Author Topic: Various Responses to the Crisis (Read 3035 times)

2Vermont · « **on:** November 28, 2013, 07:52:34 AM »

I am still trying to come to grips with the various responses to the crisis and what makes the most sense to me. Could you all help me out here?

I'd like to see this thread be a place where all possible responses are explained. I think many of us are not solidly in one camp (although we definitely lean a certain way). I also think the responses include much more than just the SV and sedeplenist POV's. At least it seems that way to me.

I would like to know why you think your response makes the most sense and how it will help bring about resolution down the road. Please don't take this opportunity to attack other views except to make valid comparisons.

Thank you.

soulguard · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2013, 08:15:33 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

I am still trying to come to grips with the various responses to the crisis and what makes the most sense to me. Could you all help me out here?

I'd like to see this thread be a place where all possible responses are explained. I think many of us are not solidly in one camp (although we definitely lean a certain way). I also think the responses include much more than just the SV and sedeplenist POV's. At least it seems that way to me.

I would like to know why you think your response makes the most sense and how it will help bring about resolution down the road. Please don't take this opportunity to attack other views except to make valid comparisons.

Thank you.

I hold that Francis and all of the Vatican 2 popes lost their office because of heresy, because I believe that a heretic cannot hold office in the church that he is not a member of.

I blame Vatican 2 on everything, and blame freemasons for Vatican 2.

I think the new ordination rites are valid because in the ancient church they were not as complex as they were before V2, and still were valid.

The resolution I believe is inevitable will happen when a conciliar pope offends traditional Catholics past their ability to tolerate him, then many traditionalists will split from the Vatican and eventually a new and true pope would be chosen to lead us. If all the traditionalists broke away right now, we would have this crisis fixed within 5 years. True bishops electing a true pope, justified by the usurpation of the upper hierarchy by heretics and freemasonic infiltrators and atheistic agents.

Surely it takes more than a spiritual consecration of heretics to office to paralyse the church. If everyone realised that traditional Catholics are the only Catholics and that the church is effectively paralysed by the leadership of heretics then the downfall of Catholicism would be averted. Until then, the belief that the Vatican is the true authority whom all things must serve is KILLING US. It has assimilated the FSSP, it will assimilate the SSPX, and it will assimilate the SSPX resistance, all because they recognised non-Catholics as having a right to rule over them.

You said this thread is not for debate but I wonder what other people think about how it should be fixed. I would like to see a few ideas.

Malleus 01 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2013, 08:45:10 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

I am still trying to come to grips with the various responses to the crisis and what makes the most sense to me. Could you all help me out here?

I'd like to see this thread be a place where all possible responses are explained. I think many of us are not solidly in one camp (although we definitely lean a certain way). I also think the responses include much more than just the SV and sedeplenist POV's. At least it seems that way to me.

I would like to know why you think your response makes the most sense and how it will help bring about resolution down the road. Please don't take this opportunity to attack other views except to make valid comparisons.

Thank you.[/quote

In my view the battle is less about a tangible human response with action in the world that one day will lead to a resolution and more about The Spiritual battle between good and evil. So while we all argue about which way is best and squabble about what divides us , the enemy is served IMO.

In my view Archbishop Lefebvre chose his position BUT his response was always the same - Exhort Catholics to Pray the Rosary - Offer the true Latin Mass Suffer and sacrifice for the TRUTH. Does it really matter if he chose that platform in which to do battle with the spiritual forces of evil? And Sedevacantists choose a different platform but fight the same battle with the same Weaponry - the Sacraments and The Holy Rosary and the Traditional Catholic Faith?

My fellow Catholics , we are in a spiritual battle. Try to rise above the pettiness that divides us and instead Unite in common Catholic Practises we all agree on. There is one GOD and ONE Blessed Mother and they love all their children the same. Serve GOD. That is the answer.

One of the Marks of the Church is unity. If you are not working to Unite in PRACTISE what you purport to believe - and instead seek only to accentuate what divides us - whom are you serving? It is easy to find differences from one group to another but far more difficult to Unite.

The answer is to be Catholic To live Catholic to know love and serve GOD and to love your neighbor out of that love and fidelity for GOD. The answer is to Unite not divide. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand

Even if we all united as Catholics to pray the Holy Rosary at a specific hour in all traditional groups - something we all agree on - that would be a start.

So I guess in response to your question my response would be - to UNITE as CATHOLICS in the things that unite us and in doing so - let the Grace of Almighty GOD solve the issues that remain that divide us - the battle is spiritual -thus let us use spiritual means to combat it and set aside pride and human weakness that is proving to solve nothing.

Pax

LoverOfTradition · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2013, 10:40:56 AM »

I think this can only be solved through the direct intervention of God. How or when? I don't know. I pay attention to the Prophecies and what they have to say about it.

In the meantime, we must pray that God restores His Holy Church and soon.

Mabel · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2013, 11:25:47 AM »

Here is a list of the possible responses:
1. "Home Alone" Dogmatic
2. Stay-at-home, non-dogmatic
3. Selectively "Home Alone" (Gerry Matatics, Hutton Gibson)
4. Sent Priests only, those ordained by Lefebvre directly are included
5. Sent priest, preferred
6. Sedevacantists
*I would classify all the above as Sedevacantists but these are some of the difference within SVism

7. Guerdarianism, Cassicacuм Thesis
8. Gertrudians
* quasi-sedevacantists

9. Recognize and Ignore
* practical sedevacantists, but sedeplenists

10. "I like the Latin Mass and old traditions"
11. FSSP and like groups
12. Indult/Motu Crowd
* sedeplenists that follow some or most of what comes out of Rome, some compromise, sometimes against their will

13. Conservative Novus Ordo
14. Typical Novus Ordoite
15. Invested Novus Ordoite, "No problems here, everything is great"
16. Easter Lillies and Poinsettas
17. Completely lapsed Catholics