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Author Topic: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???  (Read 30676 times)

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Offline Mr G

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SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
« on: March 25, 2023, 07:20:51 AM »
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  • NOTE from Non Possumus:

    Non Possumus: CONSECRATION OF NEW BISHOPS IN THE NEO-SSPX (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com)

    A reliable source informs us that the Neo-SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year.

    If these consecrations are carried out with the permission of liberal, modernist and apostate Rome, or if the new bishops belong to the accordist side; the Fraternity will take a great step towards the abyss.


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #1 on: March 25, 2023, 07:32:26 AM »
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  • The possibility of SSPX bishops that was realused in 1988 was spoken about openly beginning in 1986 and with certainty from 1987.

    Where is the public discussion of new bishops for the Neo-SSPX?





    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #2 on: March 25, 2023, 08:22:28 AM »
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  • Highly unlikely unless Bergoglio is on board and has pre-selected the candidates.

    Bishop Paul Robinson
    Bishop Francois Laisney
    Bishop Gregoire Celier

    We should have a CathInfo pool about which Modernists will be the bishops … if the rumor is true.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #3 on: March 25, 2023, 10:04:38 AM »
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  • Highly unlikely unless Bergoglio is on board and has pre-selected the candidates.

    Bishop Paul Robinson
    Bishop Francois Laisney
    Bishop Gregoire Celier

    We should have a CathInfo pool about which Modernists will be the bishops … if the rumor is true.

    Before I say anything, I must be crystal clear.

    There's "consecrating bishops" and then there's "consecrating bishops".

    The chance of the neo-SSPX consecrating more bishops +ABL-style, as a Crisis/wartime measure to protect Tradition, against the wishes of Rome, being willing to take any PR damage, "excommunications", and other name calling? Approximately ZERO.

    The same chance as George Soros, Klaus Schwab, Biden, Clinton, Bush, Gates, or Bergoglio having a miraculous St. Paul/St. Augustine style conversion to the True Faith and service of God. Technically possible (with God anything is possible), but AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

    How many countries, having apostatized from the Faith, have converted back to it without any suffering or bƖσσdshɛd? Currently we're at ZERO. Same for an organization like the SSPX. They aren't just going to come back. A huge portion of the priests are compromised and corrupted. And it happens to be 100% of those in leadership positions, so... that ship is as sunk as the souls of the bad guys I listed above, barring a LITERAL MIRACLE OF GRACE from God.

    Now consecrating a modernist/accordist bishop or 3 with the permission of Rome? That's a completely different animal.

    But remember, the SSPX came out against the recent Resistance consecrations, which were in every way equivalent to the 1988 +ABL consecrations. So they can't go THAT route without being a complete 2-faced hypocrite with zero credibility.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #4 on: March 25, 2023, 10:37:53 AM »
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  • Now consecrating a modernist/accordist bishop or 3 with the permission of Rome? That's a completely different animal.

    Yes, this is where I was going also.  They would have 3 candidates pre-cleared by Rome.  They may even insist that only NO bishops would be the consecrators, casting doubt about their validity out there as well.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #5 on: March 25, 2023, 10:40:26 AM »
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  • But remember, the SSPX came out against the recent Resistance consecrations, which were in every way equivalent to the 1988 +ABL consecrations. So they can't go THAT route without being a complete 2-faced hypocrite with zero credibility.

    I don't think that this by itself would stop them.  They'll roll out their neo-SSPX apologists in full force to explain why THEIR consecrations were "different".

    I think that their biggest reservation is that it would scuttle their relationship with Rome and any hope of a regularization.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #6 on: March 25, 2023, 10:58:53 AM »
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  • Yes, this is where I was going also.  They would have 3 candidates pre-cleared by Rome.  They may even insist that only NO bishops would be the consecrators, casting doubt about their validity out there as well.
    Or would they follow the dictates of the current Vatican and consecrate using the new rite of consecration in Latin so that most of the lay-faithful wouldn't really know if they used a valid rite or not?

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #7 on: March 25, 2023, 11:38:33 AM »
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  • I could be wrong, but I don't see this happening anytime soon (i.e., not while the three SSPX bishops are in reasonably good health, and Fellay is not eaten up with old age by any stretch of the imagination), unless Rome would absolutely refuse to allow any new priests to offer the TLM.  That would constitute all the "emergency" that you need.



    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #8 on: March 25, 2023, 11:38:43 AM »
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  • Highly unlikely unless Bergoglio is on board and has pre-selected the candidates.

    Bishop Paul Robinson
    Bishop Francois Laisney
    Bishop Gregoire Celier

    We should have a CathInfo pool about which Modernists will be the bishops … if the rumor is true.
    Your choices seem the safest bet Lad.

    "When shall these three meet again? When the apostasy is true and strong, when the neosspx is finally done and done! There to meet with Frank-in-stein upon the Pallatine......"
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #9 on: March 25, 2023, 11:47:12 AM »
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  • I don't think that this by itself would stop them.  They'll roll out their neo-SSPX apologists in full force to explain why THEIR consecrations were "different".

    I think that their biggest reservation is that it would scuttle their relationship with Rome and any hope of a regularization.

    The more you think about it, the more impossible this becomes.

    Let's put it this way: they've been training their Faithful and their priests/seminarians for the past 20 years that we need permission from Rome, that we're in danger of becoming Old Catholics or Orthodox, that the Resistance is bad, +ABL was bad, the Conciliar bishops are good guys, etc. In other words, their own actions for the past X years will work against bringing the Faithful along with any about-face turn. That's the problem with about-faces! Even if a PERSON is able to flip-flop, when you're dragging thousands or millions of followers along, it's more difficult to get them all to forget what you've said for the past X years.

    Those Catholics who basically ignore the SSPX anyhow (but merely attend their Masses, while staying as aloof as possible) would be the least affected. As in "SSPX: Nevermind. Aloof parishioner: I never do (I always ignore you by default)."
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    Online Mithrandylan

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #10 on: March 25, 2023, 11:49:37 AM »
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  • Is non-possumus a reliable source? What is their track record on predictions and forecasts?
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #11 on: March 25, 2023, 12:23:55 PM »
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  • Highly unlikely unless Bergoglio is on board and has pre-selected the candidates.

    Bishop Paul Robinson
    Bishop Francois Laisney
    Bishop Gregoire Celier

    We should have a CathInfo pool about which Modernists will be the bishops … if the rumor is true.

    That's a good idea!

    I don't think that the SSPX would consecrate any new bishops without Rome's approval. They wouldn't want to risk the wrath of Francis (who seems to like the SSPX), or the possibility of excommunication. The SSPX probably doesn't like the fact that the Resistance has more bishops, and that the Resistance is growing - slowly but surely.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #12 on: March 25, 2023, 02:30:26 PM »
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  • I had heard this news privately, and began formulating an outline in preparation for an article/analysis, but with too many projects on my desk, abandoned it as just another distraction.  Nevertheless, here are some ideas I would have developed (however, as CI does not allow numbers and/or bulletpoints, the formatting is very jumbled):


    • The SSPX will market the consecrations as the final realization of +Lefebvre's battle (i.e., "He always wanted a bishop to continue Tradition, and now we finally have Rome giving them to us.").
    • But the problems with this ploy are numerous:

      • Once +Lefebvre realized the Romans were negotiating in bad faith, he considered it necessary to consecrate bishops independent of them.
      • He further stated that we must remain separated from this conciliar Church until they come back to the faith (Spiritual Journey).
      • These two aforementioned observations should reasonably pre-empt the SSPX’s anticipated rebuttal that the 2023 consecrations are the fulfillment of +Lefebvre's goal (and secondarily, the anticipated claim that Rome is no longer poorly disposed toward Tradition).
      • But such idiocy must necessarily pass over in silence the hostile actions of BXVI (whom +Ganswein said was always trying to lure the faithful and clergy away from +Lefebvre, and who intended to create a hybrid rite in order to reorient trads toward the conciliar reforms, and also use the hermeneutic of continuity to reorient them toward conciliar doctrine), and of Francis’ recent legislation, who's blatant hostility requires no explanation.
    • The question then becomes, “What can we make of bishops consecrated by a Rome more hostile to Tradition than ever?

      • Obviously, the candidates chosen for consecration will be unknown liberals (they cannot be known liberals, because this would open the operation up to criticism, and expose the Roman strategy).  Nor could such candidates be stalwart traditionalists (if any are still to be found within the SSPX ranks), since this would obviously be contrary to anti-traditionalist Rome’s agenda to dilute, then capture. Tradition.
    • Supposing the aforementioned observations were accurate, would the consecration of bishops represent a win or a loss for Tradition and the recovery of the Church?

      • +Lefebvre famously said that since the Society has everything to lose and nothing to gain, every compromise is a loss.
      • I wrote a book detailing over 100 of these compromises, changes, and contradictions, intended by the SSPX to garner goodwill from modernist Rome (the most conspicuous of which is the relinquishing of combativeness against modernism, instead preferring to collaborate rather than fight it, and naively thinking it can co-exist without qualitative decline and slowly sliding into modernism themselves…despite the compromises just alluded to, which prove the opposite).
    • The final conclusion, therefore, which any prudent traditionalist would have to arrive at, is that the consecration of modernist-approved bishops will materially continue to extend the temporal existence of the SSPX, but only at the expense of cementing and solidifying its conciliar trajectory, which as mentioned necessitates silence in the face of conciliar and Roman errors, and the continued qualitative dilution of its own doctrinal, moral, and liturgical positions.
    • Fr. Cottier (later made a Cardinal after his conquest of Campos) once advised with the psychological shrewdness of the devil, "We must be patient...what is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts...gradually, we must expect further steps, such as concelebration..."

      If +Fellay famously said the Society agreed with 95% of Vatican II, and the Society no longer combats the modernist errors of Rome with the same vigor of yesteryear, its a pretty good indication that "rejection (of conciliarism) is no longer in their hearts." 

      The salt has lost its savor...




    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #13 on: March 25, 2023, 11:11:56 PM »
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  • I'm getting kind of lost here.  Somebody educate me.

    Are some thinking that Francis will, indeed, give the go-ahead to consecrate three new bishops, thereby granting the SSPX a de facto reconciliation, and basically "looking the other way" and disregarding his own TC?

    I've said this before, but I have a pet theory that his long-term goal is to drive the TLM out of the dioceses, leave the SSPX more or less alone, and effect some kind of merger between the SSPX and the FSSP (and possibly drawing in other groups such as the ICSSR), creating a separate "church within a church" for TLM adherents.  I'm also thinking that such a "merger" could entail forcing the FSSP to give up the TLM, making them into an Adoremus-type fraternity, and that the priests who object to that would slide on over to the SSPX, and possibly be more or less encouraged to.

    Has Francis given any indications whatsoever that he intends to withdraw the various faculties he has given the SSPX, and to tell them "either give up the TLM and 'return to the Church' [sic], or I'll eventually have to excommunicate you, a fortiori if you consecrate new bishops"?  Or something like that.

    Somewhat related, do we know what is in the works for the St Jean Vianney group in Campos under Bishop Rifan?  We don't hear much about them anymore.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #14 on: March 26, 2023, 05:19:13 AM »
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  • It Is time to revisit the articles on this thread, it will make more sense now. If this is the time for the SSPX Prelature, which I doubt not, the consecration of more bishops ratified by Rome, makes perfect sense. These bishops would do the ordinations and the three bishops consecrated by ABL, would only administer the other sacraments.   

    The SSPX has a great influx now of panicking conservatives from indult communities. A few months ago we stopped at the SSPX chapel in Syracuse, NY while traveling and were told by a parishioner that the local bishop that "given" them a big church and that the priests were currently in talks with him. 

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/

    This letter may also be of interest to review the "6 propositions":

    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/McCall,Brian_Reply_Justice_Comments_10-13-12.htm
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)