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Author Topic: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!  (Read 5616 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2021, 02:13:42 PM »
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  • I read stuff this crazy every day right here on Cathinfo.  

    And you even post some of it.   :laugh1:

    If you're referring to the Sister Lucia double theory, there's actual some pretty weighty evidence in its favor, whereas Mattei is clearly grasping at straws.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #46 on: June 23, 2021, 02:14:20 PM »
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  • And you even post some of it.   :laugh1:
    I plead guilty.  :laugh1:  
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #47 on: June 23, 2021, 02:15:26 PM »
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  • I am guilty.  :laugh1:

    Most of us are, the difference being that we're just shooting the breeze among friends here.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #48 on: June 23, 2021, 02:17:02 PM »
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  • If you're referring to the Sister Lucia double theory, there's actual some pretty weighty evidence in its favor, whereas Mattei is clearly grasping at straws.
    The two sister Lucys do look  different. But so do the two Paul VI's ears. But in this case, I don't see how he could know which particular blogger is writing Vigano's letters unless he has evidence he did not provide. It seems like pure rumor mongering. I would say calumny, but I don't think it is that exactly.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #49 on: June 23, 2021, 02:18:35 PM »
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  • The two sister Lucys do look  different. But so do the two Paul VI's ears.
    What have I started?
    :facepalm:
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #50 on: June 23, 2021, 02:21:18 PM »
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  • Roberto de Mattei-

    Because you are having difficulty accepting that +Vigano has adopted the Resistance position, this is for you:

    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/4146-paul-vi-imposter-pope
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #51 on: June 23, 2021, 02:33:15 PM »
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  • The two sister Lucys do look  different. But so do the two Paul VI's ears. But in this case, I don't see how he could know which particular blogger is writing Vigano's letters unless he has evidence he did not provide. It seems like pure rumor mongering. I would say calumny, but I don't think it is that exactly.

    It's not quite calumny, but close to it.  Of course if this ghostwriter isn't in fact a sodomite, Mattei's suggestion to that effect could be calumny and slander.

    Offline Marion

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    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #53 on: June 23, 2021, 02:36:32 PM »
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  • Roberto de Mattei-

    Because you are having difficulty accepting that +Vigano has adopted the Resistance position, this is for you:

    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/4146-paul-vi-imposter-pope

    Matt picks the two easiest pictures to debunk.  There are some which make me scratch my head including a variation where in one picture the ear lobe is attached to the head where in the other it is not.  That second picture of the old Montini is definitely the same guy, although showing the ravages of the evil he had wrought his entire life (he has a disturbingly evil expression on him).

    But you brought this on yourself.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #54 on: June 23, 2021, 02:43:49 PM »
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  • Full de Mattei article in Italian with lots of details:


    https://www.corrispondenzaromana.it/caso-vigano-chi-e-il-vero-autore-degli-scritti-di-mons-vigano/

    Google translation:

    https://www-corrispondenzaromana-it.translate.goog/caso-vigano-chi-e-il-vero-autore-degli-scritti-di-mons-vigano/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv

    Absolute nothingburger.  Seems like +Vigano knows this Siffi and might have adopted a phrase or two from him.  That does not amount to ghostwriting.  I was looking for him to have run both texts through a real stylistic algorithm, but we're talking about a handful of phrases that +Vigano might have adopted because he thought they were fitting.  I'm sure we all pick up language and phrases after reading stuff where the phrases seems to make sense.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #55 on: June 23, 2021, 02:55:03 PM »
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  • According to Robert Moynihan (Inside the Vatican), here is a possible motive for de Mattei's slander:

    https://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-38-2021-tuesday-june-22-accusation/


    Letter #38, 2021, Tuesday, June 22: A Startling Accusation

     “The question we pose is therefore this: analysis of the language and content of the docuмents produced by Archbishop Viganò during the years 2020-2021 reveals an author different from that of the years 2018-2019. But if Archbishop Viganò is not the author of his writings, who now is filling in his words, and perhaps even his thoughts? We would never have opened the case if so many good traditionalists were not presenting as a quasi-magisterium the statements, not of Archbishop Viganò, but of his ‘double.‘” —Italian professor Dr. Roberto De Mattei, June 21, in an article published on his website, Corrispondenza Romana (link to the original Italian and link to an English translation; the full text is also below)

     Dr. De Mattei — a leading, generally conservative Catholic intellectual in Italy who has been a friend of Archbishop Viganò for many years — made a startling allegation two days ago which has gone viral.

     That there are “two Viganòs.”

     ***
     
    De Mattei accused Viganò of having a “double,” a “stand-in,” a kind of “false Viganò” who — and this is De Mattei’s central allegation — has written many of the “Viganò letters” over the past year or so which Viganò has signed.(!)

     De Mattei says at the end of his essay that Viganò was contacted privately and confronted with this allegation.

     Evidently, Viganò assured De Mattei that there was no truth to the allegation.

     ***
     
    Why then has Dr. De Mattei issued this public accusation, if Viganò already told him (as it appears) that it is not true?

     ***
     
    Evidently, because the matters that Viganò has been touching on in the past year (the “global reset,” the national lσcкdσωns, the virus, the various vaccinations, all such social and political matters, but also the archbishop’s increasing focus on the beauty and holiness of the old Mass, and his tracing of a certain rejection of traditional Catholic teaching (which might be termed “modernism”) back to the 1960s, and before, rather than seeing it only in the years of this present pontificate) are very disturbing to some — more disturbing than Viganò’s revelations of corruption and coverup in the Roman Curia, which were the main burden of Viganò’s early letters, and which never provoked the suggestion that Viganò had a double.

     In other words, as is often popularly said, “When you are over the target, the anti-aircraft fire intensifies.”

     Viganó has touched a nerve, and one of his old friends has now placed in the public domain an article which will inevitably leave a trace of doubt, because many will say, “Well, some think there are two Viganò’s…”

     In this sense, a certain damage has been done to the archbishop’s reputation and credibility by the public circulation of this allegation.

     So again, why?

     Part of the answer may lie in the fact that a few weeks ago Dr. De Mattei — as Viganò notes in his response to the accusation below — came out in support of the worldwide use of the presently available emergency injections (called “vaccinations” though they are not ναccιnєs) as a way of stemming the pandemic. (link) De Mattei’s embrace of this position was quite influential for other conservative Catholics (link).

     De Mattei contended that such use was moral even if the injected material was in some way derived from the use of aborted fetal tissue, something Archbishop Viganò has repeatedly denounced as immoral.

     De Mattei asked: “1) Is it morally licit to use ναccιnєs against CÖVÌD-19 that use cellular lines coming from aborted fetuses?” And he answered: “There is… a reply that is more easily accessible for the Catholic with good sense, and this is it: it is licit to be ναccιnαted [even if the ναccιnє is derived from the cells of aborted human fetuses] because the Church assures of this, through its most authoritative doctrinal body, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

     It is in that moment that the first “rift” between the position of Dr. De Mattei diverged from the position of Archbishop Viganò.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #56 on: June 23, 2021, 02:57:25 PM »
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  • I'm curious what Viganò will say about Siffy and "gαy marriages".
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #57 on: June 23, 2021, 03:01:52 PM »
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  • I'm curious what Viganò will say about Siffy and "gαy marriages".

    I am told you are an active sơdơmite.

    Can you prove that is not the case?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #58 on: June 23, 2021, 03:06:07 PM »
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  • I am told you are an active sơdơmite.

    Can you prove that is not the case?
    No, not to you, how could I?
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #59 on: June 23, 2021, 03:06:49 PM »
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  • No, not to you, how could I?
    Then I guess it must be true, and you should be banned post-haste.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."