Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Thursday on July 14, 2012, 07:31:32 AM
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I suppose a petition would be something.
A well written open letter?
T-shirt that reads "I'm not donating until Fellay resigns"
Perhaps wearing a certain color that would signify your opposition to Fellay without getting into any verbal exchanges.
These are just a few off-the-cuff ideas.
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What Cane Be Done?
I agree. He should be caned. (http://i2.ifrm.com/16087/138/emo/smileymad2.gif)
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Bishop Fellay will NOT be ousted. I have heard that the SSPX has been ordered by Benedict to be renamed at a future date. That will be a blessing because the new group will then be set apart.
The question is: What will happen to the SSPX priests and faithful who dont go along? Well........they will have no real estate, and the "re educated" priests and laity will marginalize them. Then they will leave the chapels of the Neo group. Back to the garages, homes, and hotels.
When you think of it, all Gods plans are providential. With the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr pressing upon us, do you think we will be able to assemble for the mass publically?
The Christians in Rome were not able to do so, and neither are the Catholics in Russia and China, or anywhere for that matter where the church is persecuted.
Fr Phiffer's talk on the Feast of the Precious Blood whas so directed to the Trads of today. He said that if we get to comfortable, we will not be able to perservere. Father said that we will never be without the Body and Blood of Christ until the end. I hope every one of you listen to his talk.
Believe me, the Catholics of the last days will not be comfortable, any more then the ones who left the Vatican 11 churches in the late 60's or early 70's.
Catherine Emmerich said in one of the Volumes of her life (written by Brentano) that at the end there were only 200 priests left in the world, and she saw Bishops amoung them. Pius X has how many priests?
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Bishop Fellay will NOT be ousted
Did anybody expect him to be ousted?
Even in this from DICI they write of unity
http://www.dici.org/en/news/sspx-press-communique-of-july-14-2012/
The General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X ended this Saturday, July 14, 2012, in Econe (Switzerland). Gathered near Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s tomb, the capitularies have given thanks to God for the profound unity that prevailed among them during all these workdays.
The General Chapter will soon make a common statement to Rome, which will then be made public.
The General Superior, Bishop Fellay, thanks deeply all the priests and faithfuls for their fervent prayers during this chapter.
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Hold ALL donations in reserve. It cannot be stressed enough.
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Hold ALL donations in reserve. It cannot be stressed enough.
and people who can afford it should start eyeing real estate. This isn't over.
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Pray to God to help Bishop Fellay see the . Ask God to help Bishop Fellay to not be tempted by the silver of wealth and power of the devil.
Vatican II not only changed the Mass but it watered down sacraments and opened doors to a liberal secular "catholic".
We also pray that Pope Benedict XVI takes immediate action and rid the Church of evil doers.
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Vote with your pocket book... the $$PX understands this language.
Hold ALL donations in reserve. It cannot be stressed enough.
I couldn't agree more. Stop funding the Neo-$$PX until +Fellay and the office help (read the majority of +Fellay's comrades) are evicted and the faithful clerics are welcomed back.
Funding also includes their sorry excuse for education. At this point I can't imagine leaving my children in their schools where the modernist indoctrination will continue to increase in frequency and amplitude. Even if you don't drink the Kool-Aid, if you leave your children in the Neo-$$PX schools they will before their "formation" is over!
The war is on!
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Bishop Fellay will NOT be ousted. I have heard that the SSPX has been ordered by Benedict to be renamed at a future date. That will be a blessing because the new group will then be set apart.
The question is: What will happen to the SSPX priests and faithful who dont go along? Well........they will have no real estate, and the "re educated" priests and laity will marginalize them. Then they will leave the chapels of the Neo group. Back to the garages, homes, and hotels.
When you think of it, all Gods plans are providential. With the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr pressing upon us, do you think we will be able to assemble for the mass publically?
The Christians in Rome were not able to do so, and neither are the Catholics in Russia and China, or anywhere for that matter where the church is persecuted.
Fr Phiffer's talk on the Feast of the Precious Blood whas so directed to the Trads of today. He said that if we get to comfortable, we will not be able to perservere. Father said that we will never be without the Body and Blood of Christ until the end. I hope every one of you listen to his talk.
Believe me, the Catholics of the last days will not be comfortable, any more then the ones who left the Vatican 11 churches in the late 60's or early 70's.
Catherine Emmerich said in one of the Volumes of her life (written by Brentano) that at the end there were only 200 priests left in the world, and she saw Bishops amoung them. Pius X has how many priests?
More important than not getting comfortable is thinking you can't fight or that our fate has been sealed already, these are the last days etc. There are a lot of signs of things improving, ten years ago hardly anyone talked about the traditional mass etc, a lot of things are in our favor now that weren't before.
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Hi, Thirsday,
Today is the day of no Traditional Mass in South Korea.
We faithful have Youtube Channels. I have one and you also have nice channel.
I like the channel SSPX-Rome. Youtube has very wide range of different people. I think faithful have to make their own videos about this grave issue, SSPX-Vatican.
Youtube is more popular than specific internet forum.
I've been busy for answering many phone calls from our S.Korean faithful who don't know how to get the information from Web. They are old ladies. But they really want to know what's going on about SSPX-Vatican.
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I know what cane be done:
We can all call up Angelus Press and ask them when their stockpile of
obsolete 1962 missals will be on sale for half price!
That ought to get things moving right along! (http://i2.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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Hi, Thirsday,
Today is the day of no Traditional Mass in South Korea.
We faithful have Youtube Channels. I have one and you also have nice channel.
I like the channel SSPX-Rome. Youtube has very wide range of different people. I think faithful have to make their own videos about this grave issue, SSPX-Vatican.
Youtube is more popular than specific internet forum.
I've been busy for answering many phone calls from our S.Korean faithful who don't know how to get the information from Web. They are old ladies. But they really want to know what's going on about SSPX-Vatican.
Hi Lucca, I was looking for you in June when we went to Seoul I'm glad you are taking the time to explain to the other parishoners what's happening, I know there is not a lot of information available in Korean, you're doing a very important job.
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Hi, Thirsday,
Today is the day of no Traditional Mass in South Korea.
We faithful have Youtube Channels. I have one and you also have nice channel.
I like the channel SSPX-Rome. Youtube has very wide range of different people. I think faithful have to make their own videos about this grave issue, SSPX-Vatican.
Youtube is more popular than specific internet forum.
I've been busy for answering many phone calls from our S.Korean faithful who don't know how to get the information from Web. They are old ladies. But they really want to know what's going on about SSPX-Vatican.
Hi Lucca, I was looking for you in June when we went to Seoul I'm glad you are taking the time to explain to the other parishoners what's happening, I know there is not a lot of information available in Korean, you're doing a very important job.
Fr. Onoda will be in July 22.
Fr. Chazal will be in July 29.
One of faithful told me Fr. Chazal called that he will be from July 27.
So I think he will say a Sunday Mass,July 29.
Fr. Onoda permitted for him to visit S.Korea again.
This is the latest mass schedule.
It's different from the schedule on the SSPX Korea website.
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vatican II the mass and sacraments were created by protestants and a mason
Now, USCCB has denied Christ by working with a Jєωιѕн woman and revising the Catholic bible which is heresy.
Already, many SSPX uses the 1962 missal that was part of propaganda to get ready for vatican II.
What does Bishop Fellay think of all of this?
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I know what cane be done:
We can all call up Angelus Press and ask them when their stockpile of
obsolete 1962 missals will be on sale for half price!
That ought to get things moving right along! (http://i2.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
Our chapel doesn't use the Missal or that Mass. It is considered as John XXIII Mass preparing the next phas of Novus ordo.
We use missals that are old before 1945 and there are some good reproductions from our lady of library has the Marian Missal and there is st andrew reproduction which I have.
I recently found old catholic bible in great condition. Better get a good one before the changes to the new testament.
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Hi, Thirsday,
Today is the day of no Traditional Mass in South Korea.
We faithful have Youtube Channels. I have one and you also have nice channel.
I like the channel SSPX-Rome. Youtube has very wide range of different people. I think faithful have to make their own videos about this grave issue, SSPX-Vatican.
Youtube is more popular than specific internet forum.
I've been busy for answering many phone calls from our S.Korean faithful who don't know how to get the information from Web. They are old ladies. But they really want to know what's going on about SSPX-Vatican.
Hi Lucca, I was looking for you in June when we went to Seoul I'm glad you are taking the time to explain to the other parishoners what's happening, I know there is not a lot of information available in Korean, you're doing a very important job.
Fr. Onoda will be in July 22.
Fr. Chazal will be in July 29.
One of faithful told me Fr. Chazal called that he will be from July 27.
So I think he will say a Sunday Mass,July 29.
Fr. Onoda permitted for him to visit S.Korea again.
This is the latest mass schedule.
It's different from the schedule on the SSPX Korea website.
Well that is wonderful news that Fr. Chazel is now permitted to visit again!!
Thanks for the update.
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Well that is wonderful news that Fr. Chazel is now permitted to visit again!!
Gosh, somebody please tell Fr. Chazal about the purge! Tell him that he has to run out of the SSPX immediately, crying out as he goes, "Stop pushing me out, I tell you, stop purging me!"
:facepalm:
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Gosh, somebody please tell Fr. Chazal about the purge! Tell him that he has to run out of the SSPX immediately, crying out as he goes, "Stop pushing me out, I tell you, stop purging me!" :facepalm:
GtG, I suppose owing to your apparent belief that you can discern souls, you must think I write to slake my ego. That is not the case, I write rarely on this subject, and generally just to warn people. I actually don't like this state of affairs any more than you do, but do absolutely refuse to be a dupe.
My "prophesy" as you mockingly refer, is nothing more than a play-by-play case study in every revolution of the modern age, religious and political. It is now happening within SSPX, and to deny this, is, quite simply, to delude oneself.
But... Since you're such a sport, may I remind you of what I referred to as Phase 2; "Staged outrage". Another commentator said: "I have been labelled as a Bishop Williamson groupie or disciple" You will, GtG, see a WHOLE LOT MORE of this in near future. Will it foster unity?
You would also do well to refresh you memory on +Fellay's public discourse of the past few months, to the end of fully understanding the vile and provocative nature of his deeds.
What seems to you as resolution of all this unpleasantness, is the metaphorical equivalent to a shot of morphine. Sadly, it won't last you very long.
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Fr Phiffer's talk on the Feast of the Precious Blood whas so directed to the Trads of today. He said that if we get to comfortable, we will not be able to perservere. Father said that we will never be without the Body and Blood of Christ until the end. I hope every one of you listen to his talk.
Where would I find this? I would like to hear it.
Mar
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A couple of posts mentioned changes to the NT, I haven't heard about these revisions, could someone please update me?
Mar
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A couple of posts mentioned changes to the NT, I haven't heard about these revisions, could someone please update me?
Mar
I saw that too, but I'm not exactly sure what it's referring to. However, there have
been a whole series of tinkerings going on with the Scriptures.
Our most reliable reference point is the Latin Vulgate. It was the only version of
Scripture in existence for Roman Catholics from the 5th century through Trent
(where it was dubbed "error free,") and up to Pope Pius XII. A lot of Catholics think of
Pope Pius XII as "squeaky clean," but there are several marks against him. I would
not include his treatment of the Jews as a mark against him. But he did allow the
revision of the Psalms, with the excuse of reforming the Breviary, or Divine Office.
I would say that was a bad thing. Not so much in what it did to the Psalms, but in
what it did to Tradition. The Psalms should not be touched. Period. He did other
things that are marks against him, like he hired Annibale Bugnini to a position of
authority where he could change the liturgy. He also tampered with the prayers of
Holy Week and Good Friday, which were the most ancient rites in the Roman Rite.
Then he allowed the addition of St. Joseph to the Canon of the Mass. There's nothing
wrong with St. Joseph, but there's a lot wrong with touching the Canon of the
Canonized Roman Rite. It should never be changed, in any way whatsoever. Adding
St. Joseph to the Canon was a "trial baloon" to see if they could get away with it. If
Catholics the world over had protested, they would have been forced to remove
St. Joseph, and then we would not have had the "progress" that kept coming after
that.
But regarding the New Testament, There has been a revised Latin Vulgate in use in
the Vatican and various other parts of the Roman Church for the past 15 years, give
or take: it's called the New Vulgate. At least they were honest enough to put the
word "New" in the title!
All throughout these past few centuries, the most reliable English translation of the
Latin Vulgate has been the Douay-Rheims version. It has a few minor
inconveniences, like "shew" in place of "show" (the pronunciation and meaning is
identical but the spelling changed in the 19th century), and some other verb
conjugations, mostly involving the second person familiar case, like hath, givest,
doth, comest, saith (pronounced "SETH" not "say-eth"), and pronouns like thee,
thou, thine, thy, and so on. But we ought to realize that these special nuances of
the older style of English gives a more accurate sense of the Latin, and helps us
to preserve the sacred sense of Scripture. It is only our pride and our Modernist
inclination that prefers not to "offend our ear" by having to bother with a slightly
different dialect.
However, all that being said, it would not surprise me one iota, if there is
something in the works to render an even more "modern" translation of Scripture.
For the Modernists, it's always change. Change itself is a virtue, to them. A thing
only has "life" if it is moving to them, like when you kick a body lying on the
ground to see if it's alive. If it MOVES, like blinks or twitches or flinches, then it
has life. If it does not move, then it has no life. This stupid principle is transferred
by them in their synthesis of heresies, to the "life of the Church," by which
standard they proclaim that the Church only has life if the Church is changing. And
using this lie, this deception, this intellectual heresy and theological GARBAGE,
they say that Scripture is only alive and "meaningful," if it is changing. Thus they
endeavor to change it.
To that, I answer, we need no more than the words of Jesus, Our Lord Himself,
when He speaks of this very thing, saying: "Heaven and earth shall pass away,
but my words shall not pass away" (Mk xiii. 31).
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A couple of posts mentioned changes to the NT, I haven't heard about these revisions, could someone please update me?
Mar
Here is one of them:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19676&min=0&num=10
Alot of history is being twisted for many reasons. Look at the Novus ordo right now they are working to change the new testament and deny Christ.
So, maybe you should ask Viva Cristo Rey?
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http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/ I think I learned about it. You might have to scroll down to past topics..
They novus ordo are changing the catholic bible of new testatment to accomodate the jews to better ʝʊdɛօ-christian relations..
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Neil, I enjoy your zeal and eloquence. So, please do not consider the following to be a rebuke but rather a request for further exploration and consideration....
On the incorporation of St. Joseph
Inasmuch as both God Incarnate and the Mother of God Herself were obedient to St. Joseph as a foster father and husband, would you not agree that there is at least some point to his incorporation in the Canon, albeit belatedly?
Put another way, why would anyone really want to object to such a decision, per se?
And, put yet another way, again, if the Mediatrix of All Graces rightfully enjoys glorious prominence in the greatest liturgical source of grace itself, and therein, within its most sacred constituent, the Canon, is supplication to the same Saint who kept Her and Jesus alive under dangerous circuмstances and provided for them every day he lived with them, even instructing Our Lord Himself in practical wisdom as the Savior grew into manhood, well....
( I trust you understand where I'm going with this. Personally, I think St. Joseph may have had a word with his own foster Son on behalf of the good churchmen who piously sought, at long, long last! to even remember the dear Saint after so many centuries of unintentional obscurity! )
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Neil, I enjoy your zeal and eloquence. So, please do not consider the following to be a rebuke but rather a request for further exploration and consideration....
On the incorporation of St. Joseph
Inasmuch as both God Incarnate and the Mother of God Herself were obedient to St. Joseph as a foster father and husband, would you not agree that there is at least some point to his incorporation in the Canon, albeit belatedly?
Put another way, why would anyone really want to object to such a decision, per se?
And, put yet another way, again, if the Mediatrix of All Graces rightfully enjoys glorious prominence in the greatest liturgical source of grace itself, and therein, within its most sacred constituent, the Canon, is supplication to the same Saint who kept Her and Jesus alive under dangerous circuмstances and provided for them every day he lived with them, even instructing Our Lord Himself in practical wisdom as the Savior grew into manhood, well....
( I trust you understand where I'm going with this. Personally, I think St. Joseph may have had a word with his own foster Son on behalf of the good churchmen who piously sought, at long, long last! to even remember the dear Saint after so many centuries of unintentional obscurity! )
There is always a pretext for their changes. Do you think St. Joseph is happy they used his name to break open the Canon of the mass? They tried the same trick 100 years earlier and thousands of letters were sent to Rome but the request was denied as it should have been.
ANd you dear friend are playing the part the usurpers want you to play. If someone complains about adding St. Joseph accuse them of having something against the holy guardian of Jesus. Don't tell me you don't see the strategy.
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Neil, I enjoy your zeal and eloquence. So, please do not consider the following to be a rebuke but rather a request for further exploration and consideration....
On the incorporation of St. Joseph
Inasmuch as both God Incarnate and the Mother of God Herself were obedient to St. Joseph as a foster father and husband, would you not agree that there is at least some point to his incorporation in the Canon, albeit belatedly?
Put another way, why would anyone really want to object to such a decision, per se?
And, put yet another way, again, if the Mediatrix of All Graces rightfully enjoys glorious prominence in the greatest liturgical source of grace itself, and therein, within its most sacred constituent, the Canon, is supplication to the same Saint who kept Her and Jesus alive under dangerous circuмstances and provided for them every day he lived with them, even instructing Our Lord Himself in practical wisdom as the Savior grew into manhood, well....
( I trust you understand where I'm going with this. Personally, I think St. Joseph may have had a word with his own foster Son on behalf of the good churchmen who piously sought, at long, long last! to even remember the dear Saint after so many centuries of unintentional obscurity! )
(http://i2.ifrm.com/16087/138/emo/smiley6.gif)
Please refer to this new thread (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19694#p0)
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Here and on other Forums I have seen mention of the SSPX by-laws in regards to
whether +Williamson could ever be legitimately prevented from coming to the
General Chapter. That's a different topic, really, for there are topics here on that
already.
But I mention that since the by-laws are what would seem to be the thing that
should be checked out if you want to get an informed answer to the question this
thread asks:
"What [can] be done to get rid of Bishop Fellay as Superior?"
Therefore, does anyone have access to these legendary by-laws?
Are they being followed?
If not, is that grounds for removing +Fellay, since he's not going by the rules?
Or, is there some procedure in the by-laws that provides for the removal of a
wayward Superior General?
ETC. ....................
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Yes, we need to find that out but I was thinking more along the lines of what the laity can do.
Thanks for getting us back on track BTW.
The thought crossed my mind that perhaps B Fellay barred Bishop Williamson to prevent his own ouster. Or at least prevent a movement in that direction, "Williamson Calls for Fellay to Step Down at SSPX CHapter Meeting" would not make B Fellay look very good to his buddies in Rome.
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It seems like +Fellay used his first 12 years to gain the trust of the clergy and laity, and the first half of his second 12 years to put like-minded superiors in place. It's going to be very difficult to remove him. It will take an organized effort of +Tissier and +Galarreta, along with priests they know they can trust to come up with a solution. +Williamson will have to sit back a bit and let them work it out. As for the laity... we need to pray many rosaries and do penances. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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It seems like +Fellay used his first 12 years to gain the trust of the clergy and laity, and the first half of his second 12 years to put like-minded superiors in place. It's going to be very difficult to remove him.
Well observed.
It will take an organized effort of +Tissier and +Galarreta, along with priests they know they can trust to come up with a solution. +Williamson will have to sit back a bit and let them work it out. As for the laity... we need to pray many rosaries and do penances. Just my thoughts on the matter.
I'm afraid we unfortunately can't count on Bishop de Galarreta. Although I'm confident he's a good priest and bishop, he has got a sensible impairment to health (if this is the correct English term) which more or less often prevents him from working in the "business as usual" style.
Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...
So the "organised resistance" will be minimal, if it will be at all. I'm afraid the SSPX founded by Archbishop Lefebvre is dead now officially. Its agony was visible for some years (and the year 2009 being an eye-opener). The society has done a good job, though. Well, our modern time doesn't deserve another Archbishop Lefebvre society but another Flood. If we observe the signs of our time we see there is a storm brewing. I think we now enter the time of real suffering. First for us Catholics, soon for the entire world. May God have mercy upon us.
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I don't think Fellay's position is all that secure. I think exposing this man in a concise manner and getting the word out (the SSPX is not that large of a group) by handing out pamphlets making videos blogging etc we may be able to make him very unpopular.
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Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...
They can do it. They're bishops. They can consecrate new bishops. And they can preach. Even if it's only to one congregation.
What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.
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I don't think Fellay's position is all that secure. I think exposing this man in a concise manner and getting the word out (the SSPX is not that large of a group) by handing out pamphlets making videos blogging etc we may be able to make him very unpopular.
A nice thought, but only a dream I'm afraid.
Bp Fellay's position is 29:9 secure, so very much secure.
The SSPX as any Catholic society is a hierarchical organisation. That's how the Church was deformed into the New-Church with the help of the visible head of it, the New-Pope(s). Same game now with SSPX. It's indeed Vatican II B, as the good Bishop wrote.
Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...
They can do it.
Yes, they could. But I doubt they will.
It took a religious genius and a battle-tested decades-long Africa missionary like Archbishop Lefebvre to found a new congregation out of nothing, and we simply don't have such a man anymore anywhere. And our time is even much worse.
I think all three Bishops Williamson, Tissier and Galarreta are true followers of Archbishop Lefebvre, but as good as they are, and as glad we're to have them, they're in no way men like the Archbishop was. And they know it. It's no shame and also it's not their "fault", it's just our time. Today we don't have such men like the Archbishop anymore and also the time isn't ripe for such a person anymore. Our time is the time of the Chastisement. Just watch the signs. We don't need to be afraid, because it's God's solution and probably the only saving of us. So I'm not giving up, on the contrary.
What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.
Again, nice thought but they just can't do that with a 29:9 ratio against them. Short of a miracle (which are "very, very limited" these days) it's now: Game Over for the SSPX.
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Kinda pessimistic, no?
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Kinda pessimistic, no?
No, realistic I try to be, i.e. to see what's there and what's not. :-)
A (SSPX) father said recently to me that the collapse of the SSPX (a 29:9 collapse) could be a clear sign that the Chastisement is approaching fast now.
In a certain way all the betrayal and injustice going on in the SSPX, which has been the last large and well organised bastion against the New-Church modernism, could be the last straw that breaks the camel's back. (No loud outcry anymore against Assisi X, no loud outcry against the terrible insults of the New-Church's New-Pope against Heaven, etc)
So with this in min, I don't think we've to be pessimistic. Because nothing happens unless God wills it.
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Many thanks to Ethelred for the realistic and accurate analysis. There are difficult days ahead and it looks like Bishop Fellay is preparing legal action against me.
Ethelred is far from being pessimistic.The analysis is quite true.
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Being honest I have no desire to set foot inside an SSPX chapel ever again. A clean break is the best option.
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So the "organised resistance" will be minimal, if it will be at all. I'm afraid the SSPX founded by Archbishop Lefebvre is dead now officially. Its agony was visible for some years (and the year 2009 being an eye-opener). The society has done a good job, though. Well, our modern time doesn't deserve another Archbishop Lefebvre society but another Flood. If we observe the signs of our time we see there is a storm brewing. I think we now enter the time of real suffering. First for us Catholics, soon for the entire world. May God have mercy upon us.
Fair comment certainly.
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I think all three Bishops Williamson, Tissier and Galarreta are true followers of Archbishop Lefebvre, but as good as they are, and as glad we're to have them, they're in no way men like the Archbishop was. And they know it. It's no shame and also it's not their "fault", it's just our time. Today we don't have such men like the Archbishop anymore and also the time isn't ripe for such a person anymore.
I agree here. I had hoped Bishop Tissier would have stepped up but he isn't a fighter. Himself and Bishop de Galarreta are no Bishop Williamson. I agree it's not their fault.
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I don't think Fellay's position is all that secure. I think exposing this man in a concise manner and getting the word out (the SSPX is not that large of a group) by handing out pamphlets making videos blogging etc we may be able to make him very unpopular.
His position is very secure.
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So I'm not giving up, on the contrary.
A realistic comment and nobody should give up but people must be realistic.
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Thanks John for your good comments.
There are difficult days ahead and it looks like Bishop Fellay is preparing legal action against me.
Because of what you wrote on the Internet about his betrayal?
I'm so sorry to hear that. I'll include you in my humble prayers.
Let me guess: Bp Fellay does this with the help of his bloodhound, the Zionist Krah?
Either way, I'd like to remind the dear opponents of Bp Fellay, Fr Pfluger and Krah: The SSPX' Mossad connection man Krah is scanning all our comments on the Internet, and he backups the relevant ones and reports them to Menzingen.
This is no joke, he said so on the Internet. Krah's homeland, the communistic East Germany was very good with its state security service. And they directly imported the network of informers to the "re-unified" Germany.
No surprise that Krah is feeling fine in today's Germany which in reality is a Super-"East Germany" with a totalitarian "dictatorship of attitude". And so he now heads for the parliament in Merkel's CDU party (which amongst other things supports and implements sodomy and mass abortion).
God has His ways to stop all of this insanity. His medicine will cure mankind but be very bitter. But as our forefathers already knew: it's the bitter medicine which helps the most.
-
From another thread. We can't forget the letter of the three Bishops or the meeting at Albano.
Dear Gertrude the Great,
I stand by my last ("rubbish analysis") post. If the day was saved it was no thanks to + Fellay but by the wisdom of the other two bishops who must have embolden the other members.
The General Chapter has not met for 6 years. The meeting you are referring to last October 2011 was for the Bishops and District Superiors to discuss the "doctrinal preamble" given to Bishop Fellay by Rome the previous month.
At the Albano meeting, all the bishops and priests opposed bishop Fellay with the exception of Fr. Pfluger. Bishop Fellay was ready to sign the "1989 Profession of Faith" etc. and he was stopped very quickly and ended up in agreement on +Fellay's side not to sign it.
April 7th, 2012, The three other bishops sent the letter to +Fellay and his two assistants, Fr. Pfluger and Fr. Nely opposing the deal. The letter ends:
"Your Excellency, Fathers, take care! You want to lead the Society to a point where it will no longer be able to turn back, to a profound division of no return and, if you end up to such an agreement, it will be with powerful destroying influences who will not keep it. If up until now the bishops of the Society have protected it, it is precisely because Mgr Lefebvre refused a practical agreement. Since the situation has not changed substantially, since the condition prescribed by the Chapter of 2006 was by no means carried out (a doctrinal change in Rome which would permit a practical agreement), at least listen to your Founder. It was right 25 years ago. It is right still today. On his behalf, we entreat you: do not engage the Society in a purely practical agreement."
Bishop Fellay and his two assistants respond (last paragraph):
" You cannot know how much your attitude over the last few months - quite different for each of you - has been hard for us. It has prevented the Superior General from sharing with you these great concerns, which he would gladly have brought you in to, had he not found himself faced with such a strong and passionate lack of understanding. How much he would have loved to be able to count on you, on your advice to undergo this so delicate moment in our history. It is a great trial, perhaps the greatest of all 18 years of his being superior. Our venerable founder gave to the Society bishops a task and precise duties. He made clear that the principle of unity in our Society is the Superior General. But for a certain time now, you have been trying - each one of you in his own way - to impose on him your point of view, even in the form of threats, and even in public. This dialectic between the truth and the faith on the one side and authority on the other is contrary to the spirit of the priesthood. He might at least have hoped that you were trying to understand the arguments driving him to act as he has acted these last few years in accordance with the will of divine Providence".
So, as you can see, there is total disagreement. Bishop Fellay continues his secret dealings with Rome and when the cat is out of the bag and his second assistant, Fr. Nely exposes him to the French district, and Rome tells him the signed docuмent would be released as promised, he backs off and states that he has to consult with the General Chapter.
Before this fiasco, + Fellay had announced that the General Chapter would not discuss the deal, it would only serve to lay down the new statues from Rome. So he thought it was a done deal. (I think everyone in this forum should know what the "new statues" entailed because it was discussed.) After the fiasco, he changed his mind and announced to Rome that he needed to consult with the General Chapter.
Bishop Fellay could not have possibly changed his mind so quickly, even if he repents of having nearly destroyed the work of Archbishop Lefebvre, could not be trusted and all the finances and properties owned by the SSPX should be taken out of his hands and put in reliable hands.
I hope the General Chapter also notified Rome that they are damping the 1962 Indult missal and send a copy of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificuм and UE in shreads.
-
Beyond the General Chapter, Bishop Fellay is certainly not popular. It's not about popularity though. The vast majority were against a deal and this was made clear.
-
To summarise the thread though, Ethelred is most realistic and accurate. A fair summary of recent events.
-
Beyond the General Chapter, Bishop Fellay is certainly not popular. It's not about popularity though. The vast majority were against a deal and this was made clear.
Well, the deal failed. The three bishops published a letter against Fellay. There was open critcism by more than a few priests. Popularity does not count in the general Chapter but it will count if pople stop showing up at mass. Benedict XVI, according to many won't last that much longer, don't think the deal can be revived before a new Pope is elected. I'm almost inclined to say we won this battle even if the war is still on.
If his position is so secure why wasn't there a deal, don't tell me he doesn't look like a fool after wasting all this money and time.
-
Beyond the General Chapter, Bishop Fellay is certainly not popular. It's not about popularity though. The vast majority were against a deal and this was made clear.
Well, the deal failed. The three bishops published a letter against Fellay. There was open critcism by more than a few priests. Popularity does not count in the general Chapter but it will count if pople stop showing up at mass. Benedict XVI, according to many won't last that much longer, don't think the deal can be revived before a new Pope is elected. I'm almost inclined to say we won this battle even if the war is still on.
If his position is so secure why wasn't there a deal, don't tell me he doesn't look like a fool after wasting all this money and time.
These are good points. No I don't think he is a fool either. He's actually very conniving. At a minimum, this brought into the light those who are ready to unite with NewRome, laid the groundwork for a future division, and given the appearance to those already ensnared in the NO that BXVI is some stalwart Pope of 'unity' (liberalism) and tradition.
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Well, the deal failed.
But not because the SSPX leader behind the planned deal wanted it to fail. The deal is just postponed. Because the leaked three bishops' letter and their supporters' public opposition made the SSPX leader uncomfortable. He's a politician and strategist.
However, let's not confuse cause and effect: The deal is just the problem's effect, not the problem's cause -- which is the modernistic mindset of Bp Fellay and the 29:9 superiors standing behind him.
So, the cause for the SSPX' problem, i.e. its suicidal situation, is still there and after the recent Chapter it's clear the problem is even bigger (29:9) than many thought!
Well, Bp Fellay still favours an agreement between the SSPX and Newrome. His public words to the US-American News Agency proved it (analogously he said: Vatican II is not so bad, and we had a wrong understanding of the Vatican II docuмents, etc. In effect he said that Archbishop Lefebvre was wrong for all the years and in particular in 1988).
Since Bp Fellay didn't took back his modernistic statements but just sacked those who rightly pointed at them (like our good Bishop Williamson), the planned "Operation ѕυιcιdє" of the SSPX can happen anytime -- until Bp Fellay converts to the traditional Catholic Faith OR leaves the SSPX together with his 29:9 men. This is the only solution, which a postponed deal is not.
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Illegitimi non carborundum!
Now is not the time to lay down your arms in despair, and it is certainly not time to rest on our laurels. What we just saw was merely a skirmish, the real battle lies ahead.
While the traitors remain in charge, a great service is provided by proclaiming loudly and regularly through our ranks that we know what +Fellay and his ilk are and we don't and won't drink the Kool-Aid. Educate your fellow parishioners for charity's sake.
Consider holding back your contributions until the train gets back on the tracks. This will let Men$ingen know Whose standard we march under.
-
He didn't fire Bp Williamson, he excluded him from the General Chapter, they released statement saying he was still a Bishop with the SSPX. Fr. Chazal and Pfeiffer are still employed as well. In fact Bp Williamson's situation has improved quite a bit over the last few months, he's allowed to move about freely, excluding him from the Chapter is hardly the worst thing Fellay has done to Bishop Williamson. In fact excluding him was the least he could do seeing Bp. Williamson sabotaged his little sell-out plan. Maybe this is all part of Fellay's master plan, if it is his plan or maybe his plan really did fail and the only card he had left to play was exclude Bishop Williamson from the General Chapter.
-
Illegitimi non carborundum!
Now is not the time to lay down your arms in despair, and it is certainly not time to rest on our laurels. What we just saw was merely a skirmish, the real battle lies ahead.
While the traitors remain in charge, a great service is provided by proclaiming loudly and regularly through our ranks that we know what +Fellay and his ilk are and we don't and won't drink the Kool-Aid. Educate your fellow parishioners for charity's sake.
Consider holding back your contributions until the train gets back on the tracks. This will let Men$ingen know Whose standard we march under.
Thank you for that, I agree 100%.
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Well, the deal failed.
But not because the SSPX leader behind the planned deal wanted it to fail. The deal is just postponed. Because the leaked three bishops' letter and their supporters' public opposition made the SSPX leader uncomfortable. He's a politician and strategist.
However, let's not confuse cause and effect: The deal is just the problem's effect, not the problem's cause -- which is the modernistic mindset of Bp Fellay and the 29:9 superiors standing behind him.
So, the cause for the SSPX' problem, i.e. its suicidal situation, is still there and after the recent Chapter it's clear the problem is even bigger (29:9) than many thought!
Well, Bp Fellay still favours an agreement between the SSPX and Newrome. His public words to the US-American News Agency proved it (analogously he said: Vatican II is not so bad, and we had a wrong understanding of the Vatican II docuмents, etc. In effect he said that Archbishop Lefebvre was wrong for all the years and in particular in 1988).
Since Bp Fellay didn't took back his modernistic statements but just sacked those who rightly pointed at them (like our good Bishop Williamson), the planned "Operation ѕυιcιdє" of the SSPX can happen anytime -- until Bp Fellay converts to the traditional Catholic Faith OR leaves the SSPX together with his 29:9 men. This is the only solution, which a postponed deal is not.
Well stated, Ethelred. It's disturbing to think 29 voted that way but it's a reminder to keep vigilant. The 29 isn't representative of all priests and laity who oppose the deal.Bishop Fellay is holding back on a deal for now because he faced such opposition.
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I'd just like to say that I really appreciate everyone's comments here, because
you collectively are to me as a voice of sanity in a crazy world. So my
hat's off to you! (http://i2.ifrm.com/16087/138/emo/smiley7.gif)
Please allow me to add a shimmer of context to this. I spoke to a friend yesterday
after Mass, and mentioned to him how the SSPX seems to be on the verge of
a major division, with priests who defend Tradition being perhaps separated
from the Society, along with their faithful who will not abandon them in this time
of trial. But the real estate, and the hand-picked District Superiors are in the
hip pocket of +Fellay, who is gung-ho on making a "deal" with Rome. His response
was categorical: all the SSPX priests are very traditional and solid priests, and
there is no danger of any split happening, and everything is fine. Period.
I mention this example because I think his attitude is not uncommon.
I asked him, "What about the revision of the 1962 missal that's coming out in
December, which the Society is going to be ordered to use by +Fellay and his
hip-pocket lackeys?" He didn't know anything about any revision of the missal,
nor was he interested to find out from me. He is the expert, you see, and I am
not the one to inform HIM. Wrong way street.
Then I told him that there is a sub-contractor, hired by the Vatican, to print the
new edition of the missal, which will have many changed prayers in it, and
that Angelus Press is not printing any of these. He said he didn't think there
is any such printing going on, and that even if there was, it wouldn't be a
problem for the SSPX, because they won't be changing anything, so there!
I think it's worthwhile to go around and ask your friends a few questions, to get
their responses right now, when they're so confident to dish them out, so that
after a few months, you can have the option of pulling those out and tell them,
"Well, in July of this year, when I asked you A, B and C, you told me D, E and
F, but now we see that's not happening at all, and that A, B and C have quite
different answers, do they not? Perhaps in this way, your friends can learn
from their mistakes, before it's too late.
And then again, maybe not.
-
It seems like +Fellay used his first 12 years to gain the trust of the clergy and laity, and the first half of his second 12 years to put like-minded superiors in place. It's going to be very difficult to remove him.
Well observed.
It will take an organized effort of +Tissier and +Galarreta, along with priests they know they can trust to come up with a solution. +Williamson will have to sit back a bit and let them work it out. As for the laity... we need to pray many rosaries and do penances. Just my thoughts on the matter.
So the "organised resistance" will be minimal, if it will be at all. I'm afraid the SSPX founded by Archbishop Lefebvre is dead now officially. Its agony was visible for some years (and the year 2009 being an eye-opener). The society has done a good job, though. Well, our modern time doesn't deserve another Archbishop Lefebvre society but another Flood. If we observe the signs of our time we see there is a storm brewing. I think we now enter the time of real suffering. First for us Catholics, soon for the entire world. May God have mercy upon us.
Ethelred... sadly, you are right. It would be a last ditch effort to root out those who want the accord, which at best, would only delay the inevitable, and is most likely predestined for failure. Our Lord is sifting the wheat from the chaff. These are bad times-- the proof is that so many "traditionalists"--clergy and laity alike-- have thrown in the towel, and are almost eager to return to "new-rome." It will be back to the catacombs for us, where there will only be pockets of Traditional Catholics here and there with few priests to spread out among us. Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
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Well, the deal failed.
But not because the SSPX leader behind the planned deal wanted it to fail. The deal is just postponed. Because the leaked three bishops' letter and their supporters' public opposition made the SSPX leader uncomfortable. He's a politician and strategist.
This is entirely according to +Fellay's character. He has been "campaigning" for
this planned "deal" for the past 18 years, with no apologies. I personally saw him
give a 2-1/2 hour-long "conference" in Arcadia's Queen of Angels parish basement
where the gist of the topic was his personal infatuation with the "plum" (his word)
of returning to Rome. Without his literally saying so, it would appear that this is
his lifelong goal, and one may suspect it is the very reason that he was willing
to be consecrated bishop, so that he could maneuver into a position where he
could push this goal with impunity, which is exactly what he has done.
However, let's not confuse cause and effect: The deal is just the problem's effect, not the problem's cause -- [the cause] is the modernistic mindset of Bp Fellay and the 29:9 superiors standing behind him.
So, the cause for the SSPX' problem, i.e. its suicidal situation, is still there, and after the recent Chapter it's clear: the problem is even bigger (29:9) than many thought!
I want to think that some of the 29 were just voting that way so as to make it
seem that they are cooperative with +Fellay, for the time being. But that's just
wishful thinking. It might be time to face the facts.
Well, Bp Fellay still favours an agreement between the SSPX and Newrome. His public words to the US-American News Agency proved it (analogously he said: Vatican II is not so bad, and we had a wrong understanding of the Vatican II docuмents, etc. In effect he said that Archbishop Lefebvre was wrong for all the years and in particular in 1988).
Don't forget, in the same scripted interview, he asserted that the religious
liberty of Vatican II was "very limited!" Fr. Pfeiffer aptly called out that lie by
saying when you go to Panda Express you get "limited rice." But when you go to
a real Chinese restaurant (like Panda Inn!) you get all the rice you ask for.
Actually, he named some other restaurant I have never heard of. The point is,
whether the rice is limited or whatever, rice is still rice.
Since Bp Fellay didn't [take] back his modernistic statements, but just sacked those who rightly pointed at them (like our good Bishop Williamson), the planned "Operation ѕυιcιdє" of the SSPX can happen anytime -- until Bp Fellay converts to the traditional Catholic Faith OR leaves the SSPX together with his 29:9 men. This is the only solution, which a postponed deal is not.
It certainly looks as though +Fellay is not "converting," for his entrenched
Modernism is just that -- not "limited" as he says of religious liberty. He went to
Panda Inn for his Modernism! But it's still Modernism.
And +Fellay isn't leaving the SSPX, either. He and his lackeys are staying right
where they are. God, however, may have other plans.
-
I'd just like to say that I really appreciate everyone's comments here, because
you collectively are to me as a voice of sanity in a crazy world. So my
hat's off to you! (http://i2.ifrm.com/16087/138/emo/smiley7.gif)
Please allow me to add a shimmer of context to this. I spoke to a friend yesterday
after Mass, and mentioned to him how the SSPX seems to be on the verge of
a major division, with priests who defend Tradition being perhaps separated
from the Society, along with their faithful who will not abandon them in this time
of trial. But the real estate, and the hand-picked District Superiors are in the
hip pocket of +Fellay, who is gung-ho on making a "deal" with Rome. His response
was categorical: all the SSPX priests are very traditional and solid priests, and
there is no danger of any split happening, and everything is fine. Period.
I mention this example because I think his attitude is not uncommon.
I asked him, "What about the revision of the 1962 missal that's coming out in
December, which the Society is going to be ordered to use by +Fellay and his
hip-pocket lackeys?" He didn't know anything about any revision of the missal,
nor was he interested to find out from me. He is the expert, you see, and I am
not the one to inform HIM. Wrong way street.
Then I told him that there is a sub-contractor, hired by the Vatican, to print the
new edition of the missal, which will have many changed prayers in it, and
that Angelus Press is not printing any of these. He said he didn't think there
is any such printing going on, and that even if there was, it wouldn't be a
problem for the SSPX, because they won't be changing anything, so there!
I think it's worthwhile to go around and ask your friends a few questions, to get
their responses right now, when they're so confident to dish them out, so that
after a few months, you can have the option of pulling those out and tell them,
"Well, in July of this year, when I asked you A, B and C, you told me D, E and
F, but now we see that's not happening at all, and that A, B and C have quite
different answers, do they not? Perhaps in this way, your friends can learn
from their mistakes, before it's too late.
And then again, maybe not.
Lamentably there are those who attend the SSPX in Ireland and still make purchases from EWTN so there are allsorts attending chapels.Sure, I had SSPX attendee's in the past encouraging me to vote for Declan Ganley, who affiliated his organisation Libertas to the Simon Wiesenthal Center.It doesn't help then when you see articles being scrubbed from websites and the treatment of Bishop Williamson.
Whilst a majority did line up and rebuke the clerics when the Bishop was threatened with expulsion or how the 'h0Ɩ0cαųst' is beyond discussion, it can't be ignored some did regard the episode as "imprudent" on his behalf.
Personally I believe priests should use pre 1962 missals.
-
all the SSPX priests are very traditional and solid priests
Are the 29 who voted to exclude Bishop Williamson "very traditional and solid priests"? I realise Bishop Fellay has surrounded himself with those who share his view but to be fair to them they haven't celebrated the New Mass yet?
These that claim Bishop Williamson has been disobedient have still not pointed out where he is against the doctrine and church teachings? It is generally it is his right and duty as a Bishop to continue his weekly comments. He has a right and duty to preach and teach. He is a validly consecrated Bishop.
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all the SSPX priests are very traditional and solid priests
Are the 29 who voted to exclude Bishop Williamson "very traditional and solid priests"? I realise Bishop Fellay has surrounded himself with those who share his view but to be fair to them they haven't celebrated the New Mass yet?
These that claim Bishop Williamson has been disobedient have still not pointed out where he is against the doctrine and church teachings? It is generally it is his right and duty as a Bishop to continue his weekly comments. He has a right and duty to preach and teach. He is a validly consecrated Bishop.
Were the SSPX names of the 29:9 vote given out ?
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Hi Mar,
Here is the link
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Fr-Jos-Pfeiffer-SSPX-Sermon-Feast-of-the-Most-Precious-Blood
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Hi Mar,
Here is the link
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Fr-Jos-Pfeiffer-SSPX-Sermon-Feast-of-the-Most-Precious-Blood
This is Fr Pfeiffers talk on the Feast of the Precious Blood for you Mar!
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Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...
They can do it. They're bishops. They can consecrate new bishops. And they can preach. Even if it's only to one congregation.
What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.
You must agree, we are seeing the SSPX disintegrate before our eyes. The
nice PR piece +Fellay cranked out does not address the truth; it's just window
dressing for the "holidays" of summer, so worldly followers can enjoy their
vacations and feel good. "Everything's fine." I actually heard that said
about this.
So, of course, someone who wants to think that "everything's fine" will read
+Fellay's Propaganda piece and latch onto it with a vice grip, saying, "YOU SEE,
I TOLD YOU SO: EVERYTHING'S FINE." And then go on vacation and have a
nice time, "living like I'm 21 again."
In the Mass, we pray, "I will go unto the altar of God: to God who giveth joy
to my youth." That comes from Psalms. We have to read it at every Mass our
whole lives because it takes a lifetime to learn what it means.
When +ABL founded a seminary, it wasn't the first building project he had
undertaken and finished. And every time he said Mass, he prayed those words
of the Psalms, and the altar servers repeated them: twice.
When he founded the Society, far too many Catholics yawned and paid no
attention. They were too busy watching Bonanza, Red Skelton, The Brady
Bunch and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Oh, and Lassie: they were too
busy watching Lassie, to notice that a living saint was handing down the
Tradition he had received.
Is it any different today? Everything's fine: let's go to the beach!
(You'll have to forgive me, I live in L.A.!)
Bishop +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta are not helpless, for they are bishops,
and they can do things, as you say. They can consecrate new bishops. That
would be looked upon as an act of WAR by +Fellay, however, because he is
subservient already to the wiles of B16, even if a deal is NOT signed.
We read about how heavy the weight was that bore on +ABL when he made
the consecrations. And we can see it in the photographs of that day. Now, we
see the same weight pressing on "The Three," but I must say, I don't see it
on +Fellay. He doesn't seem to be concerned. To him, "Everything's fine," etc.
It seems to me, that on our part, we can send our support, both prayers and
material, to the good bishops, in this time of trial. Notice, they are not asking
for us to do that, probably because the "iron fist" that came down on various
priests already would come down on them with a vengeance. But we don't
have to wait for an invitation. We can do our part as we see fit at this time.
We have the jurisdiction over our own substance, and we can decide how we
are going to contribute to the support of the Church. Do we send contributions
to the Ecclesia Dei Commission, or the USCCB? What about Focolare or the
NeoCatechumenal Way? Do you contribute to the NeoCatechumenal Way?
So why should we support +Fellay as he equally subverts the Society as do
these others subvert the Church?
-
Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...
They can do it. They're bishops. They can consecrate new bishops. And they can preach. Even if it's only to one congregation.
What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.
You must agree, we are seeing the SSPX disintegrate before our eyes. The
nice PR piece +Fellay cranked out does not address the truth; it's just window
dressing for the "holidays" of summer, so worldly followers can enjoy their
vacations and feel good. "Everything's fine." I actually heard that said
about this.
So, of course, someone who wants to think that "everything's fine" will read
+Fellay's Propaganda piece and latch onto it with a vice grip, saying, "YOU SEE,
I TOLD YOU SO: EVERYTHING'S FINE." And then go on vacation and have a
nice time, "living like I'm 21 again."
In the Mass, we pray, "I will go unto the altar of God: to God who giveth joy
to my youth." That comes from Psalms. We have to read it at every Mass our
whole lives because it takes a lifetime to learn what it means.
When +ABL founded a seminary, it wasn't the first building project he had
undertaken and finished. And every time he said Mass, he prayed those words
of the Psalms, and the altar servers repeated them: twice.
When he founded the Society, far too many Catholics yawned and paid no
attention. They were too busy watching Bonanza, Red Skelton, The Brady
Bunch and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Oh, and Lassie: they were too
busy watching Lassie, to notice that a living saint was handing down the
Tradition he had received.
Is it any different today? Everything's fine: let's go to the beach!
(You'll have to forgive me, I live in L.A.!)
Bishop +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta are not helpless, for they are bishops,
and they can do things, as you say. They can consecrate new bishops. That
would be looked upon as an act of WAR by +Fellay, however, because he is
subservient already to the wiles of B16, even if a deal is NOT signed.
We read about how heavy the weight was that bore on +ABL when he made
the consecrations. And we can see it in the photographs of that day. Now, we
see the same weight pressing on "The Three," but I must say, I don't see it
on +Fellay. He doesn't seem to be concerned. To him, "Everything's fine," etc.
It seems to me, that on our part, we can send our support, both prayers and
material, to the good bishops, in this time of trial. Notice, they are not asking
for us to do that, probably because the "iron fist" that came down on various
priests already would come down on them with a vengeance. But we don't
have to wait for an invitation. We can do our part as we see fit at this time.
We have the jurisdiction over our own substance, and we can decide how we
are going to contribute to the support of the Church. Do we send contributions
to the Ecclesia Dei Commission, or the USCCB? What about Focolare or the
NeoCatechumenal Way? Do you contribute to the NeoCatechumenal Way?
So why should we support +Fellay as he equally subverts the Society as do
these others subvert the Church?
I agree with you!
Its still possible for the SSPX resistance to take the inititiative, to help save Catholic tradition. If Fellay refuses to resign, the 3-Bishops should consecrate more bishops and secede from the corrupted neoSSPX. It would be a daring move that Bp. Fellay and Max Krah would find hard to counter.
The SSPX faitful can support the priests and bishops like we always have in homes and temporary accomodations. It would be a very humble and true practice of our Faith. Bp. Fellay is betting we'll follow him on the "easy road"
to Rome and give-up our Faith.
-
Maybe Bp Tissier de Mallerais together with a few faithful priests (like Fr Pfeiffer?) will establish a new kind of priestly group or such, but also this is only vague and very difficult. Bishop Williamson seems to think he's too old and isolated to start a new Archbishop Lefebvre group...
They can do it. They're bishops. They can consecrate new bishops. And they can preach. Even if it's only to one congregation.
What they mustn't do is let Bishop Fellay be regarded as a legitimate heir to the Archbishop.
You must agree, we are seeing the SSPX disintegrate before our eyes. The
nice PR piece +Fellay cranked out does not address the truth; it's just window
dressing for the "holidays" of summer, so worldly followers can enjoy their
vacations and feel good. "Everything's fine." I actually heard that said
about this.
So, of course, someone who wants to think that "everything's fine" will read
+Fellay's Propaganda piece and latch onto it with a vice grip, saying, "YOU SEE,
I TOLD YOU SO: EVERYTHING'S FINE." And then go on vacation and have a
nice time, "living like I'm 21 again."
In the Mass, we pray, "I will go unto the altar of God: to God who giveth joy
to my youth." That comes from Psalms. We have to read it at every Mass our
whole lives because it takes a lifetime to learn what it means.
When +ABL founded a seminary, it wasn't the first building project he had
undertaken and finished. And every time he said Mass, he prayed those words
of the Psalms, and the altar servers repeated them: twice.
When he founded the Society, far too many Catholics yawned and paid no
attention. They were too busy watching Bonanza, Red Skelton, The Brady
Bunch and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Oh, and Lassie: they were too
busy watching Lassie, to notice that a living saint was handing down the
Tradition he had received.
Is it any different today? Everything's fine: let's go to the beach!
(You'll have to forgive me, I live in L.A.!)
Bishop +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta are not helpless, for they are bishops,
and they can do things, as you say. They can consecrate new bishops. That
would be looked upon as an act of WAR by +Fellay, however, because he is
subservient already to the wiles of B16, even if a deal is NOT signed.
We read about how heavy the weight was that bore on +ABL when he made
the consecrations. And we can see it in the photographs of that day. Now, we
see the same weight pressing on "The Three," but I must say, I don't see it
on +Fellay. He doesn't seem to be concerned. To him, "Everything's fine," etc.
It seems to me, that on our part, we can send our support, both prayers and
material, to the good bishops, in this time of trial. Notice, they are not asking
for us to do that, probably because the "iron fist" that came down on various
priests already would come down on them with a vengeance. But we don't
have to wait for an invitation. We can do our part as we see fit at this time.
We have the jurisdiction over our own substance, and we can decide how we
are going to contribute to the support of the Church. Do we send contributions
to the Ecclesia Dei Commission, or the USCCB? What about Focolare or the
NeoCatechumenal Way? Do you contribute to the NeoCatechumenal Way?
So why should we support +Fellay as he equally subverts the Society as do
these others subvert the Church?
I agree with you!
Its still possible for the SSPX resistance to take the inititiative, to help save Catholic tradition. If Fellay refuses to resign, the 3-Bishops should consecrate more bishops and secede from the corrupted neoSSPX. It would be a daring move that Bp. Fellay and Max Krah would find hard to counter.
The SSPX faitful can support the priests and bishops like we always have in homes and temporary accomodations. It would be a very humble and true practice of our Faith. Bp. Fellay is betting we'll follow him on the "easy road"
to Rome and give-up our Faith.
Yes, to continue the work of Archbishop Lefebvre they should consecrate bishops for every Traditional order: Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines... I suggested this before on another thread. Every order could administer also the sacrament of Confirmation to their supporters and help the three bishops in their work. Less expensive than traveling for a modest new, but strongly Traditional SSPX truly working for the glory of God and the salvation of souls.
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A suitable response from the the 3 to the 1(and the office help).
God quit you in his mercy! Hear your sentence.
You have conspired against the SSPX,
Join'd with an enemy proclaim'd and from his coffers
Received the golden earnest of the death of the SSPX;
Wherein you would have sold the SSPX to slaughter,
The SSPX princes and his peers to servitude,
The SSPX subjects to oppression and contempt
And the whole SSPX into desolation.
Touching our person seek we no revenge;
But the SSPX'x safety must so tender,
Whose ruin you have sought, that to God's laws
We do deliver you. Get you therefore hence,
Poor miserable wretches, to your death:
The taste whereof, God of his mercy give
You patience to endure, and true repentance
Of all your dear offences! Bear them hence.
~ Shakespeare (Henry V)
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A suitable response from the the 3 to the 1(and the office help).
God quit you in his mercy! Hear your sentence.
You have conspired against the SSPX,
Join'd with an enemy proclaim'd and from his coffers
Received the golden earnest of the death of the SSPX;
Wherein you would have sold the SSPX to slaughter,
The SSPX princes and his peers to servitude,
The SSPX subjects to oppression and contempt
And the whole SSPX into desolation.
Touching our person seek we no revenge;
But the SSPX'x safety must so tender,
Whose ruin you have sought, that to God's laws
We do deliver you. Get you therefore hence,
Poor miserable wretches, to your death:
The taste whereof, God of his mercy give
You patience to endure, and true repentance
Of all your dear offences! Bear them hence.
~ Shakespeare (Henry V)
Bravo!!! :applause:
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Well stated, Ethelred. It's disturbing to think 29 voted that way but it's a reminder to keep vigilant. The 29 isn't representative of all priests and laity who oppose the deal.Bishop Fellay is holding back on a deal for now because he faced such opposition.
Thats what I meant by the 2 steps forward and one step back I referred to in my post.
The communists use this tactic all the time. If any opposition is sensed, they retret a step and wait till the cilmate is more favorable (more brainwashing needed). Remember by taking 2 steps ahead, even if they retreat a step, they are still one step ahead. When the time is right, they will take 2 steps ahead again. The process continues until all are docile, and ALL opposition is removed.
When will the time be right for the 2 steps ahead ? My guess is when they eliminate all fierce opposers. Thats the first phase, as I commented in a recent post.
The fierce opposers wont stay in the SSPX anyway. If they do, they will be marginalized and watched very closely and every word they say monitered.
This happened to me at an SSPX Chapel.
They chapel I attended knew that I was a sede. They interrogated me when I arrived until I told them where I last went to mass. From that point on......they watched and listed. Parishioners reported to the priest if I even mentioned sedevacantism. Very communist environment. 7 years later a bulldog priest was sent to the chapel, I believe to root out all sedes, and intimidate any parishioners that had any thoughts to attend sede masses . I then was booted, and 2 other families badly intimidated. One family moved away. The father of the second family was put under "obedience" by that priest to never attend the sede mass in the area.
This will also happen to ALL of you here, unless you are silent. If you speak out about ANYTHING contrary to the establishment, they will boot you too. Hope you have the grace to leave before it happens.
Folks, this is SO TERRIBLE!
Thanks Ethel for all your comments. You are an invaluable part of this forum!
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A suitable response from the the 3 to the 1(and the office help).
God quit you in his mercy! Hear your sentence.
You have conspired against the SSPX,
Join'd with an enemy proclaim'd and from his coffers
Received the golden earnest of the death of the SSPX;
Wherein you would have sold the SSPX to slaughter,
The SSPX princes and his peers to servitude,
The SSPX subjects to oppression and contempt
And the whole SSPX into desolation.
Touching our person seek we no revenge;
But the SSPX'x safety must so tender,
Whose ruin you have sought, that to God's laws
We do deliver you. Get you therefore hence,
Poor miserable wretches, to your death:
The taste whereof, God of his mercy give
You patience to endure, and true repentance
Of all your dear offences! Bear them hence.
~ Shakespeare (Henry V)
Bravo!!! :applause:
:applause: :applause:
Awsome! Who would have thought that Shakespere would have such an appropriate quote for this situation!
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all the SSPX priests are very traditional and solid priests
Are the 29 who voted to exclude Bishop Williamson "very traditional and solid priests"? I realise Bishop Fellay has surrounded himself with those who share his view but to be fair to them they haven't celebrated the New Mass yet?
These that claim Bishop Williamson has been disobedient have still not pointed out where he is against the doctrine and church teachings? It is generally it is his right and duty as a Bishop to continue his weekly comments. He has a right and duty to preach and teach. He is a validly consecrated Bishop.
Were the SSPX names of the 29:9 vote given out ?
Aren't you too young to smoke? :judge:
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Perhaps The Bishops and their respective groupies do not, either. Perhaps they are on a journey, and instead of picking it apart and wasting time causing scandalous talk, we ought to spend more time in earnest prayer for God's Holy Will.
I suppose this is the stuff that sells papers, er, forums advertising; but, I suggest we deal in the facts the best we can substantiate them pray much, and stop looking like self-appointed authoities who really do not know what's going on , as we appear to 'lookers."
There's more yet to unfold, and I believe our prayers are much needed instead of our useless rant. Really. Useless. Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson probably could care less.
OK, I'm ready for my close-up now, Mr. DeMille. :faint:
Beautifully stated, Clelia. A few have been saying this for months, but it falls on deaf ears. The sensationalists, rumor-mongers, and speculators/scandalous talk/useless rant, would have to *gasp* close up shop. To do as you suggest would mean putting aside ego and self-importance.
In the end who of us can truly say we prayed long enough, sacrificed hard enough? I am guilty too and I expect to have to do much penance for my failings and shortcomings.
That is a non sequitur. It does not follow that we should close our eyes to signs of an impending storm because we have not prayed long or hard enough.
Was Archbishop Lefebvre entreated to do nothing but pray, pay, and obey forty years ago? If so, it is a good thing he did not listen.
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We may smell smoke; but we need to know exactly where the fire is so we can put it out.
There is nothing we can do without facts and even then, we can only act if given an opportunity. We cannot make supposition, or rant about either facts or truth, and make progress.
We must pray for light, understanding, and direction before shooting our mouths off about things that we do not know happened or not.
We can only act upon absolute truth. All we have are bits of news coupled with many opinions, here. People want to throw Bp Fellay under the bus, give Bp Williamson a crown, and starve The Society's Chapel and Schools, because they are angry about reports that do not add up or tell all.
So far, a lot of nothing resulted.
:reporter: Horse shoes and hand grenades.
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There is nothing we can do without facts and even then, we can only act if given an opportunity. We cannot make supposition, or rant about either facts or truth, and make progress.
We have facts. Forums help us to find and digest these facts.
We know that Bishop Fellay is pursuing a deal with rome considered harmful and dangerous by the other three bishops. We do not know many of the details, but we can see that is because +Fellay has chosen to operate under the veil of secrecy although we have not been told why.
We know that Bishop Fellay admitted changing his position on the Vatican II text concerning religious liberty as a result of the talks with the Vatican:
http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.com/2012/05/rorate-already-passed-this-on-as-have.html
Bishop Fellay's picked man in the US, Fr. Rostand, cried "dishonest" in a subsequent interview against those interpreting +Fellay's admission as a change of position. In the interviewer's follow-up question of whether the SSPX had changed its position, Fr. Rostand could not answer and changed the subject:
http://www.gloria.tv/?media=300906
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In large part, Bishop Fellay's problem is a PR one -- and it's of his own making. There has been too much secrecy, hidden negotiations, flimsy publicity stunts, etc. The Catholic Faith and Tradition should stand on their own. They should be proclaimed in broad daylight, in full view of both friend and foe. There is no reason for deals, compromises and agreements or any sort with modernists. The current leadership in Menzingen has squandered the good will built by Archbishop Lefebrve and others for over 40 years. Bishop Fellay's actions, regardless of their true intent (good or bad) have been clumsy and ham-handed. If nothing else, he should be replaced as superior general on the basis of incompetence alone.
I knew the Society was in trouble a few years ago when they mailed me a flyer for an "active retirement community" for traditional Catholics that they planned to build in Oregon. Since when are priestly societies involved in speculative real estate development? The whole idea stunk like a kettle of fish.
Personally, I will never again have full confidence in the SSPX so long as Bernard Fellay is its leader.
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That is a non sequitur. It does not follow that we should close our eyes to signs of an impending storm because we have not prayed long or hard enough.
Was Archbishop Lefebvre entreated to do nothing but pray, pay, and obey forty years ago? If so, it is a good thing he did not listen.
That's why Our Lord told us: watch and pray. (Not pray and watch, but watch and pray.)
And the man of God, Bishop Williamson always says this, too:
Watch and pray
Watch and pray
Fifteen mysteries every day
Dear Emerentiana, you're right: there's a communistic atmosphere in the SSPX by now. Several anti-modernistic SSPX priests from various European countries say exactly that. So it's not the barmy idea of some Internet nuts, but reports of our brave priests from the front. No down-votes on this forum can cause to vanish this reality. In the parishes there's a similar atmosphere rising. We who support the anti-modernistic SSPX priests and bishops are now under observation.
Those who experienced Krah beginning with 2005+ , already noticed this communistic atmosphere back then. But let's not blame him alone. He is just the henchman. The men who recruited him and and who're his business partners: Bp Fellay, Fr Pfluger, Fr Schmidberger, and some more. They have the same state of mind. That is the reason why they use a man who talks and acts like a STASI officer (STASI = State Security of the former GDR aka communistic East Germany.)
The brave Fr Pfeiffer said in his latest sermon from 15 July 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TTdYykuXSU), that the bad fruits of dealing with New-Rome is (amongst others) lies and terror. We see it in the SSPX now. Menzingen brings terror upon the faithful priests and bishops. What else can we expect from Bp Fellay who's in a state of diabolical disorientation, as Fr Pfeiffer described it in his famous Pentecost sermon?
So, let's watch and pray.
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The whole tenor of society seems to more demonic by the day.
One can read the novels of the 19th Century and the villains seem like tame men compared to the types we're dealing with now.
We're dealing with the spiritual heirs of the Marquis de Sade and 1789.
Look at Cardinal Daneels and his files from the Dutroux case.
We are dealing with wicked, knavish men, and ruthlessly cynical clerics who employ them.
And worst of all the laity have become lax and corrupted in their thinking.
And then there are the pagans who are becoming like ogres and the men of sodom, and they are the ones with the predominant influence over the young.
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I knew the Society was in trouble a few years ago when they mailed me a flyer for an "active retirement community" for traditional Catholics that they planned to build in Oregon. Since when are priestly societies involved in speculative real estate development? The whole idea stunk like a kettle of fish.
Perhaps another ghettoization campaign, as with some rural towns where SSPX represents a bulk of the economy? It adds additional incentive to "loyalty".
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I knew the Society was in trouble a few years ago when they mailed me a flyer for an "active retirement community" for traditional Catholics that they planned to build in Oregon. Since when are priestly societies involved in speculative real estate development? The whole idea stunk like a kettle of fish.
Perhaps another ghettoization campaign, as with some rural towns where SSPX represents a bulk of the economy? It adds additional incentive to "loyalty".
Ah yes! and a fertile field in which to cultivate legacies.
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Well stated, Ethelred. It's disturbing to think 29 voted that way but it's a reminder to keep vigilant. The 29 isn't representative of all priests and laity who oppose the deal.Bishop Fellay is holding back on a deal for now because he faced such opposition.
Thats what I meant by the 2 steps forward and one step back I referred to in my post.
The communists use this tactic all the time. If any opposition is sensed, they retret a step and wait till the cilmate is more favorable (more brainwashing needed). Remember by taking 2 steps ahead, even if they retreat a step, they are still one step ahead. When the time is right, they will take 2 steps ahead again. The process continues until all are docile, and ALL opposition is removed.
When will the time be right for the 2 steps ahead ? My guess is when they eliminate all fierce opposers. Thats the first phase, as I commented in a recent post.
The fierce opposers wont stay in the SSPX anyway. If they do, they will be marginalized and watched very closely and every word they say monitered.
This happened to me at an SSPX Chapel.
They chapel I attended knew that I was a sede. They interrogated me when I arrived until I told them where I last went to mass. From that point on......they watched and listed. Parishioners reported to the priest if I even mentioned sedevacantism. Very communist environment. 7 years later a bulldog priest was sent to the chapel, I believe to root out all sedes, and intimidate any parishioners that had any thoughts to attend sede masses . I then was booted, and 2 other families badly intimidated. One family moved away. The father of the second family was put under "obedience" by that priest to never attend the sede mass in the area.
This will also happen to ALL of you here, unless you are silent. If you speak out about ANYTHING contrary to the establishment, they will boot you too. Hope you have the grace to leave before it happens.
Folks, this is SO TERRIBLE!
Thanks Ethel for all your comments. You are an invaluable part of this forum!
The truth is "sedevacantists" don't exist.
They are merely Catholics, Traditional and Faithful (some a little rabid at times, but not any more rabid than many an anti-sedevacantist) that can't imagine that a material/formal career heretic/apostate can be Pope. A theologically tenable position. They are acting in accord with their conscience, they can't do otherwise.
Anyway, it is not a matter of faith!!! We really need to be charitable towards them... in the end they might be right.
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Those who experienced Krah beginning with 2005+ , already noticed this communistic atmosphere back then. But let's not blame him alone. He is just the henchman. The men who recruited him and and who're his business partners: Bp Fellay, Fr Pfluger, Fr Schmidberger, and some more. They have the same state of mind. That is the reason why they use a man who talks and acts like a STASI officer (STASI = State Security of the former GDR aka communistic East Germany.)
The legitimate questions about Krah are left unanswered by Menzingen like so many others. In a healthier environment, leaders would feel obligated to at least acknowledge such concerns of their followers. Unfortunately, the predominant weakness of modern society leaves most people, even trads, incapable of resolutely defending their interests.
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Philomena and Clelia,
Reading your comments, I have a question. We see the lengths Fr Rostand went to to try convince people that facts were rumours. Are you going to go through life convincing yourself facts are rumours? Can you outline why Fr Rostand, an alter Christus went to this trouble?
Also Bishop Fellay has been caught out telling lies. Why you seek to defend a liar is a matter for you but can you outline some of these rumours you refer to? Because one wears a clerical collar does not make immune them from criticism.
The PR stunt from Fr Rostand was a joke. Some gullible yanks might believe it but vast majority didn't.
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What the SSPX seem to dislike is critical thinking and feel very threatened by those who do question, those who are not beguiled by their "holy obedience". The stage managed exercise by Fr Rostand is a good example. The fact he expected people to believe him was remarkable.
I believe we should watch and pray but not pray,pay and obey.It's much healthier to watch and pray than be blindly obedient.
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In large part, Bishop Fellay's problem is a PR one -- and it's of his own making. There has been too much secrecy, hidden negotiations, flimsy publicity stunts, etc. The Catholic Faith and Tradition should stand on their own. They should be proclaimed in broad daylight, in full view of both friend and foe. There is no reason for deals, compromises and agreements or any sort with modernists. The current leadership in Menzingen has squandered the good will built by Archbishop Lefebrve and others for over 40 years. Bishop Fellay's actions, regardless of their true intent (good or bad) have been clumsy and ham-handed. If nothing else, he should be replaced as superior general on the basis of incompetence alone.
I knew the Society was in trouble a few years ago when they mailed me a flyer for an "active retirement community" for traditional Catholics that they planned to build in Oregon. Since when are priestly societies involved in speculative real estate development? The whole idea stunk like a kettle of fish.
Personally, I will never again have full confidence in the SSPX so long as Bernard Fellay is its leader.
Taking the Fr Rostand "Against the Rumours". With the exception of Philomena and Clelia it did wake people up.The "rumours" have been shown to be facts. Please don't insult our intelligence, Fr Rostand. I know we are meant to pray,pay and obey but some can think and use reason.
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Philomena and Clelia,
I'm not suggesting a person believes the first thing they read or hear. I assume people discern and seek to substantiate the information. For example when I did phone an SSPX priory some months ago, it's understandable the cleric would say we must be careful what we read on the internet. I agree but then I presented facts. Facts are not rumours.
I'm not surprised some Americans couldn't grasp this PR stunt from Fr Rostand. A few years ago you had some Americans who believed Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi to be the same person.What's With Those Damn Arab Guys? Eh?
Those whom I spoke to about regarding the "Against the Rumours" didn't find it convincing.
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I'm happy to add the Cath Info disclaimer. I just didn't find Fr Rostand convincing.
The posts on CathInfo are the words and opinions of the individual members who posted them, and do not reflect the views of CathInfo or its owner.
No doubt the womenfolk Philomena and Clelia are well intentioned but people are dealing with facts. I have no problem presenting them with further facts.
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Philomena and Clelia,
Reading your comments, I have a question. We see the lengths Fr Rostand went to to try convince people that facts were rumours. Are you going to go through life convincing yourself facts are rumours? Can you outline why Fr Rostand, an alter Christus went to this trouble?
Also Bishop Fellay has been caught out telling lies. Why you seek to defend a liar is a matter for you but can you outline some of these rumours you refer to? Because one wears a clerical collar does not [then make one immune] from criticism.
The PR stunt from Fr Rostand was a joke. Some gullible yanks might believe it but vast majority didn't.
It seems to me that more than "some gullible yanks" have bought into Fr.
Rostand's version. The same dictatorial control that +Fellay effects over all the
SSPX Mass sites worldwide is shared to some degree by Fr. Rostand in the USA,
of which he is District Superior, and for the same reason: Superior status. It is a
matter of authority in a Catholic world. Catholics believe it is virtuous to accept
the authority to which they are subject, and they want to do the right thing.
I see it in microcosm in small communities of the faithful. Where there is an SSPX
priest, the parishoners want to believe what their priest tells them. In groups
where there is no SSPX priest, parishoners want to believe what certain laymen
say, who are looked up to as leaders of the community: doctors, businessmen,
attorneys, professors, educators. Independent priests are wont to keep their
distance from these controversies, because they don't like to get the faithful all
worked up over something over which they have no control. They're hoping it
will all work out, somehow, and if it doesn't, then we'll all deal with the results
when the time comes. "Sufficient is the day for the evil thereof" (Matt. vi. 34).
The control of information is paramount, which is why the "leaked" docuмents
were denounced so vehemently by +Fellay and Fr. Rostand. If they don't
disseminate the "news," then they can't control it! Any unofficial or "leaked"
docuмents threaten their grip on the minds of the faithful. Also, it seems to me
that most of the faithful don't really enjoy thinking about problems in the SSPX.
They're looking for reasons to believe that "EVERYTHING'S FINE," because the
priests are good, and we're getting the official news we need from approved
sources, like +Fellay, or Fr. Rostand, or priests approved by them. And that's why,
when an SSPX priest speaks critically of +Fellay, retaliation is swift against him,
because he has to be discredited right away in the minds of the faithful.
This just happened the other day in Mexico, when Fr. Cardozo's friends were
threatened by Fr. Trejo. So, who is Fr. Trejo? Superior, again! District Superior of
Mexico. But how many Mexican SSPX faithful are aware of the campaign against
Fr. Cardozo? You would think a lot, because they are largely descendants of the
Cristeros, and they call themselves, "Cristeros." But this time, the "news" comes
to them from the priests who they want to trust. We have it on the word of
witnesses in that district that there has been a smear campaign, an agenda of
lies, spread about Fr. Cardozo to turn the faithful away from him. And our front
line witnesses tell us that "many people in Mexico now hate Fr. Cardozo because
of these lies." But why this smear campaign? It is so that the faithful will believe
that +Fellay is doing a good thing by schmoozing up to B16 and making overtures
of "peace and security" (I Thes. v. 3) -- while we, who have been paying attention
to alternative news, can see that "sudden destruction" looms on the horizon, "and
they shall not escape" who only get their "news" from the "approved sources."
Their property and their priests would be stolen from them as if by a thief in the
night!
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as
a thief.
5 For all you are the children of light, and children of the day: we are not of the
night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore, let us not sleep as others do: but let us watch, and be sober.
7 For they that sleep, sleep in the night: and they that are drunk, are drunk in
the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, having on the breastplate of faith
and charity, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us unto wrath, but unto the purchasing of salvation
by our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 Who died for us; that whether we watch or sleep, we may live together with him.
11 For which cause comfort one another; and edify one another, as you also do.
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Dear Mr. Grace,
Well at least thank you for how you charitably worded your post addressing me even though you disagree with what I wrote. And thank you for allowing me to clarify.
I was referring mainly to several posts I'd read on IA, where a couple months back people were saying Bp. Fellay had already signed the deal with Rome and a formal announcement was forthcoming. I am sorry I cannot point you to specific posts because their search feature is not operating. Stephen Heiner started a thread there back in April titled "Why Bishop Fellay signed". He said it was already a done deal that the Society was reuniting with Rome. But now we know that isn't the case. (at least that any of us know for certain at this moment). Also a person said Bishop Tissier de Mallerais was under "house arrest" in Chicago. This was also something which proved to not be true (again as of the time that person stated it).
Those are a couple examples of what I was referring to by saying there were rumors. The main point of my post was to say, and I include myself first on the list, we would all do well to pray and sacrifice more.
I remember once when I was complaining and bemoaning something in front of my priest, he sternly said to me: "How much have you been on your knees, or performing other acts of sacrifice? Perhaps if you were given over to more holy works this situation you are complaining about would be remedied by God."
Well I never forgot that. And that wise and holy priest is right. And Mr. Grace you're also correct, we should speak about the facts when we know them to be true. Thank you for your good fraternal correction, I shall take it to heart.
God bless you.
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I remember once when I was complaining and bemoaning something in front of my priest, he sternly said to me: "How much have you been on your knees, or performing other acts of sacrifice? Perhaps if you were given over to more holy works this situation you are complaining about would be remedied by God."
Catholic Action summarized:
Pray as though all depended upon God, and act as though all depended upon you!
~St. Ignatius of Loyola
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I remember once when I was complaining and bemoaning something in front of my priest, he sternly said to me: "How much have you been on your knees, or performing other acts of sacrifice? Perhaps if you were given over to more holy works this situation you are complaining about would be remedied by God."
Catholic Action summarized:
Pray as though all depended upon God, and act as though all depended upon you!
~St. Ignatius of Loyola
Not everyone is led by the Holy Ghost to act in the same way. And notice I said "performing acts of sacrifice".... Those "acts" are indeed doing, they are not at all passive. They hopefully also gain much merit before God, and have read the Saints on how this is also Catholic action summarized.
"Pray, hope, and don't worry".
-Saint Pio
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"Don't Worry, Be Happy"! :wink:
~Bobby McFerrin.
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All You Need Is Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTF_wJW7N4g
:rahrah:
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"Don't Worry, Be Happy"! :wink:
~Bobby McFerrin.
Wow! Five thumbs down for a little humor. I'm sorry ladies I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
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I thought your comment was quite humorous, Ferdinand. Too many Trads take themselves a bit too seriously ...
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all the SSPX priests are very traditional and solid priests
Are the 29 who voted to exclude Bishop Williamson "very traditional and solid priests"? I realise Bishop Fellay has surrounded himself with those who share his view but to be fair to them they haven't celebrated the New Mass yet?
These that claim Bishop Williamson has been disobedient have still not pointed out where he is against the doctrine and church teachings? It is generally it is his right and duty as a Bishop to continue his weekly comments. He has a right and duty to preach and teach. He is a validly consecrated Bishop.
Were the SSPX names of the 29:9 vote given out ?
Aren't you too young to smoke? :judge:
Yeah, I took up smoking in 2010, when I read the story "Maximilian Krah and Menzingen, a cause for concern?"
The implications of Bp. Fellay's scandal made me a nervous wreck.
After the SSPX Chapter meeting... I've been thinking about switching to cigars.
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Possibly worst of all, +Fellay has effectively stolen the Episcopates of +Tissier, +Galarreta and +Williamson. For if they follow him to neo-modernist Rome, they will no longer be that which they were consecrated to be: spiritual sons of +ABL. And if they refuse, they will be bishops without priests to ordain, because all the seminaries will have been handed over to neo-Rome. Such cunning as this can only have come from one source.
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Possibly worst of all, +Fellay has effectively stolen the Episcopates of +Tissier, +Galarreta and +Williamson. For if they follow him to neo-modernist Rome, they will no longer be that which they were consecrated to be: spiritual sons of +ABL. And if they refuse, they will be bishops without priests to ordain, because all the seminaries will have been handed over to neo-Rome. Such cunning as this can only have come from one source.
If the hijack of the SSPX shell is consummated, new seminaries could be started. The traditionalist Benedictines, Dominicans, and Franciscans have seminarians who will require bishops for ordinations. The remnant SSPX groups will need bishops for confirmations.
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Surely it would be easier for the SSPX hardliners to unite with the CMRI than with Rome. It seems the CMRI are mostly sedevacantist, not sure if that is a requirement or not.
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Continue to shout from the hilltops...
+Fellay and his ilk must be go!!! Let them take the buildings, they can't take the Faith (unless you let him).
"They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true Faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the Faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the Faith? The true Faith, obviously. Who has lost and who has won in the struggle – the one who keeps the premises or the one who keeps the Faith?"
~St. Athanasius
This was of course the sentiment of ABL.