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Author Topic: Why are people against the death penalty?  (Read 2505 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2024, 07:27:12 PM »
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  • .Interesting. So people actually are generally in favor of it. Then where did it go? Why don't we have it anymore?
    Well, that’s what this survey proposes.

    I asked my husband and he said (in brief) the lack of principles today is the cause of people opposing capital punishment.

    A civilised society demands the possibility of applying the death penalty where necessary.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #16 on: April 28, 2024, 09:31:20 PM »
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  • Well, that’s what this survey proposes.

    I asked my husband and he said (in brief) the lack of principles today is the cause of people opposing capital punishment.

    A civilised society demands the possibility of applying the death penalty where necessary.
    My husband says the same thing.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #17 on: April 28, 2024, 10:11:21 PM »
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  • I asked my husband and he said (in brief) the lack of principles today is the cause of people opposing capital punishment.

    A civilised society demands the possibility of applying the death penalty where necessary.
    .

    I dunno. My point in my main post was that capital punishment is not the result of intellectual principles but is a basic human instinct. That's why I don't understand where it has gone.

    I also took pains to explain that it has always existed both in civilized and savage societies -- in fact, in every human society in human history before a couple of centuries ago. So I don't think it's really a question of civilization versus savagery.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #18 on: April 28, 2024, 10:55:16 PM »
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  • .

    I dunno. My point in my main post was that capital punishment is not the result of intellectual principles but is a basic human instinct. That's why I don't understand where it has gone.

    I also took pains to explain that it has always existed both in civilized and savage societies -- in fact, in every human society in human history before a couple of centuries ago. So I don't think it's really a question of civilization versus savagery.
    He didn’t, and I don’t, mean intellectual principles. We mean moral principles. All men have moral principles. It is part of the natural law. Some choose to abandon them. Even convicted criminals know basic moral principles. 

    I am not sure how you would define “a savage society”. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
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    Offline Bataar

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #19 on: April 29, 2024, 11:19:53 AM »
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  • I think the biggest reason most "normal" people are against it is the concern that an innocent person might be found guilty and be put to death. 


    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #20 on: April 29, 2024, 11:37:18 AM »
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  • Many of these issues point to women's suffrage here in the US.  Once women had the right to vote here in the US, everything went downhill from there, including the election of politicians who are anti-death penalty.

    Women tend to be more solidly anti-death penalty than men.  The logic follows thus:  All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder.  I have had quite few liberal Catholics tell me, "The death penalty is murder."  Not true!  The definition of murder is, "The intentional taking of an innocent human life."  The far majority of the death row inmates are not innocent, and should the truth be known, many of those on death row who might be innocent of their alleged crimes, should be put to death for the crimes which they were never charged for.     

    I remember the Clinton years, and quite a few women told me they voted for Billy Boy because he was cute.  This is insane, but when we look at the numbers of women in America who voted Clinton, there is probably a lot of truth in this.  He is a smooth talker and he looks good, let us vote for him.   
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #21 on: April 29, 2024, 01:45:51 PM »
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  • Many of these issues point to women's suffrage here in the US.  Once women had the right to vote here in the US, everything went downhill from there, including the election of politicians who are anti-death penalty.

    Women tend to be more solidly anti-death penalty than men.  The logic follows thus:  All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder.  I have had quite few liberal Catholics tell me, "The death penalty is murder."  Not true!  The definition of murder is, "The intentional taking of an innocent human life."  The far majority of the death row inmates are not innocent, and should the truth be known, many of those on death row who might be innocent of their alleged crimes, should be put to death for the crimes which they were never charged for.   

    I remember the Clinton years, and quite a few women told me they voted for Billy Boy because he was cute.  This is insane, but when we look at the numbers of women in America who voted Clinton, there is probably a lot of truth in this.  He is a smooth talker and he looks good, let us vote for him. 
    The US was heavily protestant during the suffrage movements.  What did the death penalty do in Catholic countries?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #22 on: April 29, 2024, 03:14:48 PM »
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  • Yes Gray2023, America was predominantly Protestant at the time of women's suffrage, but the question should be, Did Catholic countries allow female suffrage too, and if so, did this fact affect their death penalty positions?  Every Catholic country in Europe had the death penalty, England, Spain, France, Italy, Germany (Bavaria), etc.  England did away with the death penalty in 1965, and allowed female suffrage in 1928.  This theme is a constant, allow the female vote and we open the door for effeminate judges, effeminate politicians, and effeminate policies.  And "no death penalty" is very effeminate. Today the death penalty is non-existent in Europe; there is no 2nd Amendment in Europe (excluding Switzerland).  Europe has lost the Faith. 

    Thirty years ago a Catholic girl here in my home city decided to write a newspaper piece about the horrors of bodily punishment.  I reminded her that our Lord hit people with a whip in the Gospel of St. John, and, of course God is in favor of capital punishment.  He allowed it in the Old Testament and said nothing in the New Testament about its abolition.  This girl followed her immature logic as a seventh grader, and I would bet that she is still doing so. 

    Here is a list of countries which have allowed female suffrage by year: http://archive.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm   
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    website: www.orestesbrownson.org. Rumble: rumble.com/user/Orestes76


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #23 on: April 29, 2024, 03:28:19 PM »
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  • While I do not oppose the death penalty for many crimes in principle, I truly wonder how much we can trust the judicial system...at least in the United States.  Over the past few years it seems that governments at every level--national, State, municipal, county, etc.--have shown that they are absolutely willing to falsify evidence in order to get the outcomes they desire.  While many police officers are honest, many have been shown to be corrupt.  Prosecutors, for the most part, don't prosecute crimes out of a sense of justice but, rather, for political reasons.  The corruption of laws demonstrates that there are many judges are willing to cut down every law necessary according to their ideological desires.  Any any prospective juror who may actually know any person involved in a case and know their honesty or lack thereof will be automatically dismissed from the case.

    If I don't think I can trust a public school principal to properly administer corporal punishment to children (and I can't), how can I trust other public servants to execute a convict?

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #24 on: April 29, 2024, 03:41:42 PM »
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  • Yes Gray2023, America was predominantly Protestant at the time of women's suffrage, but the question should be, Did Catholic countries allow female suffrage too, and if so, did this fact affect their death penalty positions?  Every Catholic country in Europe had the death penalty, England, Spain, France, Italy, Germany (Bavaria), etc.  England did away with the death penalty in 1965, and allowed female suffrage in 1928.  This theme is a constant, allow the female vote and we open the door for effeminate judges, effeminate politicians, and effeminate policies.  And "no death penalty" is very effeminate. Today the death penalty is non-existent in Europe; there is no 2nd Amendment in Europe (excluding Switzerland).  Europe has lost the Faith. 

    Thirty years ago a Catholic girl here in my home city decided to write a newspaper piece about the horrors of bodily punishment.  I reminded her that our Lord hit people with a whip in the Gospel of St. John, and, of course God is in favor of capital punishment.  He allowed it in the Old Testament and said nothing in the New Testament about its abolition.  This girl followed her immature logic as a seventh grader, and I would bet that she is still doing so. 

    Here is a list of countries which have allowed female suffrage by year: http://archive.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm 
    I think you have an interesting point.  The society has become effeminate. But is it because of the women (taking over), the men (letting them), both, or something else?  Maybe if we reestablish a good Catholic society these things would go back to the way God intended.  For now I guess we just have to muddle through this world with our strong Catholic principles.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #25 on: April 29, 2024, 10:23:55 PM »
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  • I think you have an interesting point.  The society has become effeminate. But is it because of the women (taking over), the men (letting them), both, or something else?  Maybe if we reestablish a good Catholic society these things would go back to the way God intended.  For now I guess we just have to muddle through this world with our strong Catholic principles.

    It was an orchestrated plan by the Jiu's and haters of Christian Societies.  It was a direct attack on the family unit because they knew that was the backbone of society. 

    They started by pulling men away from their homes and into industrial and factory type jobs instead of working at their homesteads and making productive property and family businesses, etc.

    Then with the orchestrated World Wars they started to get women into the workforce and pulled them away from the home.  Now with jobs co-ed there would always be occasions of sin and adultery which breaks family bonds.

    Then the current "EdJєωcation" system was set up and established to get the kids out of the home and brainwash kids with the anti-Christian garbage you see today.

    It was a gradual and purposeful dismantling of society, piecemeal to break family bonds so they can be owned by the state.  I believe it will be fixed someday with the Catholic Restoration but when that happens is unknown.


    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #26 on: April 30, 2024, 09:56:25 PM »
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  • Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

    This article may be of interest to you and the others in this thread: "The Death Penalty Abolition Movement and Modernism".

    To summarize its basic argument, the first nation in modern times to abolish the death penalty was Tuscany back in the late 1700s. It was done under the reign of Grand Duke Leopold II, who was also a enthusiastic patron of the heretical Synod of Pistoia. Both these acts sprang from his deeply liberal (in the "Enlightenment" sense) sentiments; thus religious and political modernism were intertwined, and we see the same story today.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #27 on: May 01, 2024, 09:37:02 AM »
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  • This article may be of interest to you and the others in this thread: "The Death Penalty Abolition Movement and Modernism".

    To summarize its basic argument, the first nation in modern times to abolish the death penalty was Tuscany back in the late 1700s. It was done under the reign of Grand Duke Leopold II, who was also a enthusiastic patron of the heretical Synod of Pistoia. Both these acts sprang from his deeply liberal (in the "Enlightenment" sense) sentiments; thus religious and political modernism were intertwined, and we see the same story today.
    .

    Interesting. This is a very good contribution to the discussion. So it comes from liberalism. That's not a surprise, I guess.

    That's an interesting website, too. Do you know who writes it?

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #28 on: May 01, 2024, 11:51:11 AM »
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  • .

    Interesting. This is a very good contribution to the discussion. So it comes from liberalism. That's not a surprise, I guess.

    That's an interesting website, too. Do you know who writes it?

    Thank you!

    Though of course it is important to understand how feminism and other modern errors have contributed to this problem, I think that we must look into its origins in order to truly analyze it.

    You can find out more about that website by visiting the thread here on CI named after it.

    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Why are people against the death penalty?
    « Reply #29 on: May 02, 2024, 08:08:51 AM »
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  • There is no dogmatic reason to oppose the death penalty, but there is an important practical reason to oppose the death penalty: .gov/.ZOG messes up… a lot!

    Here's a false accusation that—Thank God!—ended well.


    South Carolinian faced 115 years in prison until ATF admitted they got the wrong man
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