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Author Topic: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo  (Read 33978 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2020, 04:39:32 AM »
You're welcome.  

Unfortunately, we still don't know whether he's "returned to the Novus Ordo".  We all know that returning to the indult/diocesan TLM is still returning to the Novus Ordo.  So, the mere fact that he states that he went to a SSPX priest for confession (who was given such faculties by the Novus Ordo pope) and doesn't attend the Novus Ordo service doesn't mean he *hasn't* returned to the Novus Ordo.

Typical lawyer answer.
True, yet by disrediting the OP's anonymous' source he pretty much discredited the whole story is my take.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2020, 04:44:42 AM »
I'm not sede personally, but my guess would be the huge font, as well as lack of indentation and proper spacing between paragraphs. As one gets older it is very difficult to read. Even with progressive lenses.

 
Yes, this Sean, this.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2020, 05:15:34 AM »
You've got that backwards.  Vatican 2 is the novelty, the sede position of today is the application of tradition and doctrine.
No, this is definitely not true. St. Vincent of Lerins is the author of the "Vincentian Canon", AD 434, this is "the threefold test of Catholicity laid down by St Vincent of Lérins, namely ‘what has been believed everywhere, always, and by all’. By this triple test of ecuмenicity, antiquity, and consent, the Church is to differentiate between true and false tradition".  


Speaking about Liberalism in one of his sermons, Fr. Wathen sums up the Vincentian Canon, which is also applicable to sedeism....

"One of the saints, [St. Vincent of Lerins (died 445)]... made a statement concerning heresy and orthodoxy which I find both wonderfully intriguing as well as important.

He says that the true faith is that which has been believed by all the people all the time. [He is] speaking about all the faithful, all those who are in the Church, which is to say that any idea that has *not* been held as a part of Catholic doctrine through all the generations of the Church by the vast majority of the people, is not Catholic.

Which is to say that at any given time an idea can be widely held even by the vast majority of the people as is liberalism among Catholics today.  Also a heretical idea can be shown to have been held by a small group within the Church all through history or during a number of generations of history. But the true doctrine of the Church is that which has been held always by everyone".

According to St. Vincent of Lerins' Canon, sedeism being an "idea that has *not* been held as a part of Catholic doctrine through all the generations of the Church by the vast majority of the people, is not Catholic."




Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2020, 05:55:15 AM »
Yes, it’s time to call them out for what they are ... heretics.  I’ve called Stubborn out before, but Sean must be added to this list.  Now, with Meg it’s harder to say since she’s never posted anything resembling a rational thought on the subject ... or any subject really.  Oh, I forgot about Pax.  He’s a heretic also.

Look, nobody says you have to be sedevacantists.  But you must at least embrace a Catholic articulation of the Crisis such as can be found with Fr. Chazal.  Since you are Resistance supporters, why don’t you get behind him and abandon your heresies?


Although I agree with much of what you are saying, we MUST give R&R people a lot of slack. The confusion is so great and the lack of recourse to authority must make you pause and be PATIENT. I admit that I used to get extremely impatient with them, but I believe God has some reason for allowing them to block their reasoning abilities when it comes to this subject. Also, many of them have for years (and in some cases their whole life) been thoroughly imbued with the a priori belief that sedevacantism is wrong and evil. They simply can’t jump over that hurdle. It's a stumbling block.


About 20 years ago I met Father DeLallo and our conversation was very pleasant until I mentioned that Father Collins was a friend of mine. Boy, was that a mistake! His tone changed immediately and the first thing out of his mouth was: ‘Those 9 sedevacantist priests.....I knew what they were up to’. We debated for over an hour and he wouldn’t give me his blessing until I kept repeating (probably about 10 times): “JPII is a Catholic, but I'm not, right?“

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2020, 06:26:33 AM »
Oh, I give them a lot of slack and will not accuse them of formal heresy for that reason, but it’s time to stop mincing words.  Their articulation of R&R is heretical and makes them little different objectively than, say, Old Catholics, minus official Church condemnation.  Not every articulation of R&R is heretical, and +Lefebvre’s was not, but many are.

Fr. Chazal has given them a lifeline, to pull them out of this, and they need to take it.  If you carefully analyze +Lefebvre, you’ll see that his position lines up closely with Fr. Chazal’s.