Author Topic: Two questions regarding Resistance Confirmations (Read 12957 times)

Green Scapular · « **on:** June 24, 2015, 08:23:09 AM »

http://associacaosantoatanasio.blogspot.mx/2015/04/fotos-visita-episcopal-monsenhor-faure.html

In the above photos Bishop Faure does not impose his hands on them while anointing them with chrism, as is the correct way. He merely has his fingers extended alongside their heads without touching them while his thumb does the anointing.

How it should be done:
http://www.fsspx-sudamerica.org/imagenes4/3006.jpg
http://sspx.ca/sites/sspx/files/styles/news_big/public/events/confirmations.jpg?itok=qZVF8aEm
http://laportelatine.org/international/communic/presse/afrique/2013/confirmations_tissier_nigeria_130602/conf001.jpg

1) Why does Bishop Faure omit this important part of the rite?

2) Why does Bishop Williamson give the permission to priests to confirm? How can he do this? Archbishop Lefebvre, even before he consecrated 4 auxiliary bishops, never did this.

Per Fr. Chazal, in Austrailasia Report IV:
"His Lordship is delegating us the power to confirm, as done in mission territory or in time of persecution."
http://www.therecusant.com/apps/blog/show/42407882-fr-chazal-australasia-report-iv

And I recall that Bishop Williamson also gave Dom Tomas Aquino in Brazil the same "delegation" at one point.

richard · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2015, 08:32:42 AM »

Quote from: Green Scapular

http://associacaosantoatanasio.blogspot.mx/2015/04/fotos-visita-episcopal-monsenhor-faure.html

In the above photos Bishop Faure does not impose his hands on them while anointing them with chrism, as is the correct way. He merely has his fingers extended alongside their heads without touching them while his thumb does the anointing.

How it should be done:
http://www.fsspx-sudamerica.org/imagenes4/3006.jpg
http://sspx.ca/sites/sspx/files/styles/news_big/public/events/confirmations.jpg?itok=qZVF8aEm
http://laportelatine.org/international/communic/presse/afrique/2013/confirmations_tissier_nigeria_130602/conf001.jpg

1) Why does Bishop Faure omit this important part of the rite?

2) Why does Bishop Williamson give the permission to priests to confirm? How can he do this? Archbishop Lefebvre, even before he consecrated 4 auxiliary bishops, never did this.

Per Fr. Chazal, in Austrailasia Report IV:
"His Lordship is delegating us the power to confirm, as done in mission territory or in time of persecution."
http://www.therecusant.com/apps/blog/show/42407882-fr-chazal-australasia-report-iv

And I recall that Bishop Williamson also gave Dom Tomas Aquino in Brazil the same "delegation" at one point.

I was confirmed by a priest in 1965 who was given the authority to do so by our bishop because he had to go to Rome.If it was ok then why is it not ok now?

Peter15and1 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2015, 08:45:46 AM »

Quote from: [i

Rituale Romanum[/i]]6. Then the celebrant confirms them (a bishop wears the mitre at this time, and so does a higher prelate, such as a protonotary apostolic), as they kneel in line, first the males then the females. When one row is finished all rise and others kneel in place, and so on till the end. The celebrant asks the name of each one as he is presented by the godfather or the godmother; and dipping the tip of his thumb in chrism he confirms in the following way: laying his right hand on the head of the recipient he marks with his thumb the sign of the cross on the person's forehead, while saying the first part of the form up to the word cross inclusive, and goes on with the rest of the form, making a threefold sign of the cross over him at the places indicated:

N., I seal you with the sign of the + cross; and I confirm you with the chrism that sanctifies; in the name of the Father, and of the Son, + and of the Holy Spirit.
All: Amen.

Then he strikes the confirmed lightly on the cheek, saying:

Peace be with you.

{This last action is a token of the kiss of peace given in earlier times; but it now has an added significance of reminding the confirmed to be ready at all times to suffer for the faith.}

Green Scapular · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2015, 08:55:43 AM »

Quote from: Peter15and1

Quote from: [i
Rituale Romanum[/i]]6. Then the celebrant confirms them (a bishop wears the mitre at this time, and so does a higher prelate, such as a protonotary apostolic), as they kneel in line, first the males then the females. When one row is finished all rise and others kneel in place, and so on till the end. The celebrant asks the name of each one as he is presented by the godfather or the godmother; and dipping the tip of his thumb in chrism he confirms in the following way: laying his right hand on the head of the recipient he marks with his thumb the sign of the cross on the person's forehead, while saying the first part of the form up to the word cross inclusive, and goes on with the rest of the form, making a threefold sign of the cross over him at the places indicated:

N., I seal you with the sign of the + cross; and I confirm you with the chrism that sanctifies; in the name of the Father, and of the Son, + and of the Holy Spirit.
All: Amen.

Then he strikes the confirmed lightly on the cheek, saying:

Peace be with you.

{This last action is a token of the kiss of peace given in earlier times; but it now has an added significance of reminding the confirmed to be ready at all times to suffer for the faith.}

That is exactly the problem. Bishop Faure apparently did not do that.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215b.htm
"the most generally accepted view is that the anointing and the imposition of hands conjointly are the matter. The "imposition", however, is not that with which the rite begins but the laying on of hands which takes place in the act of anointing"

Again, it is the MATTER of the sacrament!
Catechism St. Pius X http://www.ewtn.com/library/catechsm/piusxcat.htm#Sacraments
4 Q. What is the matter of this sacrament?
A. The matter of this sacrament, besides the imposition of hands by the bishop, is the anointing of the forehead of the baptised with sacred chrism; and for this reason it is also called the sacrament of Chrism, that is Anointing.

Green Scapular · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2015, 09:36:10 AM »

Even Novus Ordo Bishop Bergoglio imposed his hand while anointing...