Quote from: Ethelred

Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...

They can do it.  They're bishops.  They can consecrate new bishops.  And they can preach.  Even if it's only to one congregation.

What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.

You must agree, we are seeing the SSPX disintegrate before our eyes. The
nice PR piece +Fellay cranked out does not address the truth; it's just window
dressing for the "holidays" of summer, so worldly followers can enjoy their
vacations and feel good. "Everything's fine." I actually heard that said
about this.

So, of course, someone who wants to think that "everything's fine" will read
+Fellay's Propaganda piece and latch onto it with a vice grip, saying, "YOU SEE,
I TOLD YOU SO: EVERYTHING'S FINE." And then go on vacation and have a
nice time, "living like I'm 21 again."

In the Mass, we pray, "I will go unto the altar of God: to God who giveth joy
to my youth." That comes from Psalms. We have to read it at every Mass our
whole lives because it takes a lifetime to learn what it means.

When +ABL founded a seminary, it wasn't the first building project he had
undertaken and finished. And every time he said Mass, he prayed those words
of the Psalms, and the altar servers repeated them: twice.

When he founded the Society, far too many Catholics yawned and paid no
attention. They were too busy watching Bonanza, Red Skelton, The Brady
Bunch and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Oh, and Lassie: they were too
busy watching Lassie, to notice that a living saint was handing down the
Tradition he had received.

Is it any different today? Everything's fine: let's go to the beach!
(You'll have to forgive me, I live in L.A.!)

Bishop +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta are not helpless, for they are bishops,
and they can do things, as you say. They can consecrate new bishops. That
would be looked upon as an act of WAR by +Fellay, however, because he is
subservient already to the wiles of B16, even if a deal is NOT signed.

We read about how heavy the weight was that bore on +ABL when he made
the consecrations. And we can see it in the photographs of that day. Now, we
see the same weight pressing on "The Three," but I must say, I don't see it
on +Fellay. He doesn't seem to be concerned. To him, "Everything's fine," etc.

It seems to me, that on our part, we can send our support, both prayers and
material, to the good bishops, in this time of trial. Notice, they are not asking
for us to do that, probably because the "iron fist" that came down on various
priests already would come down on them with a vengeance. But we don't
have to wait for an invitation. We can do our part as we see fit at this time.
We have the jurisdiction over our own substance, and we can decide how we
are going to contribute to the support of the Church. Do we send contributions
to the Ecclesia Dei Commission, or the USCCB? What about Focolare or the
NeoCatechumenal Way? Do you contribute to the NeoCatechumenal Way?

So why should we support +Fellay as he equally subverts the Society as do
these others subvert the Church?  

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Ethelred

Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...

They can do it.  They're bishops.  They can consecrate new bishops.  And they can preach.  Even if it's only to one congregation.

What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.

You must agree, we are seeing the SSPX disintegrate before our eyes. The
nice PR piece +Fellay cranked out does not address the truth; it's just window
dressing for the "holidays" of summer, so worldly followers can enjoy their
vacations and feel good. "Everything's fine." I actually heard that said
about this.

So, of course, someone who wants to think that "everything's fine" will read
+Fellay's Propaganda piece and latch onto it with a vice grip, saying, "YOU SEE,
I TOLD YOU SO: EVERYTHING'S FINE." And then go on vacation and have a
nice time, "living like I'm 21 again."

In the Mass, we pray, "I will go unto the altar of God: to God who giveth joy
to my youth." That comes from Psalms. We have to read it at every Mass our
whole lives because it takes a lifetime to learn what it means.

When +ABL founded a seminary, it wasn't the first building project he had
undertaken and finished. And every time he said Mass, he prayed those words
of the Psalms, and the altar servers repeated them: twice.

When he founded the Society, far too many Catholics yawned and paid no
attention. They were too busy watching Bonanza, Red Skelton, The Brady
Bunch and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Oh, and Lassie: they were too
busy watching Lassie, to notice that a living saint was handing down the
Tradition he had received.

Is it any different today? Everything's fine: let's go to the beach!
(You'll have to forgive me, I live in L.A.!)

Bishop +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta are not helpless, for they are bishops,
and they can do things, as you say. They can consecrate new bishops. That
would be looked upon as an act of WAR by +Fellay, however, because he is
subservient already to the wiles of B16, even if a deal is NOT signed.

We read about how heavy the weight was that bore on +ABL when he made
the consecrations. And we can see it in the photographs of that day. Now, we
see the same weight pressing on "The Three," but I must say, I don't see it
on +Fellay. He doesn't seem to be concerned. To him, "Everything's fine," etc.

It seems to me, that on our part, we can send our support, both prayers and
material, to the good bishops, in this time of trial. Notice, they are not asking
for us to do that, probably because the "iron fist" that came down on various
priests already would come down on them with a vengeance. But we don't
have to wait for an invitation. We can do our part as we see fit at this time.
We have the jurisdiction over our own substance, and we can decide how we
are going to contribute to the support of the Church. Do we send contributions
to the Ecclesia Dei Commission, or the USCCB? What about Focolare or the
NeoCatechumenal Way? Do you contribute to the NeoCatechumenal Way?

So why should we support +Fellay as he equally subverts the Society as do
these others subvert the Church?  

I agree with you!

Its still possible for the SSPX resistance to take the inititiative, to help save Catholic tradition.  If Fellay refuses to resign, the 3-Bishops should consecrate more bishops and secede from the corrupted neoSSPX. It would be a daring move that Bp. Fellay and Max Krah would find hard to counter.

The SSPX faitful can support the priests and bishops like we always have in homes and temporary accomodations.  It would be a very humble and true practice of our Faith.   Bp. Fellay is betting we'll follow him on the "easy road"
to Rome and give-up our Faith.

Yes, to continue the work of Archbishop Lefebvre they should consecrate bishops for every Traditional order: Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines... I suggested this before on another thread. Every order could administer also the sacrament of Confirmation to their supporters and help the three bishops in their work. Less expensive than traveling for a modest new, but strongly Traditional SSPX truly working for the glory of God and the salvation of souls.

A suitable response from the the 3 to the 1(and the office help).

Quote

God quit you in his mercy! Hear your sentence.
You have conspired against the SSPX,
Join'd with an enemy proclaim'd and from his coffers
Received the golden earnest of the death of the SSPX;
Wherein you would have sold the SSPX to slaughter,
The SSPX princes and his peers to servitude,
The SSPX subjects to oppression and contempt
And the whole SSPX into desolation.
Touching our person seek we no revenge;
But the SSPX'x safety must so tender,
Whose ruin you have sought, that to God's laws
We do deliver you. Get you therefore hence,
Poor miserable wretches, to your death:
The taste whereof, God of his mercy give
You patience to endure, and true repentance
Of all your dear offences! Bear them hence.

~ Shakespeare (Henry V)

Bravo!!!  :applause:

Quote from: Ferdinand

A suitable response from the the 3 to the 1(and the office help).

Quote

God quit you in his mercy! Hear your sentence.
You have conspired against the SSPX,
Join'd with an enemy proclaim'd and from his coffers
Received the golden earnest of the death of the SSPX;
Wherein you would have sold the SSPX to slaughter,
The SSPX princes and his peers to servitude,
The SSPX subjects to oppression and contempt
And the whole SSPX into desolation.
Touching our person seek we no revenge;
But the SSPX'x safety must so tender,
Whose ruin you have sought, that to God's laws
We do deliver you. Get you therefore hence,
Poor miserable wretches, to your death:
The taste whereof, God of his mercy give
You patience to endure, and true repentance
Of all your dear offences! Bear them hence.

~ Shakespeare (Henry V)

Bravo!!!  :applause:

 :applause: :applause:
Awsome!  Who would have thought that Shakespere would have such an appropriate quote for this situation!

Quote from: Clelia

Perhaps The Bishops and their respective groupies do not, either. Perhaps they are on a journey, and instead of picking it apart and wasting time causing scandalous talk, we ought to spend more time in earnest prayer for God's Holy Will.


I suppose this is the stuff that sells papers, er, forums advertising; but, I suggest we deal in the facts the best we can substantiate them pray much, and stop looking like self-appointed authoities who really do not know what's going on , as we appear to 'lookers."


There's more yet to unfold, and I believe our prayers are much needed instead of our useless rant. Really. Useless. Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson probably could care less.


OK, I'm ready for my close-up now, Mr. DeMille.  :faint:

Beautifully stated, Clelia.  A few have been saying this for months, but it falls on deaf ears.  The sensationalists, rumor-mongers, and speculators/scandalous talk/useless rant, would have to *gasp* close up shop.  To do as you suggest would mean putting aside ego and self-importance.

In the end who of us can truly say we prayed long enough, sacrificed hard enough?  I am guilty too and I expect to have to do much penance for my failings and shortcomings.    

That is a non sequitur. It does not follow that we should close our eyes to signs of an impending storm because we have not prayed long or hard enough.

Was Archbishop Lefebvre entreated to do nothing but pray, pay, and obey forty years ago? If so, it is a good thing he did not listen.

There is nothing we can do without facts and even then, we can only act if given an opportunity. We cannot make supposition, or rant about either facts or truth, and make progress.

We have facts. Forums help us to find and digest these facts.

We know that Bishop Fellay is pursuing a deal with rome considered harmful and dangerous by the other three bishops. We do not know many of the details, but we can see that is because +Fellay has chosen to operate under the veil of secrecy although we have not been told why.

We know that Bishop Fellay admitted changing his position on the Vatican II text concerning religious liberty as a result of the talks with the Vatican:

http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.com/2012/05/rorate-already-passed-this-on-as-have.html

Bishop Fellay's picked man in the US, Fr. Rostand, cried "dishonest" in a subsequent interview against those interpreting +Fellay's admission as a change of position. In the interviewer's follow-up question of whether the SSPX had changed its position, Fr. Rostand could not answer and changed the subject:

http://www.gloria.tv/?media=300906

That is a non sequitur. It does not follow that we should close our eyes to signs of an impending storm because we have not prayed long or hard enough.

Was Archbishop Lefebvre entreated to do nothing but pray, pay, and obey forty years ago? If so, it is a good thing he did not listen.

That's why Our Lord told us: watch and pray. (Not pray and watch, but watch and pray.)

And the man of God, Bishop Williamson always says this, too:
Watch and pray
Watch and pray
Fifteen mysteries every day


Dear Emerentiana, you're right: there's a communistic atmosphere in the SSPX by now. Several anti-modernistic SSPX priests from various European countries say exactly that. So it's not the barmy idea of some Internet nuts, but reports of our brave priests from the front. No down-votes on this forum can cause to vanish this reality. In the parishes there's a similar atmosphere rising. We who support the anti-modernistic SSPX priests and bishops are now under observation.

Those who experienced Krah beginning with 2005+ , already noticed this communistic atmosphere back then. But let's not blame him alone. He is just the henchman. The men who recruited him and and who're his business partners: Bp Fellay, Fr Pfluger, Fr Schmidberger, and some more. They have the same state of mind. That is the reason why they use a man who talks and acts like a STASI officer (STASI = State Security of the former GDR aka communistic East Germany.)

The brave Fr Pfeiffer said in , that the bad fruits of dealing with New-Rome is (amongst others) lies and terror. We see it in the SSPX now. Menzingen brings terror upon the faithful priests and bishops. What else can we expect from Bp Fellay who's in a state of diabolical disorientation, as Fr Pfeiffer described it in his famous Pentecost sermon?

So, let's watch and pray.

I knew the Society was in trouble a few years ago when they mailed me a flyer for an "active retirement community" for traditional Catholics that they planned to build in Oregon. Since when are priestly societies involved in speculative real estate development? The whole idea stunk like a kettle of fish.

Perhaps another ghettoization campaign, as with some rural towns where SSPX represents a bulk of the economy? It adds additional incentive to "loyalty".