Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd? (Read 440719 times)

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #1085 on:** May 17, 2018, 01:14:17 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 17, 2018, 11:59:15 AM

Yes, agree.
No!
The promise of infallibility does not extend to disciplinary/governmental aspects of the Church, only matters of Faith/Morals, as CLEARLY outlined in V1. Only when the pope fulfills the 4 conditions of V1, (one of which is that IT IS A MATTER OF FAITH AND MORALS, and the other is that the pope INTENDS TO TEACH CLEARLY ON SUCH A MATTER) is something infallible.

Matters of discipline are not infallible and never have been, or else infallibility would be meaningless, since disciplinary matters can be updated/changed. Infallibility only deals with TEACHINGS of the Faith/dogma. Discipline deals with govt rules, church law, and certain aspects of the liturgy. Discipline is decided by the church hierarchy and can err, magnificently and unfortunately, as history has shown.

Can you think of any instance prior to V2 where the Magisterium led the Church into error (even in some doctrine which was non-infallible)?

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #1086 on:** May 17, 2018, 01:58:59 PM »

There is no such thing as a non-infallible doctrine.

Church discipline is man-made, it has nothing to do with doctrine, hence it is never perfect and can change based on the time period or needs of the faithful. For example, the communion fast used to start at midnight the night before mass. Since mass times are not 'normal' due to the shortage of priests, the church changed the communion fast to 3 hrs then to 1, because She realized people could not fast all day if they were going to a noon mass or an evening one. Is that wrong or right? It's neither.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #1087 on:** May 17, 2018, 03:00:11 PM »

Infallibility has to do with faith/morals. It does not have to do with discipline. If you disagree, give me an example.

Stubborn · « **Reply #1088 on:** May 17, 2018, 03:05:18 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on May 17, 2018, 02:30:00 PM

Well, if you say so. I was waiting for your opinion on it before pronouncing it good and Catholic.

I emphasized what was correct in his post so as to demonstrate what was his obviously wrong understanding of what the Magisterium is. If the two (dogma and magisterium) go together and are inseparable, which is correct, then saying that only assumes that the Magisterium holds to dogma is to be taken for granted, is one heck of a confused thing for anyone to say - and they would never say such a confused thing if they had the correct understanding of the Magisterium.

As you can tell, the obvious truth as I presented it to him evades him as completely as it evades you, because in his very next post, he asks Pax if he knew of any other instance that "the Magisterium led the Church into error". His needle is as stuck as any sede.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #1089 on:** May 17, 2018, 08:13:40 PM »

All of your examples only deal with doctrine indirectly, and many times not at all, and they don’t TEACH anything, so 95% of the time, no, these are not infallible.

Quote

These universal disciplines are infallible but reformable.

Something infallible cannot be reformable. That’s impossible.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd? (Read 440719 times)

Clemens Maria

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Pax Vobis

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Stubborn

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Pax Vobis

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