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Author Topic: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis  (Read 3459 times)

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Offline Cera

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2022, 05:28:33 PM »
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  • Can you finish the passage for us here? Did the 'sons of God' come to stand before the Lord as men after death?  We just need to verify context of what's being said.
    [1] There was a man in the land of Hus, whose name was Job, and that man was simple and upright, and fearing God, and avoiding evil. [2] And there were born to him seven sons and three daughters. [3] And his possession was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a family exceeding great: and this man was great among all the people of the east. [4] And his sons went, and made a feast by houses every one in his day. And sending they called their three sisters to eat and drink with them. [5] And when the days of their feasting were gone about, Job sent to them, and sanctified them: and rising up early offered h0Ɩ0cαųsts for every one of them. For he said: Lest perhaps my sons have sinned, and have blessed God in their hearts. So did Job all days.
    [1] "Hus": The land of Hus was a part of Edom; as appears from Lam. 4. 21.-- Ibid.
    [1] "Simple": That is, innocent, sincere, and without guile.
    [4] "And made a feast by houses": That is, each made a feast in his own house and had his day, inviting the others, and their sisters.
    [5] "Blessed": For greater horror of the very thought of blasphemy, the scripture both here and ver. 11, and in the following chapter, ver. 5 and 9, uses the word bless to signify its contrary.
    [6] Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them. [7] And the Lord said to him: Whence comest thou? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it. [8] And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? [9] And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? [10] Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth?
    [6] "The sons of God": The angels.-- Ibid. Satan also, etc. This passage represents to us in a figure, accommodated to the ways and understandings of men, 1. The restless endeavours of Satan against the servants of God; 2. That he can do nothing without God's permission; 3. That God doth not permit him to tempt them above their strength: but assists them by his divine grace in such manner, that the vain efforts of the enemy only serve to illustrate their virtue and increase their merit.
    [11] But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. [12] Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. [13] Now upon a certain day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their eldest brother, [14] There came a messenger to Job, and said: The oxen were ploughing, and the asses feeding beside them, [15] And the Sabeans rushed in, and took all away, and slew the servants with the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell thee.
    [16] And while he was yet speaking, another came, and said: The fire of God fell from heaven, and striking the sheep and the servants, hath consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell thee. [17] And while he also was yet speaking, there came another, and said: The Chaldeans made three troops, and have fallen upon the camels, and taken them, moreover they have slain the servants with the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell thee. [18] He was yet speaking, and behold another came in, and said: Thy sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their elder brother: [19] A violent wind came on a sudden from the side of the desert, and shook the four corners of the house, and it fell upon thy children and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell thee. [20] Then Job rose up, and rent his garments, and having shaven his head fell down upon the ground and worshipped,
    [21] And said: Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord. [22] In all these things Job sinned not by his lips, nor spoke he any foolish thing against God.

    < previous Book of Jobnext >
    < previous Chapter 1next >


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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #76 on: August 19, 2022, 05:36:04 PM »
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  • I'm still on the fence on whether "sons of God" refers to the demons exclusively, or also the sons of Seth though. As both were involved in the generation of these giants.
    I see no contradiction. When we are told the "sons of God" took as wives the "daughters of man" it may have been prevalent among Seth's progeny.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #77 on: August 19, 2022, 05:59:06 PM »
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  • You might say these angels aka "sons of God" -- kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation and seeing that the daughters of men were "fair" (beautiful) they took them as wives.

    Actually that is in God's Word:
    Jude 1:6
    [6] And the angels who kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation, he hath reserved under darkness in everlasting chains, unto the judgment of the great day.


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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #78 on: August 19, 2022, 06:55:49 PM »
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  • Cera, the "sons of God" either means Seth's descendants or fallen angels.  Not both.  The "daughters of man" are not Seth's line but Cain's.  We know this for sure.


    Ladislaus, great points you made in multiple posts.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #79 on: August 19, 2022, 07:02:39 PM »
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  • Quote
    Again, as I noted earlier in the thread, it's possible that these "sons of God' were some other unknown creatures that are referred to as angels by the correlation of this term "sons of God" with Job's definition. Yet, we also see individuals who are not pure spirits referred to as "angels" all over Scripture.
    On a totally unrelated and absolute sidetrack topic, when we're talking about the possibility of angels who are not pure spirits it makes me think how perfectly Tolkien captured such a nature in his Elves, who while being involved in the earth and helping men and fighting evil, also had an otherworldly feeling to them, as if they knew of their higher purpose.


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #80 on: August 19, 2022, 07:18:03 PM »
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  • On a totally unrelated and absolute sidetrack topic, when we're talking about the possibility of angels who are not pure spirits it makes me think how perfectly Tolkien captured such a nature in his Elves, who while being involved in the earth and helping men and fighting evil, also had an otherworldly feeling to them, as if they knew of their higher purpose.

    Gen. 6:4 "sons of God" = Biblical elves.
    /thread.
    :trollface:

    But seriously, that's actually a good comparison. As Tolkien was very well-versed in mythology on top of his Catholic Faith, so him drawing up such a creature from the amalgamation of the two is actually an interesting insight into just what Gen. 6:4 means.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #81 on: August 19, 2022, 10:40:34 PM »
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  • Spanish Stonehenge dated at 5000 BC.  This matches the EXACT time that Noah and the Giants were walking the earth.  Stonehenge structures are just massive satanic sacrificial areas, built by the pagan Giants.  Bible proved right again!



    https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/spanish-stonehenge-drought/index.html

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #82 on: August 19, 2022, 10:48:27 PM »
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  • Spanish Stonehenge dated at 5000 BC.  This matches the EXACT time that Noah and the Giants were walking the earth.  Stonehenge structures are just massive satanic sacrificial areas, built by the pagan Giants.  Bible proved right again!



    https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/spanish-stonehenge-drought/index.html
    Awesome.

    You should check out that episode of Ancient Aliens I shared a few pages back, that talk about the giants and megalithic structures too. Good stuff.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #83 on: August 20, 2022, 10:46:26 AM »
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  • Awesome.

    You should check out that episode of Ancient Aliens I shared a few pages back, that talk about the giants and megalithic structures too. Good stuff.

    Yeah, it's all fascinating stuff.  I think it was Anne Catherine Emmerich who said (through Brentano) that she saw these giants building such things.  But what she described exceeded even the capabilities of giants, and she said they had diabolical help.

    I've long agreed that there's simply NO WAY human beings could have built some of these meglithic structures that we could not build today even with all our machinery without some kind of preternatural intervention ... or else some technology (anti-"gravity") that we do not have today (at least in terms of what the hoi polloi (or goy) are allowed to know about).

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #84 on: August 20, 2022, 11:04:11 AM »
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  • On a totally unrelated and absolute sidetrack topic, when we're talking about the possibility of angels who are not pure spirits it makes me think how perfectly Tolkien captured such a nature in his Elves, who while being involved in the earth and helping men and fighting evil, also had an otherworldly feeling to them, as if they knew of their higher purpose.
    Since you bring up elves, one school of thought says they are demonic.

    Making the Demonic User Friendly: Elves, Fairies, Gnomes, Leprechauns and the Like
    fairy
    Once upon a time, most common books of fairy tales, contained stories which featured
    Quote
    dwarfs, dragons, elves, fairies, giants, gnomes, goblins, griffins, mermaids, talking animals, trolls, unicorns, or witches, and usually magic or enchantments
    [Some of the other creatures in the fairy tales were pixies, sprites and elementals.]
    ALSO featured were usually a few notable facts about such entities.
    Such as
    1- Most were NOT friendly to humans.
    2- Most were involved in some sort of  “magic.”
    3- Most caused trouble–particularly at night.
    4- The stories were often about how humans could trick the entities into performing some service for the humans.
    5- IF the entity was not able to be tricked, the humans would set out sacrifices (most usually food, alcohol or milk) in order for the entities to leave them alone.
    THUS, most children of a certain age who had a knowledge of fairy tales also had a knowledge that the beings which were featured in these tales were not usually friendly to humans.
    In fact, if one looks up most of these beings featured in fairy tales, it can be found that the people who composed the tales believed these elves, fairies and other similar beings to be demonic.
    In other words, the authors of these fairy tales used the common folk names for demons: elf, fairy, gnome, leprechaun, etc.
    Since most men have a natural aversion to demons, these supernatural, otherworldly creatures were thought to be an enemy–or at the least, an adversary–of man.
    So how has modern man changed so? How has modern man taken such a fancy to elves, fairies, leprechauns and the like?
    Modern man has been carefully taught that these demonic entities are friendly and cute.
    TWO men in particular are responsible for most of this teaching.
    Walt Disney, through his many cartoons and animated stories/movies and J.R.R. Tolkien with his many stories (such as Lord of the Rings) in which elves were the “heroes.”
    Quote
    A famous witch once made the statement “I come from a family of witches. While you were learning the 23rd Psalm, I was reading Tolkien and CS Lewis.”
     —C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien: Heretical Fruits
    Generations have grown up being read to and reading Tolkien’s fiction and watching the antics of the animated fairy, Tinkerbell.  And now, generations have the idea that elves, fairies and the like, are FRIENDS of man.
    We will call it the Modernization of the Fairy Tale.
    It’s just another service of the world: making the demonic user friendly.


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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #85 on: August 20, 2022, 11:12:06 AM »
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  • Yeah, it's all fascinating stuff.  I think it was Anne Catherine Emmerich who said (through Brentano) that she saw these giants building such things.  But what she described exceeded even the capabilities of giants, and she said they had diabolical help.

    I've long agreed that there's simply NO WAY human beings could have built some of these meglithic structures that we could not build today even with all our machinery without some kind of preternatural intervention ... or else some technology (anti-"gravity") that we do not have today (at least in terms of what the hoi polloi (or goy) are allowed to know about).
    I've read all 6 volumes of Anne Catherine Emmerich and nver saw anything about giants.

    I agree with the rest of what you say.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #86 on: August 20, 2022, 11:15:28 AM »
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  • Scripture, Angels, fallen angels, Nephalim DNA and Giants (with enlongated heads, six fingers and usually red hair).

    see here


    or scroll down to see video here (accompanying text)
    https://www.yourtruthmytruthhistruth.com/fallen-angels-nephilim
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #87 on: August 20, 2022, 11:19:11 AM »
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  • I've read all 6 volumes of Anne Catherine Emmerich and nver saw anything about giants.

    I agree with the rest of what you say.

    DL posted it ... I think it was somewhere earlier in this thread, unless my memory is faulty.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #88 on: August 20, 2022, 11:24:21 AM »
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  • I've read all 6 volumes of Anne Catherine Emmerich and nver saw anything about giants.

    I agree with the rest of what you say.
    Here's what I quoted.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #89 on: August 20, 2022, 11:49:24 AM »
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  • Here's what I quoted.
    Thanks DL. I'll look at my hard copy.

    Also I found these Bible references to giants.

    Numbers 13:33
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    There we saw certain monsters of the sons of Enac, of the giant kind: in comparison of whom, we seemed like locusts.

    Deut 2:20-21
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    20 It was accounted a land of giants: and giants formerly dwelt in it, whom the Ammonites call Zomzommims, 21A people great and many, and of tall stature, like the Enacims whom the Lord destroyed before their face: and he made them to dwell in their stead

    Deut. 3:11
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    For only Og king of Basan remained of the race of the giants. His bed of iron is shewn, which is in Rabbath of the children of Ammon, being nine cubits long, and four broad after the measure of the cubit of a man's hand.

    1Sammuel 17:4
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    And there went out a man baseborn from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Geth, whose height was six cubits and a span
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