Author Topic: Seeking a valid Traditional Catholic Mass....Are there any out there? (Read 19964 times)

curioustrad · « **Reply #50 on:** September 05, 2014, 10:08:35 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Quote from: curioustrad (Sep 05, 2014, 5:10 pm)
Sacred Heart under +Montelongo uses the pre-'55 and accepts Francis as Pope [....]

Anyone who actually reads <orlando-sacred-heart.org> (the customary "www." being optional) will see the 3 points that was the only text whose presentation verbatim was insisted on by Montelongo as pastor:
• Respectfully independent of the Diocese of Orlando.
• Roman Catholic in faith, morals, and practice.
• Recognizing the sovereignity of His Holiness Pope Francis.

Quote from: curioustrad (Sep 05, 2014, 5:36 pm)
Quote from: SeekerOfTruth (Sep 05, 2014, 2:41 pm)
[...] I believe, that Fr. Montelongo is connected to the independent Tampa chapel. So that clears up what I forgot to ask the sede priest from the Tampa chapel.

After verifying - I believe the Tampa chapel is no longer connected with +Montelongo because the Tampa chapel is sedevacantist and +Montelongo is not. Why don't you call +Montelongo and find out from the horse's mouth ?

"Verifying"? Really? The description of Montelongo as "connected to the independent Tampa chapel" is a stronger statement than what's justified by available information. He has his--as its pastor--independent Orlando church to worry about. He also celebrates a monthly Mass for a really small group of traditional Catholics in North Florida. It's my impression that despite a clear difference on the issue of papal recognition, Montelongo does provide the Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel with ecclesiastical guidance and assistance--upon its clergy's requests. He makes no secret of that at the Orlando church.

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 05, 2014, 8:49 pm)
As far as I can tell +Montelongo is not a sede, but is not anti-sede.

I concur; that's also my clear impression.

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 05, 2014, 8:49 pm)
The Tampa folks were never openly sede until recently (many of their parishioners are not).

I'd assumed that the Tampa chapel is sedevacantist because that's what appears to be the official position of the Sociedad Religiosa San Luis Rey de Francia (SRSLRF[?], i.e.: Religious Society of King St. Louis [IX] of France) with whom the resident clergy of Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel are either merely affiliated, or are actual members (I claim no special knowledge of that chapel, nor have I ever set foot in it, but that's what I tentatively concluded from my surfing of the Web--which in this instance hasn't been deep, being hindered by my inability to read Spanish).

I know the situation personally. Tampa asked + Montelongo to consecrate their church. He did. Almost immediately afterwards the connection was severed because the Tampa chapel is sede.

+ Montelongo has been in Orlando since about 1999. The chapel holds no official position as far as membership is concerned on the papacy. They hold an occupant. they don't push it nor do they push sedevacantists away.

That's all there is to it.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #51 on:** September 05, 2014, 10:48:50 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Quote from: AlligatorDicax
Quote from: curioustrad (Sep 05, 2014, 5:10 pm)
Sacred Heart under +Montelongo uses the pre-'55 and accepts Francis as Pope [....]

Anyone who actually reads <orlando-sacred-heart.org> (the customary "www." being optional) will see the 3 points that was the only text whose presentation verbatim was insisted on by Montelongo as pastor:
• Respectfully independent of the Diocese of Orlando.
• Roman Catholic in faith, morals, and practice.
• Recognizing the sovereignity of His Holiness Pope Francis.

Quote from: curioustrad (Sep 05, 2014, 5:36 pm)
Quote from: SeekerOfTruth (Sep 05, 2014, 2:41 pm)
[...] I believe, that Fr. Montelongo is connected to the independent Tampa chapel. So that clears up what I forgot to ask the sede priest from the Tampa chapel.

After verifying - I believe the Tampa chapel is no longer connected with +Montelongo because the Tampa chapel is sedevacantist and +Montelongo is not. Why don't you call +Montelongo and find out from the horse's mouth ?

"Verifying"? Really? The description of Montelongo as "connected to the independent Tampa chapel" is a stronger statement than what's justified by available information. He has his--as its pastor--independent Orlando church to worry about. He also celebrates a monthly Mass for a really small group of traditional Catholics in North Florida. It's my impression that despite a clear difference on the issue of papal recognition, Montelongo does provide the Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel with ecclesiastical guidance and assistance--upon its clergy's requests. He makes no secret of that at the Orlando church.

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 05, 2014, 8:49 pm)
As far as I can tell +Montelongo is not a sede, but is not anti-sede.

I concur; that's also my clear impression.

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 05, 2014, 8:49 pm)
The Tampa folks were never openly sede until recently (many of their parishioners are not).

I'd assumed that the Tampa chapel is sedevacantist because that's what appears to be the official position of the Sociedad Religiosa San Luis Rey de Francia (SRSLRF[?], i.e.: Religious Society of King St. Louis [IX] of France) with whom the resident clergy of Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel are either merely affiliated, or are actual members (I claim no special knowledge of that chapel, nor have I ever set foot in it, but that's what I tentatively concluded from my surfing of the Web--which in this instance hasn't been deep, being hindered by my inability to read Spanish).

I know the situation personally. Tampa asked + Montelongo to consecrate their church. He did. Almost immediately afterwards the connection was severed because the Tampa chapel is sede.

+ Montelongo has been in Orlando since about 1999. The chapel holds no official position as far as membership is concerned on the papacy. They hold an occupant. they don't push it nor do they push sedevacantists away.

That's all there is to it.

Good summary.
Also

Quote

IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 05, 2014, 8:49 pm) said:
As far as I can tell +Montelongo is not a sede, but is not anti-sede.

I concur; that's also my clear impression.

ditto. I can tell you that he IS struggling mightily with Francis.

SeekerOfTruth · « **Reply #52 on:** September 06, 2014, 01:31:05 AM »

curioustrad and ALL members,

BTW, I am not an enemy infiltrator. And yes I do live in St. Pete. As for my statement about living between Tampa and Orlando, I probably should have said Tampa Bay area, but I wrote what I wrote specifically because I did not want to give my exact location out because I myself do not trust the Modernists that might be on this site. There are at least 2 people that I know from the NO circles I run in, that I think might just be troublemakers who are trying to undermine my search for answers with all sorts of veiled threats and silly responses to evidence that I present. Before I joined this site I also read posts by some posters who are suspicious of other posters being NO spies and NO troublemakers. So I chose to hide my true location. But I guess the Trad spies have been discussing me since curioustrad knows so much about me from "personal experience". Or perhaps curioustrad is a NO spy.

I guess I really should not care if the Modernists/NO people know where I am from because I should not fear the enemies of God, but I should only fear God Himself.

Regarding Montelongo: On the Tampa independent chapel website there is a photo of Bishop Montelongo who was there for a Confirmation. That is why I thought he was connected to the priests of that chapel. I guess I was incorrect.

ALSO, the priest I spoke with at Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel told me that he was from Argentina and that he held the Sedevacantist position, but does not require me to hold that position. He also apologized to me for the nasty Trads I have encountered in the past who lose their tempers when someone asks a simple legitimate question. I appreciated his kindness. He also explained how frustrated many Trads are and I understand now because there are friends and family who truly do not understand my current quest.

BTW, several years ago I knew a Latin Mass person who jumped down my throat over a simple logical question. It was a Holy Day, and that person wished me a "Happy Feast Day", and I pleasantly reciprocated the sentiment and thanked that person. Then out of curiosity I asked where that person had gone to Mass that day because I knew there was no Latin Mass for Holy Days at that time. At the time I was also not aware that many Trads think of the NO Mass as invalid. I knew they preferred the Latin Mass because of its reverence but I did not know about the Abomination of Desolation teaching or any of the theological reasons behind this belief and so I was surprised that this person did not attend a Mass for this Marian Holy Day and I mentioned that I had seen other Latin Mass folks at a NO Mass that day, so I wondered why this person had not gone at least to the NO to fulfill their obligation. Well this person became so NASTY and proceeded to yell at me at the top of their lungs. I was really taken aback. Truly it was UNACCEPTABLE behavior for a Catholic. This person could have given me a calm explanation of their position instead of yelling at me. They truly missed an opportunity to inform me and evangelize me. St. Paul warned us that without LOVE we are clanging gongs and Our Lord Jesus Christ told us to LOVE OUR ENEMIES as we love ourselves. This was not LOVE and from what I am seeing on this site people would rather lynch than love.

And as for meeting a priest in person, I will do so after I gather all the information I need, and after I pray about it. I am not going to run to just any chapel when I still do not know which Trads are truly Catholic or not. Two different Trad groups have told me that there are no valid Latin Masses in my area, thus I am trying to research all the Trad positions and ask Our Lady to guide me to the right place. I am also waiting for responses from other Trads that I have contacted.

SeekerOfTruth · « **Reply #53 on:** September 06, 2014, 01:51:38 AM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Quote from: GJC
For anyone who is interested in more information about the Church in Tampa send me a PM.

There is a good chance that I know Fr. Emilio Fattore better then anyone on CI.

Stay clear of the witchcraft, alien, vampire fan Louis Montelongo in Orlando.

This link is his facebook page, so it is public information.

https://www.facebook.com/frlouismontelongo

Just watch out for that the female "Troll" from St. Pete doesn't get in there and start a misinformation campaign along the lines we have already seen for other priests and chapels.

Fr. Fattore needs to know that the modernist diocese is actively gunning for Trads of all shades as per the orders of the modernist local Lynch man. It's been on his mind for at least 8 years and it galls him no end and with 2 or less years left in the job he has made it his priority to obliterate whatever he can before he goes. I can assure you this is entirely true and I once heard it straight from his horse's mouth !

ANYONE NOTICE THAT curioustrad is privy to Bishop Lynch's conversations that discuss "gunning for Trads of all shades" in the Tampa area??? curioustrad clearly says "I once heard it straight from his horse's mouth"

I would not trust a person who has that kind of access to Bp. Lynch. I doubt that Lynch would ever reveal that information to someone he does not trust.

curioustrad · « **Reply #54 on:** September 06, 2014, 06:15:07 AM »

Quote from: SeekerOfTruth

Quote from: curioustrad
Quote from: GJC
For anyone who is interested in more information about the Church in Tampa send me a PM.

There is a good chance that I know Fr. Emilio Fattore better then anyone on CI.

Stay clear of the witchcraft, alien, vampire fan Louis Montelongo in Orlando.

This link is his facebook page, so it is public information.

https://www.facebook.com/frlouismontelongo

Just watch out for that the female "Troll" from St. Pete doesn't get in there and start a misinformation campaign along the lines we have already seen for other priests and chapels.

Fr. Fattore needs to know that the modernist diocese is actively gunning for Trads of all shades as per the orders of the modernist local Lynch man. It's been on his mind for at least 8 years and it galls him no end and with 2 or less years left in the job he has made it his priority to obliterate whatever he can before he goes. I can assure you this is entirely true and I once heard it straight from his horse's mouth !

ANYONE NOTICE THAT curioustrad is privy to Bishop Lynch's conversations that discuss "gunning for Trads of all shades" in the Tampa area??? curioustrad clearly says "I once heard it straight from his horse's mouth"

I would not trust a person who has that kind of access to Bp. Lynch. I doubt that Lynch would ever reveal that information to someone he does not trust.

Thanks for the admission that the original statement was a falsehood. I can understand the desire to preserve anonymity, however, you were under no obligation to say where you lived at all. In Trad Catholic theology we are never permitted to tell a falsehood for any reason whatsoever, but Novus Ordo theology uses "the lesser of two evils theory" all the time. For me that's a bad sign already.

As for me being the Novus Ordo infiltrator:

1/ I didn't say I had personal access to Lynch but he used to have a radio show once accessible on the web and he has spoken and written on his blog (still accessible for all the world to read) of his utter disdain for the Trad Mass on numerous occasions.

2/ I know several priests both Novus Ordo (who said the Trad Mass) and Traditional and a few lay people who have spoken with Lynch about the Trad Mass and there he has been far more forthcoming about his disdain and intent to do what he can to stem the rise of Traditionalists in his diocese.

All I can say is that I know about what I write and I can honestly say you are off to a very bad start with falsehood and "shopping around'. In the Scriptures Jesus simply tells Nathaniel to "Come and see" i.e. go to a Mass not spread rumors and gossip about validity of priests and supposed conversations with them on the internet where WE can neither verify the truth of what you claim you heard, and THEY cannot defend themselves.

Scripture is also very clear that the enemy of Truth always works in the darkness, but we are told to "Walk in the light".