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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 23237 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2023, 12:25:02 PM »

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A water outside the highest stars serves no purpose,
In your limited knowledge.



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so is a meaningless addition to God's creation.
Right.  God creates meaningless things.  :facepalm:
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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2023, 12:30:16 PM »
Quote from: cassini on July 17, 2023, 12:05:01 PM
6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.  7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.  8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

The Douay Rheims bible then adds:

[6] "A firmament": By this name is here understood the whole space between the earth, and the highest stars. The lower part of which divideth the waters that are upon the earth, from those that are above in the clouds.

I disagree. It makes more sense to me to consider the firmament is the created oxygen filled space surrounding the Earth. It lies between the waters of the oceans on Earth and the clouds (waters) over this special space that life depends on. Both these waters are visible to man. A water outside the highest stars serves no purpose, cannot be seen so is a meaningless addition to God's creation. The oxygen firmament also infers that no other moon or planet made viable to Earth by God has such a 'firmament,' that is, a special creation in itself. Outside my interpretation of firmament we know is different. It has no life sustaining oxygen which makes the Air filled firmament a special creation by God around the Earth, worthy of His isolating it in His Creation revelation. As for 'heaven,' well that is covered by any interpretation of the firmament, it remains up there in the sky no matter how far that is.

Anyway, both meanings are attributed to God's Creation unlike the atheist Dawkins.

‘Q: “Do you think science will ever discover evidence to substantiate Catholic dogma like transubstantiation or the Ascension?”
Richard Dawkins A: “No, of course not. Where would the body of Christ go if it ascended? No one believes that heaven is up there, so how could it ascend?”’ (R. Dawkins; quoted in Dan Burstein & Arne de Keijzer’s Secrets of Angels & Demons; p.192.)

What is your proof that the firmament is merely oxygen filled space?

 "St. Augustine said the word firmament was used 'to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassable boundary between the waters above and the waters below' (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61)." - p. 236"



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Offline cassini

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2023, 12:37:50 PM »
Quote from: Tradman on July 17, 2023, 09:34:37 AM

Have you done this experiment? You assume stars are millions of miles away because NASA tells you that.  Not only is their massive lie proven wrong by videos like this, many other people have discovered the same thing and shared it everywhere. I've seen many of these by various individuals before they were taken down by Youtube and other gatekeepers. Stars are not worlds, they are lights. And they are not too far away to video. Stars are relatively small lights just above us in the firmament. I've personally taken videos like this with my P900 and posted them.  Ignoring or denying the results of honest experiments to see if NASA is telling the truth and even that prove NASA is lying, isn't going to help anyone. 

In Genesis 22:17 and Hebrews 11:12, we find a comparison between the number of stars in the sky with the finite numbers of grains of sand by the seashore.

‘For which cause there sprung even from one (and him as good as dead) as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.’--- Douay Rheims, Epistle of St Paul to the Hebrews, 11:12.

First I agree, stars are light generating bodies created by God. 
If Tradman, I gave you a cup of sand/stars, how big would that cup have to be? Now imagine the number of grains of sand by the sea shore and imagine the size of the universe needed to house them all? How far away would the furthest out be? Such a contrast teaches us the omnipotence of God by star numbers and indeed by the space needed to accommodate these created bodies; as such numbers would need a universe of immeasurable distances for so many. In his book City of God (Vol. 1, Ch.23), St Augustine addressed this very revelation:

‘But as for their numbers, who sees not that the sands do far exceed the stars? Herein you may say they are not comparable in that they are both innumerable. For we cannot think that one can see all the stars, but the more earnestly he beholds them the more he sees: so that we may well suppose that there are some that deceive the sharpest eyes, besides those that arise in other horizons out of sight.’
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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2023, 01:21:14 PM »
Quote from: cassini on July 17, 2023, 12:37:50 PM
In Genesis 22:17 and Hebrews 11:12, we find a comparison between the number of stars in the sky with the finite numbers of grains of sand by the seashore.

‘For which cause there sprung even from one (and him as good as dead) as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.’--- Douay Rheims, Epistle of St Paul to the Hebrews, 11:12.

First I agree, stars are light generating bodies created by God.
If Tradman, I gave you a cup of sand/stars, how big would that cup have to be? Now imagine the number of grains of sand by the sea shore and imagine the size of the universe needed to house them all? How far away would the furthest out be? Such a contrast teaches us the omnipotence of God by star numbers and indeed by the space needed to accommodate these created bodies; as such numbers would need a universe of immeasurable distances for so many. In his book City of God (Vol. 1, Ch.23), St Augustine addressed this very revelation:

‘But as for their numbers, who sees not that the sands do far exceed the stars? Herein you may say they are not comparable in that they are both innumerable. For we cannot think that one can see all the stars, but the more earnestly he beholds them the more he sees: so that we may well suppose that there are some that deceive the sharpest eyes, besides those that arise in other horizons out of sight.’

There's no contradiction.  We know there are an incredibly vast number of stars, even some we cannot see, hanging in the firmament over the flat earth. We can't even say that the stars themselves aren't the size of grains of sand in actuality, or maybe somewhat larger, but still small, just super powered and brilliant so that their light reaches earth from way up. We just know that stars aren't huge worlds because we can see for ourselves that they are twinkling lights.  The Fathers say the height of the firmament is quite lofty, not to mention the vast area between distances to the edges of the earth. There is some speculation from a lot of people that more land exists so that distance extending 4 different directions might be many times larger than what we are aware of. Doesn't matter either way. We can't determine, as far as I can tell, just how lofty the dome is or large of an area is involved, nor the size of the stars, just that the number of stars is vast, even to the point they're compared to grains of sand.  

Augustine's explanation later shows that he recognizes the sheer number of stars by accounting for many more unseen.  Again, this changes nothing.  Assuming stars are the size NASA claims is where the problem begins.   
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Offline Cera

Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2023, 01:32:42 PM »
Quote from: Tradman on July 17, 2023, 09:34:37 AM

Have you done this experiment? You assume stars are millions of miles away because NASA tells you that.  Not only is their massive lie proven wrong by videos like this, many other people have discovered the same thing and shared it everywhere. I've seen many of these by various individuals before they were taken down by Youtube and other gatekeepers. Stars are not worlds, they are lights. And they are not too far away to video. Stars are relatively small lights just above us in the firmament. I've personally taken videos like this with my P900 and posted them.  Ignoring or denying the results of honest experiments to see if NASA is telling the truth and even that prove NASA is lying, isn't going to help anyone. 
That tells us a lot.
Why are they so intent on censoring what most people have been carefully taught is a "crackpot" idea?
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