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Offline nottambula

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THEY REPORT THAT THE POPE HAS DECIDED TO DELETE THE COMMISSION "ECCLESIA DEI"





ATTENTION: THIS COULD BE A STEP FOR THE REGULARIZATION OF THE FSSPX.


SOURCE: Messa in Latino (Abstract, underlined added by NP) This information has beenconfirmed by Marco Tosatti in his blog .

Unfortunately, reliable sources tell us, from different places and for several days, that the Pope has decided to dissolve the Pontifical Ecclesia Dei Commission, which, in a very short period of time - it seems that at the beginning of the year or during January -, it would be indiscriminately Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, of which it was already a part, but with its own identity and its own functions, which , with the Summorum Pontificum and the Universae Ecclesiae, have been considerably expanded compared to the original, substantially limited competences to the return of priests linked to the Tradition and in some way connected to the SSPX (see below).

We must ask ourselves some questions:

one. Will it be a mere administrative / organizational reorganization within the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, or will the intervention also extend to the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum and the Universae Ecclesiae, which explicitly foresee the existence of the Commission and assign specific tasks to it?

two. To whom will the stable groups go in the future to obtain the protection granted to them by the Motu Proprio and the Application Instruction?

3. Who will be appealed if the Bishops do not correctly apply the Motu Proprio?

Four. To whom will the faithful and the priests direct their doubts about the liturgical questions related to the ancient rite?

5. On whom will depend the Institutes that until now were called, precisely, "Ecclesia Dei"?

6 What will happen to the staff of the Commission?

7 Monsignor Guido Pozzo (67 years old today, my best wishes for Excellence), what new function will he have? Will he have it or will he end up as Card. Muller?


8
Who will be in charge of the relations with the FSSPX ?

9. Who will be in charge of the hundreds of priestly and religious vocations, of the numerous convents and monasteries that are still in process of creation, of the new religious groups, of the hundreds of thousands of the faithful and, in general, in the midst of the rupture? of the vocations, of the offerings and frequencies of the Masses- of the flowering of the new Catholic vocations?

The abolition of the Ecclesia Dei Commission responds to an old wish expressed by the SSPX, which has always seen the Commission as guarantor of the traditional "rival" groups in communion with Rome. The FSSPX prefers to deal directly with the CDF instead of a Commission under its authority. It seems that the Holy See considers it appropriate to comply with these requests ...

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"I think that he [Pope Benedict] was pushed... he semi-resigned... he didn't completely resign, he semi-resigned... he made way for another pope to take his place... but he kept, nevertheless, the white habit, he kept various things of the Papacy." - Bishop Williamson

Offline nottambula

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Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2018, 10:51:05 PM »
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  • LAST INFORMATION OF TOSATTI ABOUT "ECCLESIA DEI"



    Quote taken from the site of the Vaticanist Marco Tosatti:

    "The Motu Proprio, which establishes the end of Ecclesia Dei as an independent commission and its integration as an Office in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is ready, signed by the Pontiff, and should have been published last Thursday. reasons why the document has not yet been published.

    It is a fairly short legal text, in which it is said that the pastoral emergency linked to the celebration of the Vetus Ordo, which led to the creation of the Ecclesia Dei Commission thirty years ago, has come to an end ; and as a result, the Commission, too, in its current form, no longer has any reason to exist. " 
    ________________________

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    "I think that he [Pope Benedict] was pushed... he semi-resigned... he didn't completely resign, he semi-resigned... he made way for another pope to take his place... but he kept, nevertheless, the white habit, he kept various things of the Papacy." - Bishop Williamson


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #2 on: December 26, 2018, 11:24:41 PM »
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  • From the above link:

    FRANCISCO WOULD PRETEND TO USE THE FSSPX AS A CAGE FOR THE TRIDENTINE MASS

    RUMORS IN THE VATICAN: POPE FRANCIS PRETENDS TO END THE MASS IN LATIN

    ROME, July 26, 2017 ( LifeSiteNews ) : Vatican sources suggest that Pope Francis wants to end universal permission for priests to celebrate Pope Benedict's Traditional Latin Mass, also known as the "Extraordinary Form of the Mass." " While the line of action would be in tune with the expressly repeated disdain of Pope Francis for the Traditional Mass especially among young people, there has not been an open discussion of this to date.

    Sources in Rome told LifeSite last week that the liberal prelates within the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, were casually overheard discussing a plan attributed to the Pope to abolish Pope Benedict's famous document that gives priests the freedom to offer the ancient rite of the Mass.

    Traditionalist Catholics have just celebrated the tenth anniversary of the document, Summorum Pontificum. Pope Benedict issued it in 2007, giving all Latin Rite priests permission to offer the Traditional Mass without seeking the permission of their bishops, undoing the restriction imposed on priests after the Second Vatican Council.

    The motu proprio outraged the liberal bishops, since it took away the power to prohibit the traditional Mass, as many did. Previously the priests needed the permission of their bishop to offer this Mass.

    Additionally, Summorum Pontificum stated that wherever a group of faithful requested the Traditional Mass, the parish priests should gladly accept their request.  The plans that were heard are almost identical to the comments of a leading Italian liturgist in an interview published by La Croix earlier this month. Andrea Grillo, a lay professor at the Pontifical Athenaeum of San Anselmo in Rome, described by La Croix as "close to the Pope", is intimately familiar with Summorum Pontificum. In fact, Grillo published a book against Summorum Pontificum even before the papal document was published.

    Grillo told La Croix that Francisco is considering abolishing Summorum Pontificum. According to Grillo, once the Vatican erects the Fraternity of St. Pius X as a Personal Prelature, the Roman Rite will be preserved only within this structure. "But [Francisco] will not do it while Benedict XVI lives."

    The plan, as reported to LifeSite, involves making an agreement with the FSSPX and, with the agreement established, to confine Catholics who want the Traditional Mass to the SSPX. For most, this would take away their access to the Traditional Mass as there would not be enough SSPX priests to serve Catholics who want the Traditional Mass all over the world.

    Furthermore, the LifeSite source suggested that the plan could explain the May 20, 2017 letter by the recently dismissed Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Gerhard Müller. Although Cardinal Müller wanted the FSSPX to be completely reconciled to help fight Modernists in the Church, the letter of May 20 seemed to sink the agreement between Pope Francis and the SSPX, which would see them gain a personal prelature . The letter includes provisions that have long been completely unacceptable for the SSPX, thus nullifying the understanding that the FSSPX leader, Bishop Bernard Fellay, thought was imminent.

    The LifeSite source suggested that Müller's letter of May 20 was perhaps written because he knew what Francisco was up to and wanted to prevent the plan to bury the Summorum Pontificum with Pope Benedict. "It is directed not so much against Fellay but against the agreement," the source said. "Pope Francis was very angry that the document came from Cardinal Müller, and some say that's why he made the decision to dismiss him."  
    ###

    This announcement needs to be broadcast worldwide.
    When Rome approves the SSPX, this means that no more Latin Masses will be allowed anywhere else, so the SSPX will have a monopoly.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 07:40:40 AM »
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  • It also looks like they are waiting for Bennie to die.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 01:27:46 PM »
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  • It also looks like they are waiting for Bennie to die.
    It would not surprise me if Bennie were to be assassinated.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 01:42:19 PM »
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  • It would not surprise me if Bennie were to be assassinated.
    What doesn't make sense to me is that Bennie doesn't seem to give a darn what they do, so why wait until he dies?  I mean, honestly.  Does anyone really think if they put this through while he was still alive that he was going to condemn Francis for it??  :laugh1:
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline nottambula

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 03:35:29 PM »
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  • http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/farewell-pontifical-commission-ecclesia-dei

    Farewell Pontifical Commission ‘Ecclesia Dei’?

    The Vatican body aimed at keeping traditional Catholics united with the Successor of Peter looks likely to be suppressed, but sources suggest it could actually be a positive development.

    Edward Pentin

    Pope Francis is expected to issue a papal decree in the coming weeks that will effectively dissolve the pontifical commission charged with bringing separated traditionalist Catholics back into full communion.

    Various reliable sources have confirmed to the Register that the Pontifical Commission ‘Ecclesia Dei’ is to be abolished and its work absorbed into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, of which the commission is already a part.

    The Pope’s “motu proprio” authorizing the change is allegedly still in its drafting stages, but is expected to be published in January.

    Although some have voiced concern about the move, sources within the Vatican and elsewhere sympathetic to the commission are more sanguine, telling the Register that the structural change could be positive and actually facilitate regularization of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X.  

    Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre founded the SSPX in 1970 in response to errors he believed had entered into the Church following the Second Vatican Council. Pope St. John Paul II set up the Pontifical Commission in 1988 in response to Archbishop Lefebvre’s decision that year to consecrate four bishops without papal permission, a schismatic decision according to the Vatican which led to Archbishop Lefebvre’s excommunication along with those of the four bishops. Benedict XVI lifted the four bishops' excommunications in 2009.

    The commission’s role was primarily to care for Archbishop Lefebvre’s followers who wished to remain united with the successor of Peter, serving as the chief Vatican body in overseeing efforts to regularize the SSPX and bringing them back into full communion with Rome.

    The commission has also had the task of regularizing canonical situations of other religious communities of a traditionalist nature, giving them a canonical form corresponding to their charism.

    Added to this, the commission has had the responsibility of working with local bishops to facilitate Mass in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite (according to the 1962 Missal) for those faithful who request it, especially after Pope Benedict XVI’s 2007 motu proprio Summorum Pontificum which fully liberalized celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass if a “stable group” of faithful asks for it.

    But according to the French traditionalist website L’Homme Nouveau, the SSPX has viewed the Pontifical Commission as an obstacle to its negotiations with the Vatican and would prefer to deal directly with the prefect of the CDF, currently Cardinal Luis Ladaria Ferrer, rather than having to go through the current president of the Pontifical Commission ‘Ecclesia Dei’, Archbishop Guido Pozzo. After years of talks between Archbishop Pozzo and the Society, few if any achievements have been made, the article says.

    The rumored restructuring may therefore serve to address these concerns which the newly elected superior general of the SSPX, Father Davide Pagliarini, discussed with Cardinal Ladaria at a Nov. 22 meeting at the Vatican.

    In a statement issued after those talks, Father Pagliarini stressed that for the SSPX the “fundamental problem is actually doctrinal” which “remains absolutely essential,” and that similarly for the Holy See, no canonical status can be established for the Society “until after the signing of a doctrinal document.”

    “This restructuring is more likely a concession to the SSPX who aren’t interested in dealing with a structure like Ecclesia Dei,” said an informed Church source, adding that “what is central at the moment is discussion of doctrine rather than practical aspects.”
     
    Part of Curial Reform?

    Another possible reason for the suppression of the Pontifical Commission could be to do with the reforms of the Roman Curia. A new apostolic constitution, Predicate Evangelium (Preach the Gospel), is expected to be published in the first of months of the new year, and much of it is about streamlining curial offices and making them more cost-efficient. At the moment, Ecclesia Dei has a separate budget, so ending the structure and having its staff absorbed into the CDF could help achieve that as part of the curia-wide restructuring.

    It could also ensure that various aspects of the commission’s work related to liturgy and religious life are kept within the arguably more sympathetic confines of the CDF rather than delegated to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, where the interests of the SSPX and traditional Catholics in general are likely to receive a less favorable hearing among officials in both of those dicasteries (CDW prefect Cardinal Robert Sarah notwithstanding).

    Much of the alarm about the rumored changes stems from recent reports of some opposition to Summorum Pontificum within the Italian bishops’ conference, and a general belief — yet to be concretely proven — that Pope Francis wishes to repeal it and is opposed to the SSPX. Francis, however, has previously made a number of conciliatory gestures toward the Society, most notably granting all of its priests faculties to hear valid confessions during and after the Jubilee Year of Mercy.

    Benedict XVI was the first to integrate the commission into the CDF when in 2009 he made the Congregation’s prefect the ex officio head of Ecclesia Dei rather than a cardinal president, which was the case until then.

    For all these reasons, the general approach among sources both within the Vatican and among traditional Catholics is to “keep calm” and to wait and see what the final motu proprio communicates.
    "I think that he [Pope Benedict] was pushed... he semi-resigned... he didn't completely resign, he semi-resigned... he made way for another pope to take his place... but he kept, nevertheless, the white habit, he kept various things of the Papacy." - Bishop Williamson

    Offline nottambula

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 03:39:11 PM »
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  • SYNTHESIS OF THE NOVELTIES ABOUT "ECCLESIA DEI"

    The headquarters of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to which the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei belongs

    Quote from Vaticanist Marco Tosatti: "It is not a mystery that the reigning pontiff and a good part of his power group (in particular the prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Stella, one of the many Beria of the Vatican) , love, like the smoke in your eyes, everything that reminds you of the tradition, but that you have decided to push the Catholics to fill the churches of the SSPX, killing the liturgy Vetus Ordo seems really surreal. "A Cryptolefebvrist pontiff? ! " (from the article "Ecclesia Dei liquidada? Credible voices, we hope not." ). 

    Tosatti and, in general, the conservatives who value the Tridentine mass, think that the objective of the suppression or transformation of the pontifical commission Eclessia Dei, would be to restrict severely or, in fact, to prohibit the celebration of the mass according to the vetus ordo; what would cause that the faithful who at the moment attend the tridentine Masses celebrated according to the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum , are forced to emigrate en masse to the SSPX. Fearing this attack on the Tridentine mass, Tosatti expresses his hope that the suppression or transformation of Ecclesia Dei will not take effect.

    Others, however (see here and here ), maintain, for some time now, that Pope Francis intends to "kill two birds with one stone": restrict the vetus ordo and control the SSPX, giving it the great Greek gift of a sort of world monopoly on the celebration of the "extraordinary rite" (which necessarily involves the regularization of the Fraternity).

    Another very important quote from Tosatti: "The Motu Proprio that establishes the end of Ecclesia Dei as an independent commission ... says that the pastoral emergency linked to the celebration of Vetus Ordo has come to an end, which led to the creation of the Commission Ecclesia Dei thirty years ago, and as a result, also the Commission, in its current form, no longer has any reason to exist. " source ) What was that "pastoral emergency"? For the existence of a congregation that, outside the control of liberal and modernist Rome, was able to attract to itself the Catholics who wanted to continue fighting in defense of the Catholic faith. According to the same Monsignor Lefebvre, this is the true purpose of Ecclesia Dei: it is, he said, a "Roman commission that is responsible for the recovery of the traditionalists to submit them to the Council" ( source ) . That is why some reasonably assume that the regularization of the SSPX is close.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com%2F2018%2F12%2Fsintesis-de-las-novedades-con-ecclesia.html&langpair=auto%7Cen&hl=en
    "I think that he [Pope Benedict] was pushed... he semi-resigned... he didn't completely resign, he semi-resigned... he made way for another pope to take his place... but he kept, nevertheless, the white habit, he kept various things of the Papacy." - Bishop Williamson


    Online Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 12:00:41 PM »
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  • It all boils down to what Una Voce Malta reported in October 2017. The SSPX Prelature is around the corner with all the indult communities under the SSPX or they will have to accept the changes to the missal but remember that even the SSPX exemption will be only temporary.  

    It's about time the Resistance damp the 1962 Missal. It was only transitional in 1962 and is still transitional in 2018 to bring the SSPX and indult communities back to the Novus Ordo.


    Quote
    http://pro-tridentina-malta.blogspot.com/2017/10/breaking-news-massive-liturgical.html
     
    Sunday, October 8, 2017
    Breaking News: Massive liturgical changes expected in 2018!

    Reliable sources close to the Holy See have indicated that sometime in the second half of 2018, the Novus Ordo Lectionary and Calendar are to be imposed upon the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Mass.

    The new Roman Missal will become available on the First Sunday of Advent 2018 but the Vatican will allow a two-year period to phase it in. These changes are expected to be much more drastic than what was envisaged in Universae Ecclesiae that states:
    25. New saints and certain of the new prefaces can and ought to be inserted into the 1962 Missal, according to provisions which will be indicated subsequently. (emphasis ours)

    The Vatican approved societies and institutes, such as the Fraternity of Saint Peter and the Institute of Christ the King, will likely apply for exemptions, but all requests are expected to be turned down. The only exception seems to be the SSPX, which might be granted a temporary exemption, to ensure that an agreement is reached between the SSPX and Rome.  However, if the exemption granted will be of a temporary nature, more SSPX priests are expected to join the so-called Resistance (formerly known as SSPX-SO) under Bishop Richard Williamson and more will go independent.This would make the traditional Catholic movement more fragmented than ever before.

    (some emphasis mine), original link provided.



    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 12:14:14 PM »
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  • Good, get rid of the whole "ecclesia dei" commission/law/motu proprio, which is a distraction and a subversion of the only law that matters (and which is still in effect): Quo Primum.

    Let +Francis gut the traditional movement and see how the younger generations react - many of whom have discovered the TLM and see the emptyness of the novus ordo.  Let all the "conservative" catholics in the novus ordo truly see the evil and anti-catholic aims of the V2 hierarchy and what V2's real purpose was - destruction of the true faith.  Then, maybe they'll wake up!  Maybe they'll leave the V2 church!

    Meanwhile, Quo Primum remains in effect, it's permissions to say the TLM remain, it's command to ONLY use the TLM missal remains and it's obligation for catholics to avoid any other missals, still stand in force, under penalty of sin.  Getting rid of the "ecclesia dei" fiasco will just make the battle lines clearer.


    Offline poche

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #10 on: January 01, 2019, 01:16:54 AM »
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  • From the above link:

    FRANCISCO WOULD PRETEND TO USE THE FSSPX AS A CAGE FOR THE TRIDENTINE MASS

    RUMORS IN THE VATICAN: POPE FRANCIS PRETENDS TO END THE MASS IN LATIN

    ROME, July 26, 2017 ( LifeSiteNews ) : Vatican sources suggest that Pope Francis wants to end universal permission for priests to celebrate Pope Benedict's Traditional Latin Mass, also known as the "Extraordinary Form of the Mass." " While the line of action would be in tune with the expressly repeated disdain of Pope Francis for the Traditional Mass especially among young people, there has not been an open discussion of this to date.

    Sources in Rome told LifeSite last week that the liberal prelates within the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, were casually overheard discussing a plan attributed to the Pope to abolish Pope Benedict's famous document that gives priests the freedom to offer the ancient rite of the Mass.

    Traditionalist Catholics have just celebrated the tenth anniversary of the document, Summorum Pontificum. Pope Benedict issued it in 2007, giving all Latin Rite priests permission to offer the Traditional Mass without seeking the permission of their bishops, undoing the restriction imposed on priests after the Second Vatican Council.

    The motu proprio outraged the liberal bishops, since it took away the power to prohibit the traditional Mass, as many did. Previously the priests needed the permission of their bishop to offer this Mass.

    Additionally, Summorum Pontificum stated that wherever a group of faithful requested the Traditional Mass, the parish priests should gladly accept their request.  The plans that were heard are almost identical to the comments of a leading Italian liturgist in an interview published by La Croix earlier this month. Andrea Grillo, a lay professor at the Pontifical Athenaeum of San Anselmo in Rome, described by La Croix as "close to the Pope", is intimately familiar with Summorum Pontificum. In fact, Grillo published a book against Summorum Pontificum even before the papal document was published.

    Grillo told La Croix that Francisco is considering abolishing Summorum Pontificum. According to Grillo, once the Vatican erects the Fraternity of St. Pius X as a Personal Prelature, the Roman Rite will be preserved only within this structure. "But [Francisco] will not do it while Benedict XVI lives."

    The plan, as reported to LifeSite, involves making an agreement with the FSSPX and, with the agreement established, to confine Catholics who want the Traditional Mass to the SSPX. For most, this would take away their access to the Traditional Mass as there would not be enough SSPX priests to serve Catholics who want the Traditional Mass all over the world.

    Furthermore, the LifeSite source suggested that the plan could explain the May 20, 2017 letter by the recently dismissed Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Gerhard Müller. Although Cardinal Müller wanted the FSSPX to be completely reconciled to help fight Modernists in the Church, the letter of May 20 seemed to sink the agreement between Pope Francis and the SSPX, which would see them gain a personal prelature . The letter includes provisions that have long been completely unacceptable for the SSPX, thus nullifying the understanding that the FSSPX leader, Bishop Bernard Fellay, thought was imminent.

    The LifeSite source suggested that Müller's letter of May 20 was perhaps written because he knew what Francisco was up to and wanted to prevent the plan to bury the Summorum Pontificum with Pope Benedict. "It is directed not so much against Fellay but against the agreement," the source said. "Pope Francis was very angry that the document came from Cardinal Müller, and some say that's why he made the decision to dismiss him."  
    ###

    This announcement needs to be broadcast worldwide.
    When Rome approves the SSPX, this means that no more Latin Masses will be allowed anywhere else, so the SSPX will have a monopoly.
    I have never thought of the celebration of the TLM as any kind of 'emergency.'


    Offline nottambula

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #11 on: January 01, 2019, 01:17:57 AM »
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  • http://www.mondayvatican.com/vatican/pope-francis-what-if-he-shuts-down-ecclesia-dei

    Pope Francis, what if he shuts down Ecclesia Dei?
    by ANDREA GAGLIARDUCCI on 31 DICEMBRE 2018 · LEAVE A COMMENT · in VATICAN
    After 30 years, the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei might cease to exist. Established by St. John Paul II right after the Lefevbrist schism in 1988, in order to entertain a dialogue with traditionalist parties, the commission was reformed by Benedict XVI with the 2009 instruction Universae Ecclesiae. The instruction linked the commission to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, since the issues were now mostly doctrinal. Pope Francis might take it a step further, turning the commission into a mere office of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

    The news was given with certain concern by the traditionalist blog Messa in Latino on the 26th of December. The same blog added these revealing comment to the already published post: “The suppression of the Ecclesia Dei Commission corresponds to a long time wish of the St. Pius X Priestly Fraternity, that has always seen the commission as a guarantor of competitor traditional groups that are in communion with Rome.”

    What would Pope Francis’ decision mean?

    If Messa in Latino was right, Pope Francis would be showing a preference for the Society St. Pius X, the SSPX, also known as Lefevbrist.

    This preference could be seen in many clues. For the Extraordinary Holy Year of Mercy, Pope Francis decreed that confessions and weddings celebrated by SSPX priests were canonically valid. It was a step towards reconciliation. Confessions and marriages need specific authorization to be considered valid, and the effective validity of marriages celebrated by Lefevbrists had been questioned. The Pope made the decision to consider all of them valid. It was 2015.

    In that very year, Cardinal Aurelio Poli, archbishop of Buenos Aires, gave the green light to the Argentinian government to register the SSPX as a “diocesan association”. A great SSPX pilgrimage to Lourdes was given permission to have their priests celebrate the Eucharist in the Basilica of Lourdes. Always in 2015, the then SSPX superior Bernard Fellay was appointed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith a judge of first appeal in a case of abuse that involved a SSPX member. The SSPX has always appealed to Vatican authorities in delicta graviora cases (the gravest crimes, that include abuse), but it was the first time the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith appointed Bishop Fellay as a judge.

    After the appointment of Fr. Davide Pagliarani as new superior of the Fraternity, Vatican – SSPX talks continued. Pagliarani met on November 22nd with Cardinal Luis Ladaria, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. A SSPX press release after the dialogue stressed, once again, that issues of disagreement are mostly doctrinal.

    Pope Francis’ alleged decision to dissolve Ecclesia Dei would follow Benedict XVI’s path: the Pope emeritus linked the pontifical commission to the congregation because the disagreement was mostly doctrinal, as liturgical issues were no longer a problem after 2007 motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, which liberalized celebrations according to the old rite.

    Benedict XVI rationale was simple: the old rite (vetus ordo) was not suppressed, and so any fundamentalism on celebrations could only generate splits. By overcoming the rite issue, only doctrinal matters remained to be solved.

    It is worth remembering that the Holy See presented to the SSPX a doctrinal preamble that the SSPX would have to accept to rejoin the Catholic Church. Those who saw the document said that the preamble was “really the minimum requirements,” and included the society’s acceptance of the Second Vatican Council, which is a controversial issue for the SSPX.

    After Benedict XVI had lifted the excommunication to the three bishops illicitly ordained by the SSPX founder, Bishop Lefevbre, the SSPX was also – according to well-grounded rumors – offered the possibility to be a personal prelature. The only personal prelature in the Catholic Church is, for now, Opus Dei.

    The talks were conducted by Archbishop Guido Pozzo, president of Ecclesia Dei, but they did not bear fruit. The election of the new SSPX superior re-opened the issue, as Pagliarani is certainly more radical, from a doctrinal point of view, than Bishop Fellay, his predecessor, though Fellay was not easygoing with Rome.

    The election of Pagliarani shows how the SSPX is struggling to keep the core of its identity.

    It is noteworthy that under Pope Francis, dialogue with the traditionalist world was however more advanced with the SSPX than with other traditionalist labels, even when these were in communion with the Catholic Church.

    There is the Fraternity St. Peter, established 30 years ago to welcome those who wanted to leave the Lefevbrist and that carries forward the charism of celebrating the ancient rite.

    And there are more traditionalist realities that had problems with Rome during Pope Francis’ pontificate. For example, Familia Christi, a traditionalist group in the Italian archdiocese of Ferrara – Comacchio. Pope Francis recently sent as commissioner Rome’s auxiliary bishop Daniele Libanori.

    In the past, the Fraternity of the Saint Apostles in Brussels was ousted by Cardinal Jozef de Kesel for unclear reasons – formally, because it was a French order, not Belgian. The Fraternity had been previously welcomed by Archbishop André Joseph Leonard, Cardinal de Kesel’s predecessors, and revitalized the St. Catherine’s church in Brussels, which was closed and was going to become a general market.

    At the beginning of the pontificate, the case of the Franciscans of the Immaculate broke out. Despite all the allegations and speculations, the Franciscans of the Immaculate were also likely victims of an internal discussion among Franciscan orders.

    All of these congregations did not, however, enjoy the same Roman benevolence that the SSPX enjoyed. Obviously, they are all different cases, and each of them requires an in depth analysis. However, the ideological prejudice according to which Pope Francis would punish conservatives and reward progressives does not hold if one considers the bridges the Pope has built with the Lefevbrists.

    Once again, Pope Francis’ way of governing is revealed. Why does he act this way, then?

    One hypothesis can be advanced. While the Lefevbrists are a well structured and defined reality, and the dialogue with them can be sharp, traditionalist groups within the Church are, in the end, small groups, though the number of their followers is increasing. Pope Francis is likely more concerned of having many small groups within the Catholic Church than of facing a single group outside the Church.

    Dialogue with the SSPX will not be possible on theological issues, despite hopes to the contrary. Dialogue on theology with small traditionalist groups within the Church can lead to a dialectic that can undermine unity.

    Pope Francis has always stressed that unity need not be uniformity, but he also believes in the Holy Hierarchical Mother Church. For this reason, those who somebody considers “rebel” groups can be more problematic to him than the SSPX.

    In addition to that, according to MessainLatino, the Lefevbrists had asked to talk directly with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, showing that they understood Pope Francis design. The Congregation is strengthening, as evident in the appointment of Archbishop Charles J. Scicluna as adjunct secretary. This appointment is part of a wider project which aims at centralizing decisions. In this project, the Congregation is a focal point, especially in tackling the abuse cases.

    In the end, all of the indications point to Pope Francis progressively centralizing decision making. Dialogue is addressed from the center to the periphery, and not vice versa. Hence, the decision of sending a commissioner or looking attentively at the various peripheral realities within the Church.

    If Pope Francis will carry out the dissolution of Ecclesia Dei, this must be examined. However, Pope Francis’ decision might not come immediately. It could simply be included in the new apostolic constitution on functions and tasks of the Curia offices, that Pope Francis wants to personally revise. Or it could be carried out now and then certified in the reform, according to the model of the reform while walking.
    "I think that he [Pope Benedict] was pushed... he semi-resigned... he didn't completely resign, he semi-resigned... he made way for another pope to take his place... but he kept, nevertheless, the white habit, he kept various things of the Papacy." - Bishop Williamson

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #12 on: January 01, 2019, 01:53:12 AM »
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  • SYNTHESIS OF THE NOVELTIES ABOUT "ECCLESIA DEI"

    The headquarters of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to which the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei belongs

    Quote from Vaticanist Marco Tosatti: "It is not a mystery that the reigning pontiff and a good part of his power group (in particular the prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Stella, one of the many Beria of the Vatican) , love, like the smoke in your eyes, everything that reminds you of the tradition, but that you have decided to push the Catholics to fill the churches of the SSPX, killing the liturgy Vetus Ordo seems really surreal. "A Cryptolefebvrist pontiff? ! " (from the article "Ecclesia Dei liquidada? Credible voices, we hope not." ).

    Tosatti and, in general, the conservatives who value the Tridentine mass, think that the objective of the suppression or transformation of the pontifical commission Eclessia Dei, would be to restrict severely or, in fact, to prohibit the celebration of the mass according to the vetus ordo; what would cause that the faithful who at the moment attend the tridentine Masses celebrated according to the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum , are forced to emigrate en masse to the SSPX. Fearing this attack on the Tridentine mass, Tosatti expresses his hope that the suppression or transformation of Ecclesia Dei will not take effect.

    Others, however (see here and here ), maintain, for some time now, that Pope Francis intends to "kill two birds with one stone": restrict the vetus ordo and control the SSPX, giving it the great Greek gift of a sort of world monopoly on the celebration of the "extraordinary rite" (which necessarily involves the regularization of the Fraternity).

    Another very important quote from Tosatti: "The Motu Proprio that establishes the end of Ecclesia Dei as an independent commission ... says that the pastoral emergency linked to the celebration of Vetus Ordo has come to an end, which led to the creation of the Commission Ecclesia Dei thirty years ago, and as a result, also the Commission, in its current form, no longer has any reason to exist. " ( source ) What was that "pastoral emergency"? For the existence of a congregation that, outside the control of liberal and modernist Rome, was able to attract to itself the Catholics who wanted to continue fighting in defense of the Catholic faith. According to the same Monsignor Lefebvre, this is the true purpose of Ecclesia Dei: it is, he said, a "Roman commission that is responsible for the recovery of the traditionalists to submit them to the Council" ( source ) . That is why some reasonably assume that the regularization of the SSPX is close.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com%2F2018%2F12%2Fsintesis-de-las-novedades-con-ecclesia.html&langpair=auto%7Cen&hl=en
    If there were to be some kind of reorganization could it be that a reorganization would really serve to strengthen teh presence of the TLM in the life of the Church?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #13 on: January 01, 2019, 12:33:37 PM »
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  • New-Rome doesn’t care about the TLM because it cares about the Novus Ordo, which is the complete opposite of the True Liturgy.  New-Rome is waiting, like a spider in its web, for the neo-sspx to sign over their properties and souls, then the TLM will be hidden in a “prelature” and banished from most dioceses.  This prelature will include all the indult masses (FSSP, ICK, etc) and they’ll all be consolidated and controlled together under a few “quasi traditional” bishops.  Slowly and gradually, new-Rome will “update” and “modernize” this prelature until (they demonically hope) the TLM will be an empty shell of itself (just like the post 1962 liturgies were an “updating” and “modernization” of the 1962 missal).

    If you deal with new-Rome, you’ll either become a Novus Ordo heretic or a lukewarm “conservative”.  But you’ll never stay a true orthodox catholic.  You can’t play with fire without getting burned. 

    Online Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #14 on: January 01, 2019, 12:35:56 PM »
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  • Time to trash the 1962 Transitional Missal (Extraordinary Form of the Novus Ordo)
    and claim the pre-Bugnini by right.


    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2018/12/a-pact-between-pope-francis-and-society.html#more

    Monday, December 31, 2018
    A Pact Between Pope Francis and the Society of Saint Pius X for the Isolation of Tradition?

    Is Pope Francis preparing to eliminate the Ecclesia Dei communities with the help of the Pius Brotherhood?

    (Rome) More and more voices are dealing with the rumors that the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei is about to be dissolved.

    The two authors Fabrizio Cannone and Alessandro Rico see it as a papal maneuver to assassinate tradition from behind. Anzeige Fabrizio Cannone, born in 1974, holds a Doctorate in Church History and Religious Studies, and has written for Corrispondenza Romana, Fides Catholica, Homme Nouveau and numerous other Catholic media. Most recently, he published the book: "The Inconvenient Pope. History and background of the beatification of Pius IX." (1)

    Alessandro Rico, born in 1991, studied philosophy at the Sapienza and Political History of Ideas at the LUISS in Rome. In 2017 he published together with Lorenzo Castellani the book "The end of politics? Technocracy, Populism, Multiculturalism". (2) He calls himself a "Catholic, Conservative and Opponent of Political Correctness". Both are close to the Catholic tradition.



    In recent days, the rumors have been nearly confirmed that Pope Francis in January 2019 will dissolve the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei and their tasks will be transferred to the Congregation of the Faith.


    Quote
    "It's a decision that could hide a new chapter in the Vatican war between progressives and conservatives. With this step, Francis wants to start another offensive against his adversaries."


    The Commission Ecclesia Dei was established in 1988 by John Paul II. It became the roof for the then and later emerging communities of tradition that remained in unity with Rome, when Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the newly-consecrated bishops of the Society of St. Pius X (FSSPX) were declared excommunicated by Rome.

    With the election of Benedict XVI. in addition, it was entrusted with discussions with the Society in preparation for reconciliation and canonical recognition. The Commission, headed by Curial Archbishop Guido Pozzo as Secretary, is also responsible for questions on the traditional form of the Roman Rite.

    "Although Pozzo is not an ultra-conservative," the authors said, he has worked hard to bring the Society back into unity with Rome. "In the past, he rebuked the prelates who opposed the Tridentine Mass, which he regularly celebrates, so that he is a reference point for those who are still attached to the ancient Rite."

    Pope Francis' new measure would therefore affect especially Archbishop Pozzo, who "was never disobedient to the Church". The Pope knows that the prelate would also submit to a dismissal from his present task without resistance.

    However, Monsignor Pozzo was not only very popular with Pope Francis, but also - albeit for other reasons - with the Society. Both sides do not bother with the person, but with the institution he represents, with which the popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. have institutionalized tradition.  Pope Francis, because he sees neither need for this institutionalization nor understanding of the tradition.

    In the past, he spoke of a "temporary fashion" that he could not understand. The Society is struck by this, because it sees itself as the exclusive patron of tradition, recognizing "competition" in the Commission of Ecclesia Dei and the Ecclesia Dei communities. There are resentments that go back to the year 1988, when the Motu proprio Ecclesia Dei was seen as a Roman countermeasure to the Society. This view is still to be found in the Society 30 years later.

    The Society has petitioned in Rome its desire to be able to talk directly with the Congregation of the Faith, and not with the subordinate commission Ecclesia Dei.

    Quote
    "The pope, who finds it hard to bear the clergy and the faithful who are bound to the pre-Conciliar Mass, seized the opportunity to strike a direct blow to the conservative front by marginalizing Archbishop [Pozzo] without giving advantage to the traditional liturgy."

    At the same time Francis tries to play the two traditionalist souls against each other. He relied on the desire for revenge by the Society against the resulting "competition" of the Ecclesia Dei communities. The Society, according to the assessment of Francis, also felt "more and more pressure" to come to an agreement with Rome.  Only three bishops have  remained since the expulsion of Richard Williamson, whose ages are 73, 61 and 60. In the Society there is a desire for more bishops.

    If everything does not start all over again in 1988, it needs the consent of the ruling Pope. The authors underline that it is understandable in this context that in the circles of the Ecclesia Dei communities, the apparently imminent dissolution of the Ecclesia Dei Commission is understood as a "pact between Lefebvrians and Francis to the detriment of the other communities of tradition".  And further:

    Quote
    "Progressives are known to aim to free themselves from any remnant of the pre-Conciliar liturgy, even though Mass in its traditional form, attracts more and more believers, in contrast to many flat and disjointed Masses celebrated in our parishes. In November, Msgr. Roberto Maria Radaelli, Bishop of Gorizia, even claimed that Summorum Pontificum, the motu proprio of Benedict XVI, with which the Latin mass was restored, was not valid under Canon Law. "

    In 2017, in a RAI interview, the progressive liturgist Andrea Grillo demanded that the traditional Rite be allowed only for a small, well-defined group that was to be strictly defined and controlled. His words were understood by observers as a requirement to create a closely guarded, exotic reserve for the Society of Saint Pius X, while the other communities of tradition now in unity with Rome should be deprived of their right to exist. Rico and Cannone are of the opinion that Pope Francis has made this demand his strategy with the aim of first eliminating the Ecclesia Dei communities with the help of the Society and then putting the Society on a short leash. They conclude with a question which, even after almost six years of Pope Francis' pontificate, has found no real answer:

    "But why so much acrimony against the Tridentine Mass? The Catholic Church, shaken by sexual scandals and the plague of homosexual, pedophile priests, has very different concerns to worry about. In the Vatican, however, it still seems to be a priority to punish the Lord's Prayer, the cassock and receiving Communion while kneeling on the tongue. "
    Text: Giuseppe Nardi
    Image: La Verità (screenshot) ______________________________
    Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

     

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