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Author Topic: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???  (Read 32683 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2023, 06:58:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 21, 2023, 06:43:52 AM
    Isn't that the question you posed to Trento that you wanted me to answer?
    So I answered the question becaused you aske me to.

    What kind of game is this?  You challenged me to answer a question, which I did, and then get called out for answering it?

    You even quoted the question I posed to Trento, but are confused about the question I asked him??

    Nobody is arguing the consecrations will be unapproved, but rather the opposite, but then asking how can Rome do such a thing is the SSPX isn’t allegedly in communion with Rome.

    You and I do not communicate well with each other.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #91 on: April 21, 2023, 07:04:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 21, 2023, 06:58:46 AM
    You even quoted the question I posed to Trento, but are confused about the question I asked him??

    Nobody is arguing the consecrations will be unapproved, but rather the opposite, but then asking how can Rome do such a thing is the SSPX isn’t allegedly in communion with Rome.

    You and I do not communicate well with each other.

    I wasn't arguing anything ... just answering the question.  I said that Bergoglio could approve it based on his great mercifulness, even though SSPX are not in "full communion" with Rome.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #92 on: April 21, 2023, 07:41:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 21, 2023, 07:04:15 AM
    I wasn't arguing anything ... just answering the question.  I said that Bergoglio could approve it based on his great mercifulness, even though SSPX are not in "full communion" with Rome.

    Does that fly?

    Can a Catholic pope approve bishops for (allegedly) condemned non-Catholic groups?

    For example, can Francis approve episcopal consecrations for Old Catholics, Nestorians, and other schismatic communities?

    And if he did approve bishops for communities not in “full communion” with Rome, would it imply his approval of their errors, and/or thereby even suggest apostasy?
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #93 on: April 21, 2023, 07:45:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 21, 2023, 06:21:05 AM

    The question is: How can Francis approves bishops for a non-Catholic community (which, if they really were non-catholic, would could be considered a schismatic act).

    Can Francis approve bishops for the Old Catholics?  for the Nestorians?
    But maybe Jorge considers the SSPX a Catholic Community. Here is what Bishop Hounder said:

    An Interview with His Excellency Bishop Vitus Huonder - District of the USA (sspx.org)

    "And as far as the accusation of schism goes, well, I have an anecdote to tell—you know that I have had many contacts with the Holy Father, also on the subject of the Society. The question of schism was brought up, and the Holy Father himself said on several occasions: “This is not a schismatic community.” Pope Francis himself said this to me during a private audience. I just point that out in passing, also in order to reassure people who keep returning to this subject, or who suffer from this false accusation."
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #94 on: April 21, 2023, 07:53:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on April 21, 2023, 07:45:47 AM
    But maybe Jorge considers the SSPX a Catholic Community. Here is what Bishop Hounder said:

    An Interview with His Excellency Bishop Vitus Huonder - District of the USA (sspx.org)

    "And as far as the accusation of schism goes, well, I have an anecdote to tell—you know that I have had many contacts with the Holy Father, also on the subject of the Society. The question of schism was brought up, and the Holy Father himself said on several occasions: “This is not a schismatic community.” Pope Francis himself said this to me during a private audience. I just point that out in passing, also in order to reassure people who keep returning to this subject, or who suffer from this false accusation."

    You are surely correct, but then what value is “full communion” with Rome, if condemned communities lacking it are nevertheless considered Catholic?

    What is to stop Francis from considering Old Catholics or Nestorians “Catholic?”  That would be very ecuмenical of him.

    If on paper a group stands condemned, but in Francis’s heart he considers them Catholic anyway, does such emotional communion mean anything? 

    If it does, then why worry about a deal on paper, the lifting of excommunication, etc?

    And if the next pope does not consider them a Catholic community, do they magically fall back outside “full communion?
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #95 on: April 21, 2023, 08:06:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 21, 2023, 07:53:06 AM
    You are surely correct, but then what value is “full communion” with Rome, if condemned communities lacking it are nevertheless considered Catholic?

    What it to stop Francis from considering Old Catholics or Nestorians “Catholic?”

    If on paper a group stands condemned, but in Francis’s heart he considers them Catholic anyway, does such emotional communion mean anything? 

    If it does, then why worry about a deal on paper, the lifting of excommunication, etc?
    In his mind, I suspect "full communion" is of no value in the Catholic sense, but in the New Religion, "full communion" is all those who tolerate each other and do not condemn (demand their conversion) of the others (jew, muslims, Novus Ordo). So, after enough time for the majority of Catholic to be brainwashed or at least pose no serious threat, then the day might come when Old Catholic and Nestorian are all welcome, provided they all tolerate each other and let everyone live in peace.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #96 on: April 21, 2023, 11:40:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 21, 2023, 07:04:15 AM
    I wasn't arguing anything ... just answering the question.  I said that Bergoglio could approve it based on his great mercifulness, even though SSPX are not in "full communion" with Rome.

    My answer would be similar to Lad's. Bergoglio seems to do whatever he pleases without considering the Curia's concerns. The same seems to happens in some dioceses around the world where the diocesan bishops are friendly with the SSPX and allows the SSPX to use diocesan facilities freely.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #97 on: April 22, 2023, 03:21:24 AM »
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    • As always I have my doubts. There should've been new bishops every 10 years or so, not a consecration in 1989 and then crickets and rumors. We will know when it happens, and not a moment sooner.
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    Offline BigFLAVA

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #98 on: April 22, 2023, 05:46:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Minnesota on April 22, 2023, 03:21:24 AM
    As always I have my doubts. There should've been new bishops every 10 years or so, not a consecration in 1989 and then crickets and rumors. We will know when it happens, and not a moment sooner.
    This seems like a pretty sure thing based on what my source has said also
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #99 on: April 22, 2023, 09:06:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on April 21, 2023, 11:40:14 PM
    My answer would be similar to Lad's. Bergoglio seems to do whatever he pleases without considering the Curia's concerns. The same seems to happens in some dioceses around the world where the diocesan bishops are friendly with the SSPX and allows the SSPX to use diocesan facilities freely.

    Strangely, in some dioceses, such as here in Cleveland, the bishop continues to ignore Bergolgio's reiterated directive that Tridentine Masses no longer be allowed in parish churches.  There are still about a half dozen Tridentine Masses taking place in parish churches in the Cleveland diocese.

    But when Bergoglio has gone out of his way to stress that he's just the "Bishop of Rome," the Bishop of Cleveland could rightly assert that the "Bishop of Rome" can't tell the Bishop of Cleveland what to do.  Bergoglio has made a habit of rejecting the authority of prior popes, so why should any bishops respect his "authority" either?  "Your opinion is dulty noted, Jorge, but I'm the bishop here."  This is where collegiality is biting Jorge in the rear end.  After playing the humility and collegiality game (empty rhetoric), Jorge's attempt to strong-arm the Conciliar bishops is falling on deaf ears, and his sudden attempt to re-discover that he's the Supreme Pontiff rings hollow.
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #100 on: April 22, 2023, 09:53:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on April 21, 2023, 11:40:14 PM
    The same seems to happens in some dioceses around the world where the diocesan bishops are friendly with the SSPX and allows the SSPX to use diocesan facilities freely.

    Does anyone know the number of facilities the SSPX cohabitates in? 
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    Online Geremia

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #101 on: April 22, 2023, 06:37:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 21, 2023, 05:44:00 AM
    The consecrations will be announced in May, performed in June, and take place in Zaitzkofen (where Huonder will no doubt be involved).
    Source?
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    Offline Against the Heresies

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #102 on: April 23, 2023, 12:58:26 AM »
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    • Zaitzkofen? Certainly not! There's not even remotely enough space for such a ceremony, to name just one reason against the location.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #103 on: April 23, 2023, 04:47:35 PM »
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    • From a PM:

    Hello,
    I hope you have had a blessed Easter.
    I live in [X] and go to the resistance chapel in
    • .  I had a conversation last night (22nd) with a gentleman, [DELETED TO PRESERVE ANONYMITY]. He said that the prior (or rector, I can not specifically remember) held a meeting with the seminarians and told them that the SSPX was getting new Bishops. The prior did not say when or who. The [deleted] said that they (The SSPX) would announce it soon. [/font][/size][/color]
      I do not believe that the gentleman had any reason to lie to me, but who knows.
      In Christ,

      Xxxcxxc
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    Offline User2022

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #104 on: April 23, 2023, 06:59:39 PM »
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    • I spoke to a SSPX priest today, who just returned from a priests meeting in Winona. He said no bishops in June. He implied that they are preparing for new bishops, but not soon, and definitely not in June. 
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