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Author Topic: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!  (Read 5547 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2021, 06:10:46 PM »
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  • Placing de Mattei at a Rumsfeld-Pentagon meeting is a rather staggering revelation.

    Why would he be there?

    Recalling how Bishop Fellay chaperoned and championed him around America a few years ago; the strange choice of location for the new seminary (financed in part by the Jaidhofer Foundation, which brought us Max Krah); Viganò’s mention of a Deepchurch in the service of a Deepstate; de Mattei distancing himself from Viganò’s “Appeal;” Cardinal Sarah soon also distancing after initially signing; Fr. Frey doing a 180 on vaccines; the expulsion of Williamson for voicing an historical opinion; etc.

    Is there a common thread to connect any of these themes?

    Why is de Mattei suddenly acting like a controlled man?

    Why am I suddenly reminded of the recent thread “Are there Feds at your Trad Chapel?”
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #16 on: June 22, 2021, 10:25:39 PM »
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  • Sean:

    Rome would capture only empty churches, while the SSPX would come into conciliarism with empty hands.


    Poetic concepts and imagery.

    Thanks Sean.


    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #17 on: June 22, 2021, 11:03:29 PM »
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  • Placing de Mattei at a Rumsfeld-Pentagon meeting is a rather staggering revelation.

    Why would he be there?


    Revelation? He was a government advisor on foreign relations. This is well known in Catholic and "Catholic" circles ever since he turned celebrity with his 2010 book. On en.wikipedia you can find this info in the very first version of his article of 2011:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roberto_de_Mattei&oldid=416746012

    Quote
    From February 2002 to May 2006 he held the post of Adviser for International Affairs to the Italian Government.


    "An esteemed historian who writes an approved biography of the leader of a counterfeit-Catholic sect but neglects to inform his readers that the leader's Great Uncle, the pre-eminent formative influence on the leader's life according to the biography, was a Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Brazil.

    Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira (man-god of the counterfeit-Catholic sects TFP, TIA, etc.) surely was some sort of gnostic/rosicrucian/freemason/you-name-it, but he wasn't Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Brazil. You can find all those freemason Grand Masters named on pt.wikipedia:

    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Oriente_do_Brasil#Hist%C3%B3rico_de_Gr%C3%A3o-Mestres

    and probable also somewhere on:

    https://www.gob.org.br

    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #18 on: June 22, 2021, 11:08:58 PM »
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  • Even if you think that Viganò is good and de Mattei bad, that's no reason to dismiss the fact, that Viganò didn't even bother to post a selfie with the letter of de Mattei in his hand. Isn't he interested in calming down rumours? Isn't he interested in calming down fans of his writings, who be may somewhat insecure? Or are these writings not of his?
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #19 on: June 22, 2021, 11:24:07 PM »
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  • Even if you think that Viganò is good and de Mattei bad, that's no reason to dismiss the fact, that Viganò didn't even bother to post a selfie with the letter of de Mattei in his hand. Isn't he interested in calming down rumours? Isn't he interested in calming down fans of his writings, who be may somewhat insecure? Or are these writings not of his?

    The gratuitous Mattei nonsense is universally rejected by all trads.

    Mattei has only succeeded in discrediting himself, not his target.

     

    (Sorry for the immodesty)
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #20 on: June 22, 2021, 11:28:30 PM »
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  • The gratuitous Mattei nonsense is universally rejected by all trads.
    Mattei has only succeeded in discrediting himself, not his target.
    That's a silly approach.

    De Mattei is fooled by TFP, and fooled by CÖVÌD-lies, and unfortunately not rejected by all trads.
    But that doesn't make up for the still missing answer of Viganò to a serious question.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #21 on: June 22, 2021, 11:32:02 PM »
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  • That's a silly approach.

    De Mattei is fooled by TFP, and fooled by CÖVÌD-lies, and unfortunately not rejected by all trads.
    But that doesn't make up for the still missing answer of Viganò to a serious question.

    Hmm...your early posts are almost all one sentence or less, yet these most recent posts sometimes run as long as two sentences.  

    You took an 8-year hiatus (from 2013-2021), and rejoined to post about the Germans.  Hmm.

    Clearly someone is ghost writing for you.  Or, maybe your account was hacked.

    Until you can post a selfie showing you logging into your CI account, I do not think we can accept that you are the real Marion.

    We are all holding out our breath until you can rebut my worry.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #22 on: June 22, 2021, 11:38:33 PM »
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  • Hmm...your early posts ere almost all one sentence or less, yet these most recent posts sometimes run as long as two sentences.  

    Clearly someone is ghost writing for you.

    Until you can post a selfie showing you logging into your CI account, I do not think we can accept that you are the real Marion.

    We are all holding out our breath until you can rebut my worry.
    True, you can't be sure, whether I am the person once registered as Marion on CI or whether I am a different person. But then, on the other hand, nobody cares what I write, and nobody is phantasizing that I should become Pope.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #23 on: June 22, 2021, 11:40:34 PM »
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  • True, you can't be sure, whether I am the person once registered as Marion on CI or whether I am a different person. But then, on the other hand, nobody is phantasizing that I should become Pope.

    I'm sorry, but until I can ascertain with certitude that you are the real Marion, who disappeared for 8 years, and came back to defend the Germans, I just can't really hear anything you have to say.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Marion

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #24 on: June 22, 2021, 11:49:20 PM »
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  • I'm sorry, but until I can ascertain with certitude that you are the real Marion, who disappeared for 8 years, and came back to defend the Germans, I just can't really hear anything you have to say.

    You can't even hear what de Mattei has to say. To love our enemies doesn't mean to agree with them, but if we refer to their writings, we should read them with open eyes, and an open heart.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #25 on: June 23, 2021, 01:47:12 AM »
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  • Marion's first 14 posts happened 2013 or earlier.

    The rest of his posts (35 posts, or 71% of them) happened starting recently, here in 2021. For him, that's really posting up a storm all the sudden.

    Reminds me of the US Dollar -- hyperinflation here we come! hahaha

    Not unprecedented, but I just wanted to point that out. I'm scratching my head myself. Something lit a fire under him -- which no thread in the last 8 years managed to do (and there were quite a few doozies during that 8-year period, let me point out!)
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #26 on: June 23, 2021, 01:52:56 AM »
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  • You can't even hear what de Mattei has to say. To love our enemies doesn't mean to agree with them, but if we refer to their writings, we should read them with open eyes, and an open heart.

    Frankly, we don't have time.

    I'm not going to keep expecting a literal miracle. No, there's a thing called MORAL CERTAINTY. You can be morally certain a criminal is going to continue to be bad. Moral certainty means certain enough to act on it. Doesn't mean you won't be wrong 1 in 100,000 times. But that doesn't matter, and God won't blame you.

    Humans have to take shortcuts. I don't have time to personally interview everyone in a bad neighborhood. If I get lost in a big city, and find myself in the ghetto, I'm going to lock all my doors and get out of there as soon as I can. Yes, I'm pre-judging. Yes, I'm taking a mental shortcut. Yes, I might be wrong about a few of the people who live there. But it's prudent and rational behavior I should take for the safety of my family in the car with me.

    The same reason I don't waste time reading everything that comes out of Modernist Rome these days. Why waste my time? At least watching cat videos on Youtube would be entertaining and diverting (not saying I waste my time thus, but just making a point). Cat videos would certainly be better for my stress level. Why frustrate yourself by following the play-by-play of destroyers like Bıdɛn, the demons in Congress, or Pope Francis? Just prepare yourself and your family -- that is being constructive. There is much we need to learn, as well as teach. That takes time. Time we won't have, if we waste too much time & energy on the dead. Leave the dead to bury the dead. Shake the dust off your feet.

    I will never take anything Fauci says seriously, ever again. He's been proven to be a corrupt shill. So he earned that dismissal.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #27 on: June 23, 2021, 06:42:05 AM »
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  •  :laugh1:

    This conversation reminds me of Ratzinger's resignation of the Novus Ordo papacy.  And no matter how many times he says he really did resign, meant what he said, and was not forced to do it, the Resignationists just.won't.believe.it.    :fryingpan:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #28 on: June 23, 2021, 07:21:59 AM »
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  • Even if he posted a selfie those who insist on this foolishness would not be appeased.  It’s putting someone into the position of proving a negative.  Even with a picture that doesn’t prove there’s no ghostwriter.  Does +Vigano have to take video of himself penning a letter and then hold it up to the camera?  Even then he couldn’t prove that someone else didn’t write it and that he merely committed it to memory.

    This whole thing is stupid.  Mattei just didn’t like the contents of +Vigano’s latest Resistance type missive, so he’s sowing FUD to discredit it.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: +Vigano Refutes de Mattei!
    « Reply #29 on: June 23, 2021, 07:27:46 AM »
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  • When I saw the CI thread about Mattei saying Vigano has a ghost writer, the first thing I thought was who is Mattei? All it said was that he a Catholic writer of prominence. That's no qualification, for there are scarcely any real Catholics in the world today. The line from Casablanca, always comes to mind in situations like this "ɾσυnd υρ the usual subjects"! That is what came to mind, ɾσυnd υρ Mattei, he's a Catholic, have Mattei write something discrediting, dismissing +Vigano.

    Now B from A confirms my initial thoughts, just one day later. End of Mattei for me.

    If someone came and told me that my sister took any kind of a mean action against someone, I immediately would know that the person was a liar or he mistook a stranger for my sister. +Vigano has proven himself by his recent writings, his deeds, Mattei has not proven himself by his life as per B from A's postings.