Trickster,
The Novus Ordo church follows Christ in word but has officially declared other religions to also be from God and also to contain the means of salvation. See Lumen Gentium 16 and almost all of the writings of John Paul II and the public statements of Pope Francis XVI. There are also the instances of post-Vatican II popes engaging in public worship with other religions (Assisi I, II, III and others) and there are previous popes who condemned this behavior for your everyday Catholic - much less a Pope - see Pope Pius IX's encyclical "Mortalium Animos")
Our Lord made it clear by saying that He was the Truth, the Way and the Light and that no one came to the Father except through Him. There are also dozens of quotes from the New Testament and Traditional Catholoc docuмents attesting to this belief. In fact, it is believed by Catholics (who embrace EENS) that there is no salvation outside of the Church. In short, it's a one way street. If you feel at this time in your spiritual development that "every body kinda has a grasp on the truth in their own way" then keep reading and studying. Pray on the issue. It's a one way street and not the Arizona heat which comes from all directions and goes in all directions.
Our Lord told the apostles that the god of the gentiles are devils, so what are we supposed to think when John Paul II writes of his respect for followers of these religions?
You're a bright guy, Bruce. You're well read and capable of thinking things through so if you say you see nothing to the contrary than I might think you're not playing straight with us. However, it could be that you've done very little reading on the topic so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Hey, study the issue as a complete agnostic. See if the pre-Vatican II church differs from the post-Vatican II church in it's "praxis" and in it's prayers and in the approach toward other religions. Then look at the sociological data differences between post- and pre- for church attendance, family size, marriage data, and views on religion.
While studying the issue, visit pre- and post- churches for Mass. Talk to the priest as someone who is seeking. Ask the questions while you are there.
Hello Captain! I am not sure if I responded to this posting, so I will do now. It's interesting what you said because I am writing a reflection paper on a lecture given by Fr. Benedict Hughs CMRI, where he talks about why traditionalists believe Vatican itself is wrong and heresy. He covers seven areas in which the council is wrong and the basis for which to reject the novus ordo church.
I am writing the paper as I said, from the perspective of looking at what he is saying in relation to how traditional catholics can work with indigenous peoples in terms of conversion, etc. which is missing in the novus ordo and I find that the novus ordo is very surficial in terms of developing relationships with the Native AMerican and other indigenous peoples ... and this I have been feeling since 2005 or so...
I am aware of Assisi and Lumen Gentium having taken a few theology courses on the subject, but the interesting thing is that we did not cover how the teaching of Vatican have radically changed the chruch and that has to be a cause of concern for anyone, so I am a work in progress :cheers:
And on one final note, there is an SSPX parish in our Archdiocese and I have already connnected with the priest there who has offered to answer any questions I have, and I will be sending him a copy of my reflection paper....when I get it done, I will post the link on this forum so you will be able to look at it... but since it is my first paper, there are a lot of challenges to my thinking, to the paradigms that we learned, but that is a good thing...
Take care.
Bruce
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