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Author Topic: More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran  (Read 94848 times)

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Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« Reply #270 on: October 25, 2015, 02:33:54 AM »
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  • I don't see how Frs P and H could overlook these things in their own "investigation" unless they are blinded by their desire for a tame bishop.

    Offline Matthew

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #271 on: October 25, 2015, 08:08:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    2+2=Ambrose


    2✖️0 = Ambrose


    "2 + 1 = 5" = Ambrose.

    Or,

    "Pig + button X friendship = music" = Ambrose

    Or for the programmers among us:

    if (ambrose) {
       // This code will never get executed.
    }
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #272 on: October 26, 2015, 10:23:25 PM »
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  • I missed this in the anonymous subforum.  Maybe others missed it too.

    Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    This comment has been posted here:

    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.in/2015/10/fr-chazal-on-bishop-ambrose-or-bishop.html#comment-form


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AnonymousOctober 15, 2015 at 7:00 AM

    Update:
    I have spoken with a priest of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church who I personally know quite well. He has informed me that he knew this man as "Archbishop Ambrose Moran" on Long Island, NY in the years 2004-2005. He told me that Moran claimed to be a bishop of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church. This priest I know told me that he offered the funeral mass for what he believed, at the time, to be Moran's mother. The date was January 26, 2005. Moran was able to sing in Slavonic during the Mass. Moran had a chapel inside a private home in East Islip, NY but he had no visible means of support and no parish. About one year after the elderly woman (who was presumed to be his mother) had died, Moran told this priest the government was taking the house in East Islip away from him and that he would have to leave. Had the elderly woman my priest friend buried really been Moran's mother? The priest had not seen a death certificate, which wasn't unusual, and he assumed the funeral home had obtained one. But he has no record of which funeral home was involved in the burial. My priest friend began to have his doubts about Moran due to other things he noticed in the intervening time frame between the burial and Moran's departure/disappearance.

    My friend contacted retired Bishop Basil Losten (Eparchy of Stamford, CT) and Bishop Losten has confirmed, that to his knowledge, this man is not a priest nor is he a bishop. There is more to this that I don't wish to add here. If the moderator would like to know more, please advise.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    The website Catholic Hierarchy says that Bishop Losten can be contacted via the Eparchy of Stamford, CT.


    Bishop(s)

        Paul Patrick Chomnycky, O.S.B.M., Bishop (61.41)
        Basil Harry Losten, Bishop Emeritus (85.43)

       
    General Information

        Type of Jurisdiction: Eparchy
        Elevated: 10 July 1958
        Metropolitan: Archeparchy of Philadelphia (Ukrainian)
        Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Byzantine Tradition
        Country: United States of America
        Conference Region: XV (Eastern Rites)
        Web Site: http://members.tripod.com/~cerkva/index.html
        Mailing Address: 161 Glenbrook Rd., Stamford, CT 06902, USA
        Telephone: (203)324-7698
        Fax: 357-7681

    Offline Matthew

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #273 on: October 27, 2015, 09:05:48 PM »
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  • I got rid of TEN pages of fluff, sidetracks, redundant material, and other non-essential contributions to the thread, at least for archiving purposes.

    After several posts talking about the same thing (the unwieldiness and intimidating nature of this thread) I decided it was time to trim it down.

    After all, if everyone visiting CathInfo from now on is intimidated by the size of this thread, and no one else reads it, then what good is it?

    So right now ALL 54 pages are good content. A few short posts, observations, comments, etc. but everything trim-able has been trimmed.

    HERE YOU GO:
    A complete PDF of this entire thread, 114 pages in color PDF format.
    Print it out on your printer, read it offline, read it on your tablet while offline, you name it!


    165 MB download:
    http://www.cathinfo.com/ambrose.pdf
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #274 on: October 28, 2015, 01:47:04 PM »
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  • .

    Quote from: LucasL
    Isidore Borecky assinature [signature]... thoughts?




    Here is what I thought about these two signatures:  

    First, the separation of letters in the second example seems to be one of two things, either this was how the person signing would write as a very young person, or else someone who is just practicing how to write a NEW name, such as after a name change.  If one learns to sign his name with cursive style from the beginning, he does not then switch to separate letters later in life, unless he's signing a DIFFERENT name.  Therefore, the dates associated with these two sigs ought to be considered since the first example should be more recent (older person) and the second example should be earlier (younger person).  The age of the person signing the first example is likely older furthermore, because the roughness and hesitant movement of the pen in the first example is much greater than the second example, which is what happens to elderly people, or when some neurological problem makes writing more difficult, such as after a stroke or even heart problems.

    Second,  there are various things wrong with each sig, but they're not the same things.  It's as though the signer for A had particular problems but the signer for B had different problems.  The first "I" in the second example was written with the pen beginning with the horizontal top with a little curve in it to the right, then abruptly flows down to the left and circles clockwise around the "+", then without interruption flows up into the "S" shape that finishes off the letter "I."  Remember that this is the version where many of the other letters are broken apart, written separately, not cursively.  The letter "I" at the beginning of the second example is a typically cursive style, whereas the rest of the same signature is not cursive at all, with the two exceptions of the "s" immediately following the "I" in Isadore and the "r" in Borecky.  Do not miss the fact that the "r" in Isadore is a printed letter, and therefore entirely different in style from the cursive "r" in Borecky.  This person was very much at ease with writing the initial "I" in cursive style, whereas the person in the first example was very much ILL at ease writing the initial "I."  The "I" in the first example is all chopped up, and it's not easy to see what came first and what followed.  If the same process of stroke as found in the second example is presumed, the parts of the first example "I" do not seem to fit the pattern, for from the very start, there is no top horizontal beginning stroke at all, but rather it seems to start at the bottom, circling the "+" clockwise, then stopping abruptly in the place where the second example flows smoothly into the rising "S" shape to finish the "I."  This interrupted movement is only found by using the second example as a guide to the first example.

    The first example has two r's in "Borrecky," and has no final "e" in Isidore.  There is a bothersome line striking diagonally down through the capital B. The "k" in the first example is nothing like the one in the second, and the "y" that follows each is likewise very different comparing the two signatures.  The first one looks more like a "z."  There is no hint of any dot over the "i" in Isidore in the first signature, whereas it is prominent and part of the signing in the second signature.

    Finally, among the inconsistencies is to be seen a small counterclockwise circle in three places in the second example, which are not found at all in the first example.  One is in the base of the small "s" the second letter of Isidore.  The next is the start of the letter "B" in Borecky, which is missing in the first example.  The third is at the top of the letter "c."  If it were only one place perhaps it would be excusable, but two places is more of a pattern.  This is in three places -- so it's rather convincing that a different hand was holding the pen than in the first example. The top of the "B" in the first example is unfortunately missing, but the top of the same "B" in the second example is discontinuous, as if how to draw the second half of the same letter had to be thought about before moving forward.  When someone signs his name he does not normally stop and think about it mid-signature.  But these two examples have multiple stops, especially the second example, giving the impression that the signer had to stop and think along the way to remember what he wants this signature to look like this time.  

    Poorly done forgeries often have multiple inconsistencies.

    I uploaded a copy of the image from LucasL's post so this can be in the CI archives.  I recall having read someone's comments on these two signatures but I can't find them now.  55 pages is a lot to search through.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #275 on: October 28, 2015, 02:03:29 PM »
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  • Peoples signatures can change substantially from time to time.I myself have received a few calls from my bank over the years questioning whether my signature on checks was genuine because they aroused suspicion.

    Offline Colombiere

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #276 on: October 28, 2015, 02:50:18 PM »
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  • Was Bishop Borecky Polish? Was Polish his first language and does the second signature have any similarities with handwritten Polish or Russian? The first signature looks like a typical North American mess. It's odd to me that the first signature seems to try to write the capital letter I with the loops, sort of, and then completely ignores copying the rest of the second signature.

    Offline Colombiere

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #277 on: October 28, 2015, 03:14:38 PM »
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  • I don't know if it's been uploaded on here but Bishop Kirkland's Orthodox certicate of consecration is available online. It's on the same stationary and has the same address and phone number as Moran's ordination paper. Ilnyckyj's signature can be compaired on those two docuмents if anyone wants to.


    Offline sea leopard

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #278 on: October 28, 2015, 03:22:22 PM »
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  • Fr. Pfeiffer should not be sad alone. In fact Moran was not investigated by the Ukranian Catholic Church as well and the ultimate task to unmask him was left to you and a few good members here which by October 11 (when I joined) was already exposed and confirmed that Ambrose can be anything but a good liar.

    Good reminder above      and  

    Did not the SSPX some years back look into his "credentials"  and did they not discount him??.........(Fr. Ward I think.)

    Anyone still with/inside the SSPX to shed more light on this individual. Please come forward.

    Thank you.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #279 on: October 28, 2015, 03:24:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    Peoples signatures can change substantially from time to time. I myself have received a few calls from my bank over the years questioning whether my signature on checks was genuine because they aroused suspicion.

    You have a good bank.  They SHOULD check signatures but all too often do NOT.  I had to challenge a check that had been debited from my checking balance, when only after I had requested a copy of it did I see that it was not my check.  It had someone else's name and address on it, some entirely different signature that was not even remotely close to any of the letters in my name, and was payable to a company name I had never heard of.  The only thing that matched my account was the number printed at the bottom.  The bank agreed it was fraud and refunded the lost money, as I recall around $600, but they could not explain how such a bad fake could have made it through the system.

    I don't claim to be an expert in handwriting, and it's true as you say that signatures can change over time.  However, if it is the same person, in my experience, a certain style that existed let's say early in life, is very likely to still exist many years later in life.  Any good bank looking at these two example signatures would have to be suspicious.

    That's why it would be nice to know if the first example above is more recent, that is, to be found on a docuмent that is not very old, and if the second example is from an earlier docuмent and therefore written by a younger person -- assuming it was the same person writing it as the person who wrote the first example.  For if the first example is on a docuмent from say 40 years ago and the second example is from a docuмent of 5 years ago, to me, that would be a serious red flag.

    Signatures can change over time, but it's hard to imagine how this signature could change from the first example into the second example at a later date.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #280 on: October 28, 2015, 03:38:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Colombiere
    ... It's odd to me that the first signature seems to try to write the capital letter I with the loops, sort of, and then completely ignores copying the rest of the second signature.

    I thought the same thing.  It's almost like he gave up trying after the first letter was so difficult.  That would also explain the gaps in the second example, where the signer may have been stopping to check how the next letter ought to appear, even if rendering a close imitation would be to much trouble.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Matthew

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #281 on: October 28, 2015, 04:21:56 PM »
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  • Again, I'd like to point out just how DIFFERENT the various pictures of Ambrose are.

    Each picture a different place, a different "look", even a different Rite in some cases. This man will go where the money is.

    Look at him in Boston, KY right now (on the 30 days in Boston site). He looks *totally* different from any of his past pictures. Now he's playing the Trad Bishop. He has a purple cassock, which assaults our Trad senses with the apparent reality "I'm a bishop".

    Just like it would take you aback if I was carrying around some unconsecrated hosts before Mass. If you went too much on "appearances", such things would throw you off more than usual. If your mind was more simplistic, "see a host, worship God" it would bother you more. But other people might do more thinking habitually -- has this been consecrated during a valid Mass? etc. before you go into "adoration" mode.

    Reason is SO much more error proof than feelings and the senses. Think of a priest who grew up on emotion and sense. What happens when he starts to experience dryness? What happens when he starts to handle sacred things on a regular basis -- for example, the altar bread and Consecrated Hosts? He will notice just how similar they are, and he might have doubts about his Faith, and Transubstantiation in particular. If his faith didn't have an intellectual or "pure reason" dimension, his Faith is toast.

    I could put on a purple cassock; it wouldn't make me a bishop. Let's not replace reason, truth and reality with emotion, senses, and appearances.
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #282 on: October 28, 2015, 07:04:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Colombiere
    I don't know if it's been uploaded on here but Bishop Kirkland's Orthodox certicate of consecration is available online. It's on the same stationary and has the same address and phone number as Moran's ordination paper. Ilnyckyj's signature can be compaired on those two docuмents if anyone wants to.


    Can you give a link to this? I tried to find it without success.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #283 on: October 28, 2015, 07:30:03 PM »
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  • I found it now. Of course the signature doesn't match at all.

    What is the same is that not only is this the same stationery, but it's EXACTLY the same -- note the blotches on the upper left and right X's.

    Offline Colombiere

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #284 on: October 28, 2015, 09:16:56 PM »
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  • Do the official printed headings on both certificates say Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church? I google translated the printed part and between Serbian, Ukrainian, and Russian that's what it looks like to me. Can anybody read it? I would think the translation is what's underneath the heading on Bishop Kirkland's certificate. Right?