Author Topic: Seeking a valid Traditional Catholic Mass....Are there any out there? (Read 18796 times)

IllyricumSacrum · « **Reply #30 on:** September 04, 2014, 07:25:29 PM »

Lemme add a couple more...

7) won't go to the ECC, even for confession
8) + pg-13 + suddenly appears
9) op warms to + pg +
What else can I say ?[/quote]

curioustrad · « **Reply #31 on:** September 04, 2014, 09:31:19 PM »

I'm wondering with all of this if Trad Catholic communities are still being monitored by the Roman hierarchs as they used to do in the 70s or if they have sufficiently learnt to talk like Trads just enough to pass themselves off as them.

In our chapel we have a number of clearly Novus Ordo people "pew stuffing" (I call it) who don't know beans about the issues but they wear the long dresses and plunging necklines (the giveaway in more senses than 1).

Have we been too busy fighting each other over Kelly, Dolan, Pivarunas, Sanborn, Williamson, Pfeiffer and Fellay to not notice that the infiltrators are right there desperately hoping we won't see them for the NOM frauds they totally are. Fellay can't speak to admirers without the admirers being bussed in from somewhere. I wonder if this is becoming a universal phenomenon: "THe Enemy Within" ?

Dana · « **Reply #32 on:** September 04, 2014, 09:42:46 PM »

SeekerofTruth: The book you may have heard of is "The Resurrection of the Catholic Church," by Griff Ruby. I found it both fair and informative on the trad movement. Here's a link:

null

And, +PG+, the good Bishop's name is Pivarunas. Thank you.

curioustrad · « **Reply #33 on:** September 04, 2014, 09:47:47 PM »

Quote from: Dana

SeekerofTruth: The book you may have heard of is "The Resurrection of the Catholic Church," by Griff Ruby. I found it both fair and informative on the trad movement. Here's a link:

null

And, +PG+, the good Bishop's name is Pivarunas. Thank you.

It's full of factual errors - hardly a reliable source for dates and facts even if in "broad strokes" he does paint a picture of the Trad movement but heavily sede of course.

curioustrad · « **Reply #34 on:** September 04, 2014, 10:42:19 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Quote from: Dana
SeekerofTruth: The book you may have heard of is "The Resurrection of the Catholic Church," by Griff Ruby. I found it both fair and informative on the trad movement. Here's a link:

null

And, +PG+, the good Bishop's name is Pivarunas. Thank you.

It's full of factual errors - hardly a reliable source for dates and facts even if in "broad strokes" he does paint a picture of the Trad movement but heavily sede of course.

But it is an excellent primer for a Trad chapel infiltrator because it paints that Trad movement in broad strokes but fills it with so much factual error that the potential infiltrator can't tune that out since they do not know the people involved in the Trad movement. Thus it is an excellent source for spotting would be Trad infiltrators a mile off ! Must recommend that for good reading to the pew stuffers in our chapel.

Ursus · « **Reply #35 on:** September 04, 2014, 11:33:13 PM »

Quote from: Himagain

Quote from: SeekerOfTruth
About 10 years ago I met some Traditional Catholics in my area through prolife work, but they lacked charity and I was turned off from the Latin Mass because of their fanatical and judgmental ways. I have forgiven them, and I am now starting to believe that they were just poor and weak messengers, and I decided to take another look at the Traditional Catholic groups.

That seems to happen a good bit. I'm so glad you've heard His call over all the noise, and that you've found some thoughtful assistance here.

People take the firmness and insular ways of traditional Catholics as being uncharitable. The church is in crisis by the evil let in, and by weak men. If you're truly seeking the Truth and show you are genuine, people will take the time with you. Listen, learn.

Strong men and firm and direct. Too much confusion and sin is cause by ambiguity. If firmness and assertiveness bugs you, good. Let it rub off on you. We need more strong faithful men. Too many are weak, give into sin and lead others down the wrong paths.

Women and families are insular for good reason. The world is full of distractions and detractors that lead to sin.

Confession, pray rosary daily, attend mass weekly and often as possible. You will get discernment.

To be a man, is sacrifice.

PG · « **Reply #36 on:** September 04, 2014, 11:34:18 PM »

My previous link about cmri/pivarunis and their authority/obey bishops claim did not work. Here is the video link -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcDkR_sTYtQ&feature=youtu.be

If you listen starting at 3 minutes in and especially at minute 3:15, fr. Fouhy answers "yes" for Mark Pivarunis(who twice dodges answering the "authority in this crisis" question) that there is an alternative to a pope(Rome)/authority being the solution. Fr. Fouhy then goes on to say that these thuc bishops are the authority that needs to be obeyed(and pivarunis silently approves). This is known as plausible deniability(am I still making this stuff up?), and it is a standard thuc trad practice. Roots give life to the tree, and their roots are palmar de troya and old catholic/schuckardt aka pope hadrian VII. They will use words like "imperfect council", but that it is just another name for a conclave.

BTW, Fr. Fouhy was ordained in 1943. He informally left the priesthood in 1969 and got married in a civil service. His so-called wife then left him, and he began acting as a priest again. Here he is very friendly with the CMRI and mark pivarunas. He later became a Thuc bishop.

This is what you find in the thuc line. Scandal.

tdrev123 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 05, 2014, 12:51:01 AM »

Quote from: + PG +

This is what you find in the thuc line. Scandal.

What is your point? You talk about some video from 23 YEARS ago about something completely unrelated to this thread, you talk about the personal sin of a dead Priest who was affiliated with the CMRI.
What is your point?
Scandal? Because there are no scandals anywhere else? Are you saying that scandal makes priests invalid? What are you saying? What is your point? Why are you saying these things?

SeekerOfTruth · « **Reply #38 on:** September 05, 2014, 11:50:36 AM »

Quote from: Dana

SeekerofTruth: The book you may have heard of is "The Resurrection of the Catholic Church," by Griff Ruby. I found it both fair and informative on the trad movement. Here's a link:

null

And, +PG+, the good Bishop's name is Pivarunas. Thank you.

Hi Dana,

Thanks for your help. It was the Griff Ruby book that my friend mentioned. The link did not come through but I will look it up.

SeekerOfTruth · « **Reply #39 on:** September 05, 2014, 01:37:22 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 4, 2014, 8:57 am)
You seem to be ahead of the game, SeekerofTruth. [....]  Have you looked into Sacred Heart Traditional Chapel in Orlando?

Whether one types the phrase "orlando traditional catholic", or "traditional catholic orlando", into an Internet search engine, whether it's the privacy-hostile <www.google.com>, or the privacy-conserving <ixquick.com/>, the first nonadvertising result is <orlando-sacred-heart.org> (the customary "www." being optional). That's exactly the Web site you'd want to find.

The church provides a remarkably extensive slate of Masses and devotions (I've been told that the Missale Romanum is a 1948 edition). A link to its regular "SCHEDULE" is in the middle section of the menu-stripe on the Web site's main page, just below the name-plate. The header content below the name-plate provides not only the church's address, but also (for the directionally challenged) its latitude & longitude.

As for apostolic succession:
Pastor Louis Montelongo was ordained to the Catholic priesthood, according to the traditional rite, by independent Bp. Timothy Hennebery (R.I.P. June 2012).
Asst. Pastor Jonathan Derrington was ordained to the Catholic priesthood, according to the traditional rite, by independent Bp. Patrick Taylor (for whose valid succession through Bp. Thuc, Fr. Rama Coomaraswamy specifically cited confirmation by Fr. Malachi Martin's highly placed sources).

Thanks Alligator for the info.

SeekerOfTruth · « **Reply #40 on:** September 05, 2014, 01:41:05 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 4, 2014, 8:57 am)
You seem to be ahead of the game, SeekerofTruth. [....]  Have you looked into Sacred Heart Traditional Chapel in Orlando?

Whether one types the phrase "orlando traditional catholic", or "traditional catholic orlando", into an Internet search engine, whether it's the privacy-hostile <www.google.com>, or the privacy-conserving <ixquick.com/>, the first nonadvertising result is <orlando-sacred-heart.org> (the customary "www." being optional). That's exactly the Web site you'd want to find.

The church provides a remarkably extensive slate of Masses and devotions (I've been told that the Missale Romanum is a 1948 edition). A link to its regular "SCHEDULE" is in the middle section of the menu-stripe on the Web site's main page, just below the name-plate. The header content below the name-plate provides not only the church's address, but also (for the directionally challenged) its latitude & longitude.

As for apostolic succession:
Pastor Louis Montelongo was ordained to the Catholic priesthood, according to the traditional rite, by independent Bp. Timothy Hennebery (R.I.P. June 2012).
Asst. Pastor Jonathan Derrington was ordained to the Catholic priesthood, according to the traditional rite, by independent Bp. Patrick Taylor (for whose valid succession through Bp. Thuc, Fr. Rama Coomaraswamy specifically cited confirmation by Fr. Malachi Martin's highly placed sources).

AlligatorD,

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe, that Fr. Montelongo is connected to the independent Tampa chapel. So that clears up what I forgot to ask the sede priest from the Tampa chapel.

SeekerOfTruth · « **Reply #41 on:** September 05, 2014, 02:42:44 PM »

I found it odd what the British Trad priest in Spring Hill told me. If I recall correctly he said he was formerly a sede but because of a teaching on perpetual succession he has since come to believe that the Seat is not vacant and that he has to offer the Mass in union with Francis and the local bishop because of this belief. And yet he is not trying to join them because there is a spiritual necessity to provide the pre-1955 Mass. Unless I misunderstood him, this is what I think he was telling me.

curioustrad · « **Reply #42 on:** September 05, 2014, 04:10:47 PM »

Sacred Heart under + Montelongo uses the pre -'55 and accepts Francis as Pope so do many independents and even FSSP, the Institute of Christ the King (not every priest and of course they won't say this publicly). It's only generally in ex-SSPX circles that the pre-'55 is associated with sedevacantism.

curioustrad · « **Reply #43 on:** September 05, 2014, 04:36:01 PM »

Quote from: SeekerOfTruth

Quote from: AlligatorDicax
Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum (Sep 4, 2014, 8:57 am)
You seem to be ahead of the game, SeekerofTruth. [....]  Have you looked into Sacred Heart Traditional Chapel in Orlando?

Whether one types the phrase "orlando traditional catholic", or "traditional catholic orlando", into an Internet search engine, whether it's the privacy-hostile <www.google.com>, or the privacy-conserving <ixquick.com/>, the first nonadvertising result is <orlando-sacred-heart.org> (the customary "www." being optional). That's exactly the Web site you'd want to find.

The church provides a remarkably extensive slate of Masses and devotions (I've been told that the Missale Romanum is a 1948 edition). A link to its regular "SCHEDULE" is in the middle section of the menu-stripe on the Web site's main page, just below the name-plate. The header content below the name-plate provides not only the church's address, but also (for the directionally challenged) its latitude & longitude.

As for apostolic succession:
Pastor Louis Montelongo was ordained to the Catholic priesthood, according to the traditional rite, by independent Bp. Timothy Hennebery (R.I.P. June 2012).
Asst. Pastor Jonathan Derrington was ordained to the Catholic priesthood, according to the traditional rite, by independent Bp. Patrick Taylor (for whose valid succession through Bp. Thuc, Fr. Rama Coomaraswamy specifically cited confirmation by Fr. Malachi Martin's highly placed sources).

AlligatorD,

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe, that Fr. Montelongo is connected to the independent Tampa chapel. So that clears up what I forgot to ask the sede priest from the Tampa chapel.

A-lynching we shall go...

After verifying - I believe the Tampa chapel is no longer connected with + Montelongo because the Tampa chapel is sedevacantist and + Montelongo is not. Why don't you call + Montelongo and find out from the horse's mouth ?

curioustrad · « **Reply #44 on:** September 05, 2014, 04:41:04 PM »

Quote from: SeekerOfTruth

I found it odd what the British Trad priest in Spring Hill told me. If I recall correctly he said he was formerly a sede but because of a teaching on perpetual succession he has since come to believe that the Seat is not vacant and that he has to offer the Mass in union with Francis and the local bishop because of this belief. And yet he is not trying to join them because there is a spiritual necessity to provide the pre-1955 Mass. Unless I misunderstood him, this is what I think he was telling me.

Another Lynch job: why don't you call him and ask him ?

I find it "odd" that we are subjected to rumors and falsehoods.

+ Montelongo has nothing to do with Tampa and Fr. Wright doesn't have anything to do with St. Petersburg either. What game are you up to ? You keep asking for a "valid" and "Catholic" Mass but you turn down all offers and continue to question credentials.

Can't you Trads see the game this person is up to ?

Geography question for all: Where is St. Petersburg in relation to Tampa and Orlando ?