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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 480903 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1090 on: May 18, 2018, 12:02:12 AM »
Infallibility has to do with faith/morals.  It does not have to do with discipline.  If you disagree, give me an example.

Mediator Dei, Pope Pius XII, 1947

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12media.htm


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46. On this subject We judge it Our duty to rectify an attitude with which you are doubtless familiar, Venerable Brethren. We refer to the error and fallacious reasoning of those who have claimed that the sacred liturgy is a kind of proving ground for the truths to be held of faith, meaning by this that the Church is obliged to declare such a doctrine sound when it is found to have produced fruits of piety and sanctity through the sacred rites of the liturgy, and to reject it otherwise. Hence the epigram, “Lex orandi, lex credendi” — the law for prayer is the law for faith.

47. But this is not what the Church teaches and enjoins. The worship she offers to God, all good and great, is a continuous profession of Catholic faith and a continuous exercise of hope and charity, as Augustine puts it tersely. “God is to be worshipped,” he says, “by faith, hope and charity.”[44] In the sacred liturgy we profess the Catholic faith explicitly and openly, not only by the celebration of the mysteries, and by offering the holy sacrifice and administering the sacraments, but also by saying or singing the credo or Symbol of the faith — it is indeed the sign and badge, as it were, of the Christian — along with other texts, and likewise by the reading of holy scripture, written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. The entire liturgy, therefore, has the Catholic faith for its content, inasmuch as it bears public witness to the faith of the Church.


Offline trad123

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1091 on: May 18, 2018, 12:42:05 AM »
Can you think of any instance prior to V2 where the Magisterium led the Church into error (even in some doctrine which was non-infallible)?


Now we're talking. Where has the Church given us evil, even in non-infallible circuмstances? There is no precedent.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1092 on: May 18, 2018, 08:32:29 AM »
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Upon confirmation by the Pope, a General Council's decrees are binding on all Catholics.
So what?  Doesn't mean they are infallible.

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It is true that discipline is man-made and can be changed. However, and this is very important, the Authority to enact discipline is not man-made, but given by God.
Irrelevant.

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Pope Gregory XVI, Quo graviora of 1833:
Irrelevant.
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Mediator Dei, Pope Pius XII, 1947
Irrelevant.


Infallibility ONLY covers TEACHINGS.  It only covers ARTICLES of FAITH.  This is specificially and precisely explained by V1.  You guys are taking a simple doctrine, infallibility, and complicating it.  

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1093 on: May 18, 2018, 09:22:19 AM »

Now we're talking. Where has the Church given us evil, even in non-infallible circuмstances? There is no precedent.

You must be joking. The Church led the flock into error in 1616 by defining a heliocentric reading of the Bible was formal heresy,

or

the Church led the flock into error in 1835 when popes allowed the flock to read and believe in a heliocentrism and that the Bible can be read with an interpretation contrary to the unanimous opinion of all the Fathers.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1094 on: May 18, 2018, 09:45:59 AM »
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  Pax declares Papal Teaching that the Church cannot permit anything to the detriment of souls "Irrelevant".  
It's irrelevant to the question at hand.