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Author Topic: Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations  (Read 12964 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2015, 08:52:24 PM »
Quote from: PapalSupremacy
Quote
There has been much discussion among theologians as to what constitutes the essential matter of this sacrament. Some, e.g. Aureolus and Petavius, held that it consists in the imposition of hands. Others, with St. Thomas, Bellarmine, and Maldonatus, maintain that it is the anointing with chrism. According to a third opinion (Morinus, Tapper) either anointing or imposition of hands suffices. Finally, the most generally accepted view is that the anointing and the imposition of hands conjointly are the matter. The "imposition", however, is not that with which the rite begins but the laying on of hands which takes place in the act of anointing.


It also says this about the Eastern rites:
Quote
The Eastern Church omits the imposition of hands and the prayer at the beginning, and accompanies the anointing with the words: "the sign [or seal] of the gift of the Holy Ghost."


The conclusion is that according to the generally accepted view the imposition of hands is part of the essential matter in the Roman rite, and in the Eastern rites it is not.

Therefore, when a bishop confirms in the Roman rite, that means it is essential for validity that he imposes his hands on the head of the confirmants.


Negatory.  It can be matter without being essential matter; those are two different things.

If the Sacrament remains valid in the Eastern Rite without imposition then it's not matter essential to the Sacrament.  St. Thomas therefore clearly had it right.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2015, 08:58:38 PM »
Quote from: hollingsworth
I am more drawn to the Poem every day.


On those grounds alone you should be sent out to pasture with GS.


Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2015, 10:04:27 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: PapalSupremacy
Quote
There has been much discussion among theologians as to what constitutes the essential matter of this sacrament. Some, e.g. Aureolus and Petavius, held that it consists in the imposition of hands. Others, with St. Thomas, Bellarmine, and Maldonatus, maintain that it is the anointing with chrism. According to a third opinion (Morinus, Tapper) either anointing or imposition of hands suffices. Finally, the most generally accepted view is that the anointing and the imposition of hands conjointly are the matter. The "imposition", however, is not that with which the rite begins but the laying on of hands which takes place in the act of anointing.


It also says this about the Eastern rites:
Quote
The Eastern Church omits the imposition of hands and the prayer at the beginning, and accompanies the anointing with the words: "the sign [or seal] of the gift of the Holy Ghost."


The conclusion is that according to the generally accepted view the imposition of hands is part of the essential matter in the Roman rite, and in the Eastern rites it is not.

Therefore, when a bishop confirms in the Roman rite, that means it is essential for validity that he imposes his hands on the head of the confirmants.


Negatory.  It can be matter without being essential matter; those are two different things.

If the Sacrament remains valid in the Eastern Rite without imposition then it's not matter essential to the Sacrament.  St. Thomas therefore clearly had it right.


We are always obliged to follow the safest course regarding the sacraments.

Since "the most generally accepted view" is that the matter of the sacrament of Confirmation consists, in the Roman rite, of both the anointing and the imposition of hands, I believe this creates a positive and probable doubt in the validity of those confirmations in Minas Gerais. But considering that I have had no formal theological training, I cannot be certain, which is why I said that this matter must be dealt with by those responsible.

Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2015, 04:39:51 AM »
Quote from: Green Scapular
So should resisters go by Matthew's "gut feeling" about what is good enough, or should they expect a traditional bishop to follow the ritual precisely and exactly?  

I think they should go by what the magisterium of the Catholic church says.

Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2015, 06:54:01 AM »
All this is ridiculous and wicked.

One cannot judge just by some pictures. In this one he clearly imposes the right hand:



While here he does not.



BUT WAIT! BECAUSE HE ALREADY DID:



More nice pictures here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.785168668248945&type=1&l=bef41a0937