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Author Topic: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy  (Read 4654 times)

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Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 09:26:21 AM »
I'm curious to how Sedevacantists on this forum would respond to two of his claims/opinions that stuck out to me:

He also makes the claim towards the end that Sedevacantism is something that is "harmful" to the Church since their arguments are utilized by members of false religions to try to "disprove" the Papacy. How do sedevacantists respond to this?

Another claim he makes in his conclusion is that Sedevacantism will grow in numbers, and prove to be a serious challenge to the Novus Ordo Church, due to the overall superior Internet savvy of their movement, higher birth numbers, and the lack of the Newchurch providing serious apologetics against sede arguments. (Note: he talks about how this growth will continue "to the end of the century" presupposing that the Chastisement will not have happened)
What do sedes make of this?

Also, if anyone here has a better source about Archbishop Thuc, it would be appreciated.
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The arguments for sedevacantism are mostly taken from Bellarmine and his theology on the papacy. That is a manifestly contra-protestant theological tradition. So, as regards the first claim, I don't know what to say except that he's just wrong. 
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As to the second claim, I think he's probably right about more and more people doubting or outrighr denying (at least Francis's) claims. 

Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 10:28:01 AM »
The arguments for sedevacantism are mostly taken from Bellarmine and his theology on the papacy. That is a manifestly contra-protestant theological tradition.

Yes, true, but I think what he was getting at was not oppositional to St. Bellarmine or his theology, but the notion that laymen on their own accord would  use it subjectively/privately to declare the Holy See vacant.

Also often forgotten is that St. Bellarmine didn’t actually believe the situation of an heretical pope could ever arise, and his writing on the subject is therefore largely hypothetical (ie., Much like St. Thomas More’s “Utopia,” Bellarmine is discussing things he didn’t believe could happen, and giving his abstract thoughts for the sake of argument).

But would St. Bellarmine maintain his opinions in the real world when confronted with the conciliar papacies?

I wonder.

It also gets overlooked that St. Bellarmine’s opinion is one among several, and that the Church has not made it Her own.  This aggravates the rashness and boldness of those who would unilaterally declare the see empty.

And let’s not forget there is still an unsettled debate about what St. Bellarmine’s position really is (ie., Some say he still agreed with Cajetan/Jst/Suarez that the Church had to be involved in the process, at least so far as declaring the fact of the heresy, but opposed the aforementioned writers only insofar as they believed a second judgment of the Church was necessary that Christ had deposed their pope).

But the common sede rendition has it that at any time a layman thinks a pope has committed heresy, the see becomes empty.

It is difficult to believe Bellarmine would invent a doctrine so ruinous to Church unity (particularly over the course of three generations and seven papacies, and counting), and it is in this sense that the allegation of Protestantism is made (not against Bellarmine, but against those who wield and misapply him).


Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 11:09:41 AM »


I did a long interview with the Youtuber Classical Theist on my experience as a Sedevacantist and my current views.  
I watched the video as well. Helps me to understand where you're coming from on all of this, thank you for posting. I also found it helpful in clearing up a lot of things about where the various sede groups came from and their positions are, even though I disagree with the conclusions made on Vatican II by yourself and the others in later into the interview. Don't take my OP as me saying that I would like for you to become a Sedevacantist again. 

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Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 12:22:05 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odz1fgTk0JA


I did a long interview with the Youtuber Classical Theist on my experience as a Sedevacantist and my current views.  
I only listened to a few minutes, at 3:35 you commented: "...until then, you had kind of this theory of papal positivism, where God would directly prevent anything remotely coming from there, basically the Holy Ghost would protect at all times even material [heresy] from happening....." - Fr. Fenton taught pretty much this same theory as though it is a dogma or teaching of the Church.

In your initial post, you said: "I am a former Sedevacantist who accepts Vatican II."

I wonder how much of a roll, if any, this theory in particular played in your decision to leave tradition to accept V2. 





Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 09:41:40 PM »


There are few sources for Thuc. I want to learn more. It sucks.

I would read his autobiography, which is out there on the internet.  It gives you a much different picture of +Thuc than you'll get from his detractors.
I remember that Lad posted the link to +Thuc’s autobiography in some other thread about him. I tried searching for it again on CI, but I couldn’t find it. But, after some searching on the Internet, I found it here: http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=180&artikel_id=1920