II changed all that stuff, and it's not supposed to be in Latin anymore (Latin versus vernacular is all that many people understand), that priest is using old prayers that aren't valid anymore", not understanding the difference between liciety and validity, nor understanding what makes a sacrament valid or invalid.  They could further reason that "schismatic [sic] confessions aren't valid, and neither are schismatic [sic] Last Rites", or WRT the Eucharist, "the Church doesn't allow the old Mass anymore, least of all celebrated by schismatics [again, sic], so that means it's not a valid Mass".  If pressed to say "do you mean it's not the Body and Blood of Christ", they might well respond "I dunno, I just know it's not a valid Mass, those guys aren't Catholics".  Not everyone knows what "valid" means WRT sacraments.
Dear SimpleMan,
I am truly sorry about your father.  Please accept my apology for misinterpreting your comments in regards to the father of AMDGJMJ.

Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
« Reply #114 on: May 30, 2023, 05:38:47 PM »
Dear SimpleMan,
I am truly sorry about your father.  Please accept my apology for misinterpreting your comments in regards to the father of AMDGJMJ.
It's all good.  In dealing with the pandemic theological ignorance among everyday Catholics nowadays, it is entirely possible for someone with knowledge unintentionally to come across as elitist or snobbish.